PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY Forum

[nygrrrl]

I am lucky enough to have my parents helping me out as much as they possibly can, so I'd be coming out of CUNY with no debt, and Fordham with about -$80k.

Well, that's different.

Can you demonstrate actual interest in PI on your resume? What do you actually want to do?

If you say help people I'm going to kill you because that's a dumb answer.

Worthwhile PI is as hard or harder to get than biglaw jobs. They can be just as selective and prestige-whorey. If you want to be a public defender or something, then you're good. If you want high profile stuff, that's different.

A lot of law students enter with some vague notion of wanting to do public interest work, only to find out they don't like it because they don't like working with poors or there isn't enough money in it or whatever. How sure are you that's what you want to do? If you're even slightly unsure I'd take Fordham for 80K.

I literally laughed out loud at the bolded.
And I agree with this entire post.

[JCFindley]

Edited for overt doushebaggery on my part.

Carry on.

[romothesavior]

Not really sure you can be considered an 0L though since you have "Gotton out of the race before it was too late." So, if you aren't going to LS and you aren't a homeless recent grad why hang out in an LS forum? Just curious. I mean, since you aren't going to LS anymore shouldn't you be looking for an actual job by now? My guess is you were a prelaw major because that is always what you wanted to do and it impressed the freshmen girls and your frat brothers but then found out there is actually competition and risk involved and you got skeered really bad. I mean I can't say as I blame you, as scared little kids that overcompensate for such things by attempting to be arrogant elitists probably don't interview all that well and ya know, there are even Harvard grads that don't get jobs when they come across poorly in the interview. Of course, not much you can do with a prelaw degree besides hang out in LS forums and warn others now is there?

I like you JC, but this is a low and unnecessary blow. It's not like one has to go to law school to know it is a bad decision, and there are plenty of great posters on TLS who decided not to go.

[rickgrimes69]

Now, whether Fordham or ANY law school is worth today's tuition and the possible debt associated with it is in fact a valid debate. Personally, I prefer to have zero debt from LS but some debt or even a lot may be acceptable to others depending on the scenario.

Whether Fordham is worth sticker ITE is not a valid debate.

[Fletcher Reed]

.

[romothesavior]

It's not like one has to go to law school to know it is a bad decision, and there are plenty of great posters on TLS who decided not to go.

I understand your point, but it's sometimes difficult to accept advice from disgruntled law school applicant dropouts. I find it hard to ignore their righteous indignation. Perhaps a therapist would be able to assist some of them in moving forward in a more positive and healthy direction. Their behavior reminds me of that of an emotionally unstable man who cannot accept that his girlfriend rejected him. Imagine the “great” advice he’d have for her new boyfriend.

So who will you listen to then? The legion of disgruntled law students? The unemployed graduates? The law professors?

[sunynp]

It's not like one has to go to law school to know it is a bad decision, and there are plenty of great posters on TLS who decided not to go.

I understand your point, but it's sometimes difficult to accept advice from disgruntled law school applicant dropouts. I find it hard to ignore their righteous indignation. Perhaps a therapist would be able to assist some of them in moving forward in a more positive and healthy direction. Their behavior reminds me of that of an emotionally unstable man who cannot accept that his girlfriend rejected him. Imagine the “great” advice he’d have for her new boyfriend.

So who will you listen to then? The legion of disgruntled law students? The unemployed graduates? The law professors?

They don't want to listen to anyone who doesn't support their choice. People in the forum paying sticker for Fordham are going to defend their choices and attack those who disagree.

[JCFindley]

Not really sure you can be considered an 0L though since you have "Gotton out of the race before it was too late." So, if you aren't going to LS and you aren't a homeless recent grad why hang out in an LS forum? Just curious. I mean, since you aren't going to LS anymore shouldn't you be looking for an actual job by now? My guess is you were a prelaw major because that is always what you wanted to do and it impressed the freshmen girls and your frat brothers but then found out there is actually competition and risk involved and you got skeered really bad. I mean I can't say as I blame you, as scared little kids that overcompensate for such things by attempting to be arrogant elitists probably don't interview all that well and ya know, there are even Harvard grads that don't get jobs when they come across poorly in the interview. Of course, not much you can do with a prelaw degree besides hang out in LS forums and warn others now is there?

I like you JC, but this is a low and unnecessary blow. It's not like one has to go to law school to know it is a bad decision, and there are plenty of great posters on TLS who decided not to go.

Ya know, you're right. Every so often I get in a mood and just need someone to remind me that I can be a true A-hole at times. I stay on here to help others the way I was helped on here and not to feed my own ego or participate in the doushebagery that goes on at times.

Thanks.

[BlackOctober]

Now, whether Fordham or ANY law school is worth today's tuition and the possible debt associated with it is in fact a valid debate. Personally, I prefer to have zero debt from LS but some debt or even a lot may be acceptable to others depending on the scenario.

Whether Fordham is worth sticker ITE is not a valid debate.

In that case, would you say that CUNY is the more worthwhile option?

[BlackOctober]

It's not like one has to go to law school to know it is a bad decision, and there are plenty of great posters on TLS who decided not to go.

I understand your point, but it's sometimes difficult to accept advice from disgruntled law school applicant dropouts. I find it hard to ignore their righteous indignation. Perhaps a therapist would be able to assist some of them in moving forward in a more positive and healthy direction. Their behavior reminds me of that of an emotionally unstable man who cannot accept that his girlfriend rejected him. Imagine the “great” advice he’d have for her new boyfriend.

So who will you listen to then? The legion of disgruntled law students? The unemployed graduates? The law professors?

They don't want to listen to anyone who doesn't support their choice. People in the forum paying sticker for Fordham are going to defend their choices and attack those who disagree.

At first, I was so averse to paying full-tuition for Fordham, and I totally agree with this.

[BlackOctober]

Not really sure you can be considered an 0L though since you have "Gotton out of the race before it was too late." So, if you aren't going to LS and you aren't a homeless recent grad why hang out in an LS forum? Just curious. I mean, since you aren't going to LS anymore shouldn't you be looking for an actual job by now? My guess is you were a prelaw major because that is always what you wanted to do and it impressed the freshmen girls and your frat brothers but then found out there is actually competition and risk involved and you got skeered really bad. I mean I can't say as I blame you, as scared little kids that overcompensate for such things by attempting to be arrogant elitists probably don't interview all that well and ya know, there are even Harvard grads that don't get jobs when they come across poorly in the interview. Of course, not much you can do with a prelaw degree besides hang out in LS forums and warn others now is there?

I like you JC, but this is a low and unnecessary blow. It's not like one has to go to law school to know it is a bad decision, and there are plenty of great posters on TLS who decided not to go.

Ya know, you're right. Every so often I get in a mood and just need someone to remind me that I can be a true A-hole at times. I stay on here to help others the way I was helped on here and not to feed my own ego or participate in the doushebagery that goes on at times.

Thanks.

It's okay, JC! Everyone has their moments-- thanks for your honest opinions. Would you mind sharing why you chose Fordham, since I see you're also interested in PI?

[Lawst]

You obviously do not want to go to CUNY, and even if it's cheaper, then it's not going to be worth it to you in the long run. Have you gone to visit the school in person yet? It is not like other law schools at all, and for some that's the good part. For me last year, it was the death knell. Don't go to a school that you will hate, if that is the case here.

[BlackOctober]

Yeah, I've been to visit, and I can honestly say that the new and beautiful building is a total plus for me. Can you elaborate a little on how it was different from other law schools?

[Lawst]

Yeah, I've been to visit, and I can honestly say that the new and beautiful building is a total plus for me. Can you elaborate a little on how it was different from other law schools?

Oh, they finally did move over there? When I went, they were still housed in a former junior high building, and everything about it seemed more like a trade school than a law school. It was in the middle of nowhere in Queens and it seemed a little too informal for a school that while relatively inexpensive still wanted thousands of dollars from me for a law education. Also, it seems to be in danger every few years or so of possibly losing its ABA accreditation, which seems, uh, not good, (see link below).
Also keep in mind that it hasn't been around that long, so there's probably not a very strong alumni network in place, and there's no OCI at all. If you decide you want to work for a firm after all, you're probably out of luck. Maybe there's a CUNY student around who can set me straight on my judgments here, but as someone who seriously considered CUNY last year, I'm pitching in my 2 cents.

--LinkRemoved--

[JCFindley]

It's okay, JC! Everyone has their moments-- thanks for your honest opinions. Would you mind sharing why you chose Fordham, since I see you're also interested in PI?

The reason I usually stay out of threads about X LS costing $Y and is it worth it is I don't think ANY law school is worth going into huge debt to attend. What huge debt is though is somewhat of a debatable number. My general logic is IF you can service the amount of debt you will have with a job you can reasonably expect to get graduating in the middle of the pack then it is worth the risk. (Assumes that middle of the pack job is in fact the type of work you would like to do.)

I am a nontraditional applicant and don't have as much career time left to pay off debt though so my own personal rule was NO additional debt to attend LS. That limited my field of schools to choose from. It was further limited by my wife's preference to NYC both because she grew up there and because she has a job there so will be making money while I am in LS. This left basically two schools I was comfortable attending. Fordham and RU-N. (Dozo was close.)

Fordham actually feeds into a pretty varied field of jobs. They do have great PI programs even if most people seem to be focused on the big law possibilities upon graduation. CUNY IS a PI school and that is their niche. If you are 100% sure that is the direction you want to go then it is probably a better deal for the money. Fordham opens up other options and I would go so far as to say it is as good or better than CUNY for many PI areas. There are a LOT of good programs at Fordham to introduce you to and get experience in PI. Plus, if you change your mind AND do well enough at Fordham you will have options beyond PI.

Whether that additional 80K in debt to attend Fordham is the question you have to ask yourself though. Will the post graduation job landscape coming from Fordham allow you to service that debt in a job you like? Obviously if you go to CUNY and graduate debt free you can just move to the FL Keys and be a bartender if you don't find a job. That option is out with Fordham.

JC

[rickgrimes69]

Now, whether Fordham or ANY law school is worth today's tuition and the possible debt associated with it is in fact a valid debate. Personally, I prefer to have zero debt from LS but some debt or even a lot may be acceptable to others depending on the scenario.

Whether Fordham is worth sticker ITE is not a valid debate.

In that case, would you say that CUNY is the more worthwhile option?

If your goal is PI or bust, do CUNY because you don't lose anything but time if it doesn't pan out. If you want anything else, and if you're comfortable taking money from your folks, $80k for Fordham is not a bad deal, but maybe consider dropping out if you're below median.

[overunderachiever]

Go to Fordham. If PI was really your passion, you wouldn't have started this thread. Oh, and here are pics of the new building.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cunylawpho ... 5185/show/

[BlackOctober]

Go to Fordham. If PI was really your passion, you wouldn't have started this thread. Oh, and here are pics of the new building.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cunylawpho ... 5185/show/

To say that you are in no position to make such a conclusion is an understatement. Yes, the new building is beautiful--I've been there.

[flem]

You still haven't answered my question - do you have demonstrated PI experience on your resume?

[BlackOctober]

Some, but I am hoping to get much more while in school.

[flem]

Some, but I am hoping to get much more while in school.

Ehhhh

What kind of PI do you want to do?

[Asst. Principal Bone]

I think you should pick CUNY and stop being such a BITCH young man. Yoodolahewho...

[BlackOctober]

I think you should pick CUNY and stop being such a BITCH young man. Yoodolahewho...

Not a man. Care to share why?

[BlackOctober]

Some, but I am hoping to get much more while in school.

Ehhhh

What kind of PI do you want to do?

I'm not 100% sure--don't skewer me.

[flem]

I'm not 100% sure--don't skewer me.

I'm not trying to at all. But PI, especially worthwhile PI, is just as prestige-whorey as law firms are. Additionally, they are just as, if not more so, selective. That's the reason I ask about demonstrated interest by experience - "a little and I want to get more" isn't going to be good enough when you're going to be competing against people that have worked for years in non-profits, etc.

Unless you want to be a public defender, I think you're better off at Fordham for backup options, and at 80K it's a pretty good deal.