Michigan at sticker? Forum

[cahwc12]

A friend of mine actually did this at UT and left after 1L because he had a 3.0 and had no shot at the jobs he was looking for. He cut his losses and left with $40k in debt. Would you rather he have finished school with that 3.0, be out of the running for biglaw, clerkships and the like, struggle to find anything resembling a worthwhile legal job, and then wallow in $180k of non-dischargable debt?

How does 40k turn into 180k




I would pay for UT at sticker in-state and so I would presumably pay for Mich at sticker in-state.

But I also don't currently have a job that pays 45k so I didn't factor that in.

interest

[20130312]

A friend of mine actually did this at UT and left after 1L because he had a 3.0 and had no shot at the jobs he was looking for. He cut his losses and left with $40k in debt. Would you rather he have finished school with that 3.0, be out of the running for biglaw, clerkships and the like, struggle to find anything resembling a worthwhile legal job, and then wallow in $180k of non-dischargable debt?

How does 40k turn into 180k

interest

Err it would take 20 years for 40k to turn into 180k at 7.9% simple interest.

[sinfiery]

interest

138916.875 = 40kx1.075^3+40kx1.075^2+40kx1.075

so no

The difference in cost between Michigan in-state vs. out of state is actually only about $3000 a year/$9000 over four years, so I don't think it would make much of a difference (I mean, I know $9000 is a lot of money, but it's not a substantial impact on the tuition)... But for UT it's about a $16,000 a year difference! University of Florida is nearly a $20,000 difference per year. I wonder what's up with Michigan's in-state tuition?

ETA: UVA also has a relatively small difference at $5000 per year.

Good point, that does seem to add a definite sizable amount to the initial debt. Mich has better job prospects so that also needs to be accounted for, but at this point who knows if Id go for it

[skers]

Work for a year or two and save cash for law school. It'll still be there, you'll have a better resume, better experiences, and less debt.

[jenesaislaw]

I would pay for UT at sticker in-state and so I would presumably pay for Mich at sticker in-state.

The difference in cost between Michigan in-state vs. out of state is actually only about $3000 a year/$9000 over four years, so I don't think it would make much of a difference (I mean, I know $9000 is a lot of money, but it's not a substantial impact on the tuition)... But for UT it's about a $16,000 a year difference! University of Florida is nearly a $20,000 difference per year. I wonder what's up with Michigan's in-state tuition?

ETA: UVA also has a relatively small difference at $5000 per year.

Michigan and UVA (like UCLA and Berkeley and increasingly more schools) have significant autonomy from the state -- and this autonomy through state appropriations was done consciously to achieve the autonomy. This means they're much more like private schools than public schools, hence the minimal differences.

[cahwc12]

A friend of mine actually did this at UT and left after 1L because he had a 3.0 and had no shot at the jobs he was looking for. He cut his losses and left with $40k in debt. Would you rather he have finished school with that 3.0, be out of the running for biglaw, clerkships and the like, struggle to find anything resembling a worthwhile legal job, and then wallow in $180k of non-dischargable debt?

How does 40k turn into 180k

interest

Err it would take 20 years for 40k to turn into 180k at 7.9% simple interest.

If you leave after 1L and begin paying off 40K in loans instead of staying until 3L and getting 140k in loans (while 3 years of interest accrues), only to hope to begin making payments while more interest accrues.

I was referring to the idea of dropping out after 1L with only 40k rather than sticking it out for all 3 years with 1L grades that prevent him from biglaw no matter how he preforms 2L 3L.

[AbbeyRoadLaw]

I wouldn't.

Could've guessed that

[gnuwheels]

so you're in ED but haven't heard about money yet? I wouldn't be so sure that you're not gonna get any money, because Michigan does give money to its EDers, so you might want to wait and see.

But, as a general matter, and as a current Michigan student, I don't think michigan is worth sticker, especially compared to its peers or even lower (I know you're not asking that).

People "joke" or "exaggerate" a lot on this board that michigan's status as an elite school is declining, but after being here I think its fair to say that is reasonably true, at least in comparison to PVBNDC. If you're gonna take the risk at sticker at a school in the mid to low T14, michigan might be the worst one to do it at these days.*

*Unless you are from and want to work in Michigan

[patspats]

so you're in ED but haven't heard about money yet? I wouldn't be so sure that you're not gonna get any money, because Michigan does give money to its EDers, so you might want to wait and see.

But, as a general matter, and as a current Michigan student, I don't think michigan is worth sticker, especially compared to its peers or even lower (I know you're not asking that).

People "joke" or "exaggerate" a lot on this board that michigan's status as an elite school is declining, but after being here I think its fair to say that is reasonably true, at least in comparison to PVBNDC. If you're gonna take the risk at sticker at a school in the mid to low T14, michigan might be the worst one to do it at these days.*

*Unless you are from and want to work in Michigan

Thanks for this info! I am actually from Michigan and would like to work in Michigan/Chicago/Midwest. How would you say Michigan stacks up to Berkeley?

[BarbellDreams]

Just go to UIUC with a near full ride instead of Michigan at sticker if you wanna work in Chicago.

[FlightoftheEarls]

so you're in ED but haven't heard about money yet? I wouldn't be so sure that you're not gonna get any money, because Michigan does give money to its EDers, so you might want to wait and see.

But, as a general matter, and as a current Michigan student, I don't think michigan is worth sticker, especially compared to its peers or even lower (I know you're not asking that).

People "joke" or "exaggerate" a lot on this board that michigan's status as an elite school is declining, but after being here I think its fair to say that is reasonably true, at least in comparison to PVBNDC. If you're gonna take the risk at sticker at a school in the mid to low T14, michigan might be the worst one to do it at these days.*

*Unless you are from and want to work in Michigan

This is ridiculous, and false.

[dproduct]

so you're in ED but haven't heard about money yet? I wouldn't be so sure that you're not gonna get any money, because Michigan does give money to its EDers, so you might want to wait and see.

But, as a general matter, and as a current Michigan student, I don't think michigan is worth sticker, especially compared to its peers or even lower (I know you're not asking that).

People "joke" or "exaggerate" a lot on this board that michigan's status as an elite school is declining, but after being here I think its fair to say that is reasonably true, at least in comparison to PVBNDC. If you're gonna take the risk at sticker at a school in the mid to low T14, michigan might be the worst one to do it at these days.*

*Unless you are from and want to work in Michigan

This is ridiculous, and false.

[gnuwheels]

so you're in ED but haven't heard about money yet? I wouldn't be so sure that you're not gonna get any money, because Michigan does give money to its EDers, so you might want to wait and see.

But, as a general matter, and as a current Michigan student, I don't think michigan is worth sticker, especially compared to its peers or even lower (I know you're not asking that).

People "joke" or "exaggerate" a lot on this board that michigan's status as an elite school is declining, but after being here I think its fair to say that is reasonably true, at least in comparison to PVBNDC. If you're gonna take the risk at sticker at a school in the mid to low T14, michigan might be the worst one to do it at these days.*

*Unless you are from and want to work in Michigan

This is ridiculous, and false.

Might be a little bit of a broad generalization, but Mich is definitely having its problems, so I think the PSA is at least a little bit fair

[moneybagsphd]

so you're in ED but haven't heard about money yet? I wouldn't be so sure that you're not gonna get any money, because Michigan does give money to its EDers, so you might want to wait and see.

But, as a general matter, and as a current Michigan student, I don't think michigan is worth sticker, especially compared to its peers or even lower (I know you're not asking that).

People "joke" or "exaggerate" a lot on this board that michigan's status as an elite school is declining, but after being here I think its fair to say that is reasonably true, at least in comparison to PVBNDC. If you're gonna take the risk at sticker at a school in the mid to low T14, michigan might be the worst one to do it at these days.*

*Unless you are from and want to work in Michigan

This is ridiculous, and false.

[Eva_Bates]

A couple questions...

Any knowledge about Michigan's need-based aid? I mean, I assume very few people can service the sticker price by themselves, and that's what loans are for... But any knowledge about the criteria to get / chances of getting / amount possible for NEED aid?

And if anyone wants to elaborate more on why Michigan at sticker is a bad idea, PLEASE do!! I can see from the numbers that Michigan seems to be struggling, so it does worry me...

And is it true that those who have lower scores / 'barely' get in end up having a similar 'status' when it comes to grade distribution? (If so does that mean I should be headed to my 'safety' school to try to get into the top % of the class??)

Gracias!

[UnamSanctam]

so you're in ED but haven't heard about money yet? I wouldn't be so sure that you're not gonna get any money, because Michigan does give money to its EDers, so you might want to wait and see.

But, as a general matter, and as a current Michigan student, I don't think michigan is worth sticker, especially compared to its peers or even lower (I know you're not asking that).

People "joke" or "exaggerate" a lot on this board that michigan's status as an elite school is declining, but after being here I think its fair to say that is reasonably true, at least in comparison to PVBNDC. If you're gonna take the risk at sticker at a school in the mid to low T14, michigan might be the worst one to do it at these days.*

*Unless you are from and want to work in Michigan

Thanks for this info! I am actually from Michigan and would like to work in Michigan/Chicago/Midwest. How would you say Michigan stacks up to Berkeley?

lol go to Michigan if you're from Michigan and want to work in Michigan. BOALT won't be stronger.

[suralin]

A couple questions...

Any knowledge about Michigan's need-based aid? I mean, I assume very few people can service the sticker price by themselves, and that's what loans are for... But any knowledge about the criteria to get / chances of getting / amount possible for NEED aid?

And if anyone wants to elaborate more on why Michigan at sticker is a bad idea, PLEASE do!! I can see from the numbers that Michigan seems to be struggling, so it does worry me...

And is it true that those who have lower scores / 'barely' get in end up having a similar 'status' when it comes to grade distribution? (If so does that mean I should be headed to my 'safety' school to try to get into the top % of the class??)

Gracias!

I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of schools besides YHS do not give need-based aid; most of the money you'll get will come in the form of automatic scholarships largely based on how your numbers stack up to the median/75th numbers.

As for your last paragraph, just no. There is very little correlation between "barely getting in" (whatever that may mean) and ending up in the bottom of the class. Please do not do the bolded, unless you want to end up screwed. First, unless the safety school is literally in a different tier than the one you're considering, your numbers will not be that much better than those of your peers. Second, the improbable marginal increase in class rank is not worth the drop in employment outcomes.

[Eva_Bates]

A couple questions...

Any knowledge about Michigan's need-based aid? I mean, I assume very few people can service the sticker price by themselves, and that's what loans are for... But any knowledge about the criteria to get / chances of getting / amount possible for NEED aid?

And if anyone wants to elaborate more on why Michigan at sticker is a bad idea, PLEASE do!! I can see from the numbers that Michigan seems to be struggling, so it does worry me...

And is it true that those who have lower scores / 'barely' get in end up having a similar 'status' when it comes to grade distribution? (If so does that mean I should be headed to my 'safety' school to try to get into the top % of the class??)

Gracias!

I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of schools besides YHS do not give need-based aid; most of the money you'll get will come in the form of automatic scholarships largely based on how your numbers stack up to the median/75th numbers.

As for your last paragraph, just no. There is very little correlation between "barely getting in" (whatever that may mean) and ending up in the bottom of the class. Please do not do the bolded, unless you want to end up screwed. First, unless the safety school is literally in a different tier than the one you're considering, your numbers will not be that much better than those of your peers. Second, the improbable marginal increase in class rank is not worth the drop in employment outcomes.

THANK YOU!! (This is what happens when you start discussing going to law school with all of your parents' friends... And then get freaked out... They are well-meaning).

About the need-based aid: I ask because I actually saw it, recently, on Michigan's website. (It says they open applications for need aid in February). And I know that several of the UC schools also tout need-based aid as well. That's why I'm a little confused as to whether they actually give anything out. Has anyone received need-based aid, or know anyone who has?