Brooklyn Law School (41K) vs. St. John's (Full) Forum

[hephaestus]

Fordham at sticker, however, is a terrible idea. Though a 167+ could get some money.

[romothesavior]

Like I said earlier, room and board is not an factor, I'm within commuting distance to either of these schools. If I was to retake the LSAT in June and score >166, what would the chances be of getting accepted off the wait list at Fordham? I realize that June is late in the application process and Fordham's seats will probably already be filled.

Id take the scholarship at Brooklyn over sticker at Fordham any day of the week. Fordham is stingy and overrated. Not worth the cost.

Neither of these schools is good but they're relatively cheap, so not awful options. Retake is TCR but I guess BLS if you're gonna be stubborn.

[kryptix]

Like I said earlier, room and board is not an factor, I'm within commuting distance to either of these schools. If I was to retake the LSAT in June and score >166, what would the chances be of getting accepted off the wait list at Fordham? I realize that June is late in the application process and Fordham's seats will probably already be filled.

Id take the scholarship at Brooklyn over sticker at Fordham any day of the week. Fordham is stingy and overrated. Not worth the cost.

Neither of these schools is good but they're relatively cheap, so not awful options. Retake is TCR but I guess BLS if you're gonna be stubborn.

Try for Fordham evening with a job with tuition reimbursement

Dingbat is right though, I know several people (class 2014) with SA positions who were around median. I think overall ~25% got biglaw (or market paying midlaw). Then again there's law review and EIC of minor journals with nothing...

[somewhatwayward]

I'm currently waitlisted at Fordham. 3.52 overall GPA, 4.0 GPA in the last two and a half years of college.

If you can get a 166+ you'll have good chance of getting in

+1. Fordham is the lowest ranked school you should attend in NY. (Even then, you're taking a big gamble... you'll have to finish in the top 5 or 10%20%-30% to make it worth your while.)

Fixed (and arguably still conservative)

Dingbat is right though, I know several people (class 2014) with SA positions who were around median. I think overall ~25% got biglaw (or market paying midlaw). Then again there's law review and EIC of minor journals with nothing...

Where are you getting this 25% figure? Hiring was generally down for SAs this summer. I remember a lot of people in the Fordham OCI thread in the top 15-25% getting desperate toward the end (a million posts of 'has anyone heard from [X firm that takes 4 total SAs that interviewed me at OCI two months ago]?'). It could still be 25% if some median peeps were getting it and these hapless top 15% people were left in the cold.

Regardless, while dingbat will come at me with his fancy arguments, it is foolish to pay sticker for Fordham (in fact, I'd like to conduct a poll of knowledgeable TLSers about this question bc I'm pretty certain I'm in the majority - I mean, who would pay 250K for a 20-30% chance of a good outcome?). Thus, OP, unless Fordham comes at you with some serious money, stick with Brooklyn. Forget the JD/MBA, though....Baruch is not that prestigious, and it is basically impossible to get an in-house job straight from school regardless of whether you have a JD/MBA. You need to go by way of big law. Your chances at big law from Brooklyn are very low. If you really want in-house, you need to retake and reapply.

[pwnyc127]

Thank you for your opinions. I'm negotiating with the admissions office at Brooklyn for an increased scholarship (using Cardozo as leverage) and waiting on FAFSA. Hopefully I won't have to pay any tuition. So even if I don't make biglaw I won't be one of those poor fu*kers stuck under a mountain of debt with no way to pay it off.

[kryptix]

If you can get a 166+ you'll have good chance of getting in

+1. Fordham is the lowest ranked school you should attend in NY. (Even then, you're taking a big gamble... you'll have to finish in the top 5 or 10%20%-30% to make it worth your while.)

Fixed (and arguably still conservative)

Dingbat is right though, I know several people (class 2014) with SA positions who were around median. I think overall ~25% got biglaw (or market paying midlaw). Then again there's law review and EIC of minor journals with nothing...

Where are you getting this 25% figure? Hiring was generally down for SAs this summer. I remember a lot of people in the Fordham OCI thread in the top 15-25% getting desperate toward the end (a million posts of 'has anyone heard from [X firm that takes 4 total SAs that interviewed me at OCI two months ago]?'). It could still be 25% if some median peeps were getting it and these hapless top 15% people were left in the cold.

Regardless, while dingbat will come at me with his fancy arguments, it is foolish to pay sticker for Fordham (in fact, I'd like to conduct a poll of knowledgeable TLSers about this question bc I'm pretty certain I'm in the majority - I mean, who would pay 250K for a 20-30% chance of a good outcome?). Thus, OP, unless Fordham comes at you with some serious money, stick with Brooklyn. Forget the JD/MBA, though....Baruch is not that prestigious, and it is basically impossible to get an in-house job straight from school regardless of whether you have a JD/MBA. You need to go by way of big law. Your chances at big law from Brooklyn are very low. If you really want in-house, you need to retake and reapply.

For the 25% I'm basing it on last years numbers and anecdotally based on what I have seen around my class this year. Yes a bunch of people between 1/3 and median got jobs including myself, I think ~1/2 the evening class got an SA position and half of the ones who didn't weren't looking. Take that with a grain of salt though because like 4 people were patent agents going in with pretty much guaranteed jobs already (if you can get Ropes to take you on as a Patent Agent and put you through law school that's a pretty good deal).

However, there is some risk to going to Fordham, I definitely know people on LR and people who are EIC of other journals who didn't get anything. I just think your odds are a bit better than BK. I would not go to Fordham though unless I was making enough working to cover all but a bit of tuition (<$75-80k graduation debt).

[pwnyc127]

No matter where one goes to law school it will always be competitive; the highest ranked in each class will always have the best job opportunities. The difference between a top 10% graduate at Brooklyn and a top 10% graduate at Fordham are minimal at best. If the student does not graduate in the top 10% of the class, chances at BigLaw are drastically reduced anyway and will depend more on networking, contacts from within the firm, references, and prior work/ internship experience than anything else.

Sometimes its not about what you know, what matters is who you know.

[kryptix]

No matter where one goes to law school it will always be competitive; the highest ranked in each class will always have the best job opportunities. The difference between a top 10% graduate at Brooklyn and a top 10% graduate at Fordham are minimal at best. If the student does not graduate in the top 10% of the class, chances at BigLaw are drastically reduced anyway and will depend more on networking, contacts from within the firm, references, and prior work/ internship experience than anything else.

Sometimes its not about what you know, what matters is who you know.

Personally don't know anyone in law and I'm closer to median than top 10% and I got Biglaw from Fordham, know 2-3 others in the same situation so there's your difference between Brooklyn and Fordham, one gives you a chance the other your better off dropping out after 1L if your grades aren't stellar...