Full Ride to a Tier 2 School Worth It? Forum

[rad lulz]

This doesn't really answer my question. If I do manage to be in the top 33%, am I in a good place?

rinkrat19: how do you figure 30k/year for living expenses?

Ability to get a job doesn't correlate perfectly to class rank, especially for non-biglaw jobs (and people from St. Johns largely aren't getting biglaw jerbz).

[rinkrat19]

Look, nolongermissing, you're not going to get any validation of a decision to go to St. John's here. People like you either stubbornly refuse to admit reality, or are eventually convinced by the overwhelming evidence that it's a terrible idea. (TLS honestly celebrates when someone is saved. It's like rescuing a drowning puppy.) Sometimes it takes DAYS, but it's 1L exam time and I don't have that kind of time.

[nolongermissing]

Yeah, but St. John's would be free for me. So that doesn't make sense

Not after you lose your scholarship after first year.

I understand the odds are against my favor when it comes to retaining the scholarship. Since I would have to maintain a top 40% status and all. But, let's just pretend for a second that I am, in fact, capable. Would you grant me your blessing to go study***** law in New York sans debt (cause I can afford COL without loans) and the 16.5% chance I could be making $84,000

[rad lulz]

Yeah, but St. John's would be free for me. So that doesn't make sense

Not after you lose your scholarship after first year.

I understand the odds are against my favor when it comes to retaining the scholarship. Since I would have to maintain a top 40% status and all. But, let's just pretend for a second that I am, in fact, capable. Would you grant me your blessing to go practice law in New York sans debt (cause I can afford COL without loans) and the 16.5% chance I could be making $84,000

No.

[rinkrat19]

Yeah, but St. John's would be free for me. So that doesn't make sense

Not after you lose your scholarship after first year.

I understand the odds are against my favor when it comes to retaining the scholarship. Since I would have to maintain a top 40% status and all. But, let's just pretend for a second that I am, in fact, capable. Would you grant me your blessing to go practice law in New York sans debt (cause I can afford COL without loans) and the 16.5% chance I could be making $84,000

No. Better idea to retake the LSAT and/or get a solid scholarship to a regional school that ISN'T in a market totally dominated by far superior schools.

[Coveted]

Yeah, but St. John's would be free for me. So that doesn't make sense

Not after you lose your scholarship after first year.

I understand the odds are against my favor when it comes to retaining the scholarship. Since I would have to maintain a top 40% status and all. But, let's just pretend for a second that I am, in fact, capable. Would you grant me your blessing to go practice law in New York sans debt (cause I can afford COL without loans) and the 16.5% chance I could be making $84,000

No. Better idea to retake the LSAT and/or get a solid scholarship to a regional school that ISN'T in a market totally dominated by far superior schools.

Would you consider Rutgers the main supplier for NJ? Or would you consider NJ over saturated by NY?

[nolongermissing]

Yeah, but St. John's would be free for me. So that doesn't make sense

Not after you lose your scholarship after first year.

I understand the odds are against my favor when it comes to retaining the scholarship. Since I would have to maintain a top 40% status and all. But, let's just pretend for a second that I am, in fact, capable. Would you grant me your blessing to go practice law in New York sans debt (cause I can afford COL without loans) and the 16.5% chance I could be making $84,000

No.

lol fine. What should I do then? I'm graduating from a Big 10 school with a double major in English and History and somewhere around a 3.33 GPA. Let's say studying law at St. John's doesn't yield any fruitful job opportunities, would sacrificing 3 years of my life learning about the law, metting people, experiencing New York really be that crippling of a career move?

[nolongermissing]

Yeah, but St. John's would be free for me. So that doesn't make sense

Not after you lose your scholarship after first year.

I understand the odds are against my favor when it comes to retaining the scholarship. Since I would have to maintain a top 40% status and all. But, let's just pretend for a second that I am, in fact, capable. Would you grant me your blessing to go practice law in New York sans debt (cause I can afford COL without loans) and the 16.5% chance I could be making $84,000

No. Better idea to retake the LSAT and/or get a solid scholarship to a regional school that ISN'T in a market totally dominated by far superior schools.

Alright, thanks fo the advice

[rinkrat19]

Would you consider Rutgers the main supplier for NJ? Or would you consider NJ over saturated by NY?

Ehhh...both? NJ is somewhat, but not entirely, insulated from the NYC market.

There are other people who know more about the NYC/NJ area than me, though.

[Nova]

lol fine. What should I do then?

Get a job and retake.

[Coveted]

Would you consider Rutgers the main supplier for NJ? Or would you consider NJ over saturated by NY?

Ehhh...both? NJ is somewhat, but not entirely, insulated from the NYC market.

There are other people who know more about the NYC/NJ area than me, though.

Yea I feel ya, that's why I still have my reservations as well.

[jkpolk]

lol fine. What should I do then?

Get a job and retake.

[Nova]

Would you consider Rutgers the main supplier for NJ? Or would you consider NJ over saturated by NY?

Ehhh...both? NJ is somewhat, but not entirely, insulated from the NYC market.

There are other people who know more about the NYC/NJ area than me, though.

Yea I feel ya, that's why I still have my reservations as well.

Paging InGoodFaith

[20130312]

lol these are personal details.

PM me for advice.

[Coveted]

Would you have done the same with a 15k scholarship? Or would you at least recommend it to someone else?

Again, commuting from home, instate tuition?

[20130312]

Might as well edit this one too.

[Coveted]

I appreciate the advice. I am not one for the city and I am not interested in big law, as long as I have a salary capable of supporting a family.

If I can head into Rutgers with a decent scholly, minimizing debt, I feel like I would be better off than going somewhere like W&L or BC with a small scholly or at sticker.

My only other option would be to retake and go to one of my dream schools like UVA or Cornell.

After doing my research, it seems like the only logical thing to do would be to attend Rutgers with a scholly.

[TheZoid]

Are these your stttips?

St. John's: top 40% to keep full; top 55% to keep 75%; top 65% to keep 55%. Bottom third loses scholly.

If so, dont go unless you have them removed. Theres a 1/3 chance youll be paying sticker for years 2 and 3, and that would REALLY suck.

Yeah, but I am confident that I can satisfy the stipulations

No offense, but you are 3.1/161, what makes you so confident that you will beat out most of your classmates?

ETA: a 16.5% chance of a decent job is not a good chance.

[BaiAilian2013]

lol fine. What should I do then? I'm graduating from a Big 10 school with a double major in English and History and somewhere around a 3.33 GPA. Let's say studying law at St. John's doesn't yield any fruitful job opportunities, would sacrificing 3 years of my life learning about the law, metting people, experiencing New York really be that crippling of a career move?

You won't just be meeting people (?!) and experiencing New York. You'll probably be incurring 6-figure debt. Debt is not an abstract concept. It means that every paycheck you earn for a very long time is significantly smaller. So unless you can count on some big paychecks, it's not a risk to take.

You don't know how you'll rank in the class. You really, really don't. I promise.

[moonman157]

lol fine. What should I do then? I'm graduating from a Big 10 school with a double major in English and History and somewhere around a 3.33 GPA. Let's say studying law at St. John's doesn't yield any fruitful job opportunities, would sacrificing 3 years of my life learning about the law, metting people, experiencing New York really be that crippling of a career move?

Yes, because in addition to sacrificing three years of your life and incurring a large amount of debt, you're making it harder to start a career in any other field. Employers are going to wonder 1) if you're going to leave their business to become a lawyer since that's what you really want to do and 2) if you wanted to be a lawyer enough to go to law school, why did you fail at that? What does that say about you as a potential employee?

And do not dismiss people when they tell you not to base your decision on the assumption that you'll be one of the lucky ones who graduates from St. John's with a job that allows you to pay off your debts. Everyone who enrolls there assumes this. Most of them will be wrong. I don't care how many people told you that you're good at arguing, you are not a special snowflake.

To answer your question of what you should do, retake the LSAT and get a high enough score to get into a law school that gives you at least a reasonable chance at becoming a lawyer.

[BarbellDreams]

I always tell 0L's the same story when I see things like "I KNOW I will be top x%":

In the summer between UG and LS my girlfriend told her mom its really difficult to find a good job or make a lot of money as an attorney if you're not top 10%/LR after your first year. Her mom responded "Well, I know MY girl is really smart and she will definitely be top 10%". I responded with "Thats nice, I'm sure all the other mothers say the exact same thing about their kids. 90% will be wrong though."

Get it through your head: No matter how smart you think you are, no matter how brilliant your legal analysis will be, no matter what you do, how many hours you prepare, or how you think you're the special snowflake that will not be affected by sleep deprivation and burnout you CANNOT (say it with me: CANNOT) guarantee ANY ranking, not even median. When all the journal rosters come out you're gonna be shocked by who made it and more importantly who DIDN'T make it.

[saintsfan200]

If dropping out after your first year, if you don't do well, is an acceptable outcome, then I don't see a problem with T2 and full ride.

[ddacey]

If you really want to go, why not try to get the stipulations removed. Try to put yourself in the best possible position to succeed.

But I think the consensus is right.

[timbs4339]

lol fine. What should I do then? I'm graduating from a Big 10 school with a double major in English and History and somewhere around a 3.33 GPA. Let's say studying law at St. John's doesn't yield any fruitful job opportunities, would sacrificing 3 years of my life learning about the law, metting people, experiencing New York really be that crippling of a career move?

You don't "meet people" in law school. Everyone else is in the same boat as you- hustling and striving to be employed coming out of the law school. Experiencing New York (lived there for four years) is overrated. It's a big city, like lots of other big cities, although safer than a lot of them.

That three years could be put towards an alternative job track or career that, while maybe not "prestigious" to the folks back home, might eventually lead to better possibilities. You can read about the law on your own time.

[Tuco Salamanca]

It sounds like you're going to go regardless, so just take this advice: if you lose your scholarship, drop out.