Berkeley V. Notre Dame (consider the facts)!! Forum

[bernaldiaz]

Do you have W.E.? If so look to Northwestern if you want lay prestige. If your family is paying for LS (or you're a former lottery winner) then just go wherever will make you happy. Anyone within the "Law" world knows Cal > ND but people in the business world might not because Notre Dame has an elite undergrad business school so they may assume it's similar for Law School.

Bar none, Notre Dame along with Duke are among the most overrated schools in the entire country. UT-Austin should get a lot more attention than those two schools. Besides Richard Nixon, I cannot easily think of any other graduate from Duke that has accomplished anything of significance in this country. All Duke should be known for is producing a bunch of underperforming scrubs in the NBA. I would take Berkeley in a second.

Yeah, I agree but it's likely due to the disconnect between those schools undergraduate strength (very difficult to get in, need top grades and SAT/ACT score) but are not quite as good in terms of professional and graduate programs. Few other schools like this. Think Rice, WashUSTL, Emory).

Eh, Duke has pretty solid grad programs compared to ND. The law school is way better, Fuqua is still a real strong b-school, and they actually do some legit research. The Rice/WUSTL/Emory comparison doesn't really hold either because I don't think those undergrad schools (outside of their regions, anyways) have nearly as strong of a rep as ND. I think that leaves NDLS as having far and away the most inflated lay prestige because of the rep of the undergrad.

[bizzybone1313]

WTF is with the (non-joking) anti-Duke trolling? And how is UT a better law school? Employment statistics say otherwise.

As for the OP, since he/she wants to go into politics, retake until you get into Harvard.

UT Law Notable Alumni:

Robert B. Anderson—United States Secretary of Treasury
William R. Archer—United States Representative from Texas (1971–2001) Chairman of House Ways and Means Committee
James Baker—former Secretary of State; former United States Secretary of Treasury; former White House Chief of Staff
Paul Begala—political consultant, commentator and former advisor to President Bill Clinton
Lloyd Bentsen—former Secretary of the Treasury and United States Senator; former Chair of US Senate Committee on Finance; former candidate for US Vice President.
John B. Connally, Jr.—former Governor of Texas, former Secretary of the Navy, former Secretary of the Treasury
Tom Connally—former United States Senator from Texas
Gustavo C. Garcia, Carlos Cadena, James DeAnda - Attorneys for landmark 1950's civil rights case Hernandez v. Texas, which determined that Hispanics have Equal Protection under the 14th Amendment
Kay Bailey Hutchison—senior United States Senator from Texas
Federico Peña—former Secretary of Transportation and Secretary of Energy; former Mayor of Denver
Morris Sheppard - U.S. Senator, author of the Eighteenth Amendment
Robert Schwarz Strauss—former United States Ambassador to Russia; former United States Trade Representative; Former Chair of the Democratic National Committee
Kristen Silverberg—U.S. Ambassador to the European Union
Morris Sheppard—former United States Senator from Texas
Sarah Weddington—represented Jane Roe in the landmark Supreme Court case Roe v. Wade
Bill White—former Mayor of the City of Houston

There are a bunch of more people, but I just chose the most prominent ones.

UT has like twice the number of people graduating every year (although I don't know if historically that has always been true). Plus I've never heard of almost any of these people. Plus who cares?

A lot of those people are pretty prominent-- the point is Duke is overrated.

[20130312]

A lot of those people are pretty prominent-- the point is Duke is overrated.

[Tom Joad]

I love how bizzybone is obsessed with notable alumni as if it matters in the least.

[BigZuck]

WTF is with the (non-joking) anti-Duke trolling? And how is UT a better law school? Employment statistics say otherwise.

As for the OP, since he/she wants to go into politics, retake until you get into Harvard.

UT Law Notable Alumni:

Robert B. Anderson—United States Secretary of Treasury
William R. Archer—United States Representative from Texas (1971–2001) Chairman of House Ways and Means Committee
James Baker—former Secretary of State; former United States Secretary of Treasury; former White House Chief of Staff
Paul Begala—political consultant, commentator and former advisor to President Bill Clinton
Lloyd Bentsen—former Secretary of the Treasury and United States Senator; former Chair of US Senate Committee on Finance; former candidate for US Vice President.
John B. Connally, Jr.—former Governor of Texas, former Secretary of the Navy, former Secretary of the Treasury
Tom Connally—former United States Senator from Texas
Gustavo C. Garcia, Carlos Cadena, James DeAnda - Attorneys for landmark 1950's civil rights case Hernandez v. Texas, which determined that Hispanics have Equal Protection under the 14th Amendment
Kay Bailey Hutchison—senior United States Senator from Texas
Federico Peña—former Secretary of Transportation and Secretary of Energy; former Mayor of Denver
Morris Sheppard - U.S. Senator, author of the Eighteenth Amendment
Robert Schwarz Strauss—former United States Ambassador to Russia; former United States Trade Representative; Former Chair of the Democratic National Committee
Kristen Silverberg—U.S. Ambassador to the European Union
Morris Sheppard—former United States Senator from Texas
Sarah Weddington—represented Jane Roe in the landmark Supreme Court case Roe v. Wade
Bill White—former Mayor of the City of Houston

There are a bunch of more people, but I just chose the most prominent ones.

UT has like twice the number of people graduating every year (although I don't know if historically that has always been true). Plus I've never heard of almost any of these people. Plus who cares?

A lot of those people are pretty prominent-- the point is Duke is overrated.

And what would you do if someone posted the list of famous Duke alumni? At least I've actually heard of Richard Nixon, Kenneth Starr, and Julia Louis-Dreyfus.

Anyway weird flame, stop it.

[BigZuck]

I love how bizzybone is obsessed with notable alumni as if it matters in the least.

I would take Zach Galicianakis' uncle over those fools every day and twice on Sunday.

[John_rizzy_rawls]

As for the OP, since he/she wants to go into politics, retake until you get into Harvard.

TITCR.

If you're just a prestige woman-who-has-sex-for-money, which you clearly are, then to the lay person neither Berkeley or ND will mean a damn.

Either:

A) Go to the best school where you want to run to establish connections there starting now - the best option if you actually want politics as connections and home-grown persona will outshine "fancy degree from the North" in home-cooking type politics.

B) Go to an Ivy (HY, Columbia, Cornell, Penn), or Stanford (same level of prestige as Ivies - my boomer parents think it's an Ivy not realizing that's only a sports conference distinction).

Other than that, no one cares.

[bluepenguin]

B) Go to an Ivy (HY, Columbia, Cornell, Penn), or Stanford (same level of prestige as Ivies - my boomer parents think it's an Ivy not realizing that's only a sports conference distinction).

Does Ivy grow in Palo Alto?

[ndirish2010]

WTF is this thread?

[twenty]

WTF is this thread?

+1

Most people in South Dakota have no idea that places like U Chicago, Mich are top “law” schools, but they know of ND and Berk.

How could anyone, even in a super-rural town in SD, think that Berkeley > UChi?

[ndirish2010]

People in rural South Dakota don't know or care about Berkeley or Chicago. They have no use for either in their daily lives.

[dingbat]

People in rural South Dakota have no use for their daily lives.

[ndirish2010]

You can ridicule my post, or people in South Dakota, all you want, but don't misquote me. I would never say that. I'm not one of the coastal elites that looks down on people with different cultures.

[HBBJohnStamos]

People in rural South Dakota have no use for their daily lives.

[nebula666]

If I wanted to impress someone in rural South Dakota, I would speak English.

[20130312]

People in rural South Dakota have no use for their daily lives.

[Eva_Bates]

For the OP,

Okay, to be frank I just don't see a point of this, as you haven't even said that you've been accepted to any of the schools being discussed (And these two schools seem an especially odd choice)... But I'll play along.

If you are dead set on planning to live and work in South Dakota for the rest of your life, and one day getting into politics, Notre Dame is the right choice. That being said, I sure hope you are involved in something political-adjacent right now, and not just "Daddy can spent the 60K/70K a year on law school, and I was popular in HS/Uni.". If there's a chance - lets say, 10% is the bar to pass - that you would want to live Elsewhere, go with Berkeley. (However, if that Elsewhere is also in the South/Conservative USA, amend that bar to 20%. Visit Berkeley and you'll see what I mean). Also: have you thought of Duke? Higher prestige for the "law" types, yet a great name for your first TV ad.

[guinness1547]

.

[lmsf]

One thing to consider is will you be unhappy as a conservative at a pretty liberal school like Berkeley? If you're miserable, there's a good chance that it'll impact your grades, and doing well at ND can help more than doing badly at Berkeley. If you can, you should try to visit both campuses. There are going to be people of all backgrounds at both schools (Boalt's student groups website lists a few potentially conservative groups: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/227.htm).

[BigZuck]

One thing to consider is will you be unhappy as a conservative at a pretty liberal school like Berkeley? If you're miserable, there's a good chance that it'll impact your grades, and doing well at ND can help more than doing badly at Berkeley. If you can, you should try to visit both campuses. There are going to be people of all backgrounds at both schools (Boalt's student groups website lists a few potentially conservative groups: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/227.htm).

People who say this stuff do realize that the Free Speech Movement started because of a conservative group on campus right?

Berkeley the city is liberal and the campus might be more liberal than most large universities (although that is like saying a 9 is hotter than an 8. Technically true, but both are pretty hot) but conservatives would do just fine there I imagine. I doubt being a conservative at Berkeley would be any more of a harrowing experience than being a conservative at most other top law schools.

[BigZuck]

One thing to consider is will you be unhappy as a conservative at a pretty liberal school like Berkeley? If you're miserable, there's a good chance that it'll impact your grades, and doing well at ND can help more than doing badly at Berkeley. If you can, you should try to visit both campuses. There are going to be people of all backgrounds at both schools (Boalt's student groups website lists a few potentially conservative groups: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/227.htm).

People who say this stuff do realize that the Free Speech Movement started in part because of a conservative group on campus right?

Berkeley the city is liberal and the campus might be more liberal than most large universities (although that is like saying a 9 is hotter than an 8. Technically true, but both are pretty hot) but conservatives would do just fine there I imagine. I doubt being a conservative at Berkeley would be any more of a harrowing experience than being a conservative at most other top law schools.

[WhiskeynCoke]

So let me get this straight... The choice is between Berkeley and Notre Dame, cost is not an issue, you already have a job lined up, and your primary concern is national prestige... WTF?? How is this even a question for you?

Dude if you cant realize that one of the best schools in the country has more "prestige" than some midwest football school, you might be beyond help. The fact that people in South Dakota (where you'll be working for a few months until you realize you want to kill yourself) have heard of Notre Dame's football team may be the most retarded justification I've ever heard for going to a lower ranked law school in a far shittier location.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

So let me get this straight... The choice is between Berkeley and Notre Dame, cost is not an issue, you already have a job lined up, and your primary concern is national prestige... WTF?? How is this even a question for you?

Dude if you cant realize that one of the best schools in the country has more "prestige" than some midwest football school, you might be beyond help. The fact that people in South Dakota (where you'll be working for a few months until you realize you want to kill yourself) have heard of Notre Dame's football team may be the most retarded justification I've ever heard for going to a lower ranked law school in a far shittier location.

You don't like rural mid-west areas, so you assume everyone doesn't or shouldn't like rural mid-west areas.

[Micdiddy]

I'm not one of the coastal elites that looks down on people with different cultures.

No one else is going to call this one out? Read, read, read this sentence. See the problem?

[ndirish2010]

I'm not one of the coastal elites that looks down on people with different cultures.

No one else is going to call this one out? Read, read, read this sentence. See the problem?

The problem is actually that people assume that NOBODY could want to live in rural areas. In fact, people in rural areas are generally good people who just want to be left alone by big-city folks who think they're superior. I'm actually from the NYC area. People generally have a superiority complex.