Berkeley vs. Georgetown Forum

[CanadianWolf]

First, calculate your total cost-of-attendance (COA) for each law school. If still interested in attending, contact Georgetown about your Berkeley acceptance. If no scholarship is offered, consider sitting out a year and reapplying. Also, ask Berkeley for money since you've already committed to Georgetown.

P.S. Please post the estimated total COA for each school.

P.P.S. With your numbers, you should have a financial back-up school.

[law2015]

GULC places worse than other schools in the T-14. This choice hinges on what is more important to you, a geographic location or better employment prospects.

[manofjustice]

Easy answer: would you rather practice law in DC (or maybe NYC) or LA?

[Voldemort]

Berkeley.

[Real Madrid]

Peer schools are peer, dooder.

Absolutely not. I love how people are using the phrase "peer schools are peer" as a magic talisman to try and pretend very real differences don't exist between schools. Georgetown has shitty placement, as evidenced by the schools' respective employment stats and the most recent NLJ placement data (which shows a 14% difference in biglaw placement). And if you're going to try to claim that that's all self-selection, lol just lol at the idea that fewer people self-select into PI from Berkeley than from GULC.

Thank you. If I hear "peer schools are peer" one more time to compare two schools with very different placement prospects I just might lose it.

[dannyde7]

Would love it if any Berkeley students are lurking and could post their experiences. Thanks everyone!

[jim-green]

Why do you say Bay Area handily beats DC for quality of life? The weather's not too bad in DC compared to Boston, and the museums, restaurants are terrific. I know DC well, hence asking.

The Bay Area handily beats DC for quality of life (this coming from a guy heading to DC after the bar).

[Real Madrid]

Why do you say Bay Area handily beats DC for quality of life? The weather's not too bad in DC compared to Boston, and the museums, restaurants are terrific. I know DC well, hence asking.

The Bay Area handily beats DC for quality of life (this coming from a guy heading to DC after the bar).

Haven't lived in either city, but having visited both I can see how most people would probably prefer to live in the Bay Area over DC. A few reasons:

1. People in DC tend to be there short-term, and thus it's much harder to make real friendships with people outside of school (people aren't gonna invest their time if that time is severely limited).

2. San Francisco is close to: Napa Valley, Muir Woods, Lake Tahoe, Santa Cruz, etc. If you get up early enough you could go hiking, skiing and surfing (at some of the best locations for each in the country, no less) in the same day.

3. The food and restaurant scene in SF is objectively better than the food in DC.

4. Weather is better in SF.

5. True or not (and I certainly got these vibes when visiting), SF has a reputation for being a laid-back city, whereas DC has a reputation for being, well, the opposite.

[Rotor]

Why do you say Bay Area handily beats DC for quality of life? The weather's not too bad in DC compared to Boston, and the museums, restaurants are terrific. I know DC well, hence asking.

The Bay Area handily beats DC for quality of life (this coming from a guy heading to DC after the bar).

Just because DC>Boston doesn't mean DC=Bay Area weather. And my assessment on QOL isn't just weather. It's the whole package. Real Madrid summed it up well, so I'll leave it at that.

I am not saying DC is bad--heck I'm moving back there. It's just the bay area is nearly ideal in my book.

[jim-green]

Why do you say Bay Area handily beats DC for quality of life? The weather's not too bad in DC compared to Boston, and the museums, restaurants are terrific. I know DC well, hence asking.

The Bay Area handily beats DC for quality of life (this coming from a guy heading to DC after the bar).

Just because DC>Boston doesn't mean DC=Bay Area weather. And my assessment on QOL isn't just weather. It's the whole package. Real Madrid summed it up well, so I'll leave it at that. I am not saying DC is bad--heck I'm moving back there. It's just the bay area is nearly ideal in my book.

Thanks, this sounds great, and I'll let my wife know! How come you're going to DC?

[worldtraveler]

I love it at Berkeley, and I think most people do like it. I don't know if the feeling is the same at Gtown or not, as I've never visited.

What is it that you want to do? Sounds like big law? If your heart is set on that, I would recommend Berkeley.

Is there a reason you aren't at least trying to visit Berkeley and see if you like the area when making your decision?

[PennBull]

IMHO, 644 people in a graduating class seems like a ridiculously high number for a law school.

GW graduates ~600ish a year as well. And then people wonder why it's so hard to break DC.

Not helping is American University's ~500ish.

[Rotor]

Thanks, this sounds great, and I'll let my wife know! How come you're going to DC?

Focused on SF & DC during OCI. Best offer came from DC.

[jim-green]

I love it at Berkeley, and I think most people do like it. I don't know if the feeling is the same at Gtown or not, as I've never visited. What is it that you want to do? Sounds like big law? If your heart is set on that, I would recommend Berkeley. Is there a reason you aren't at least trying to visit Berkeley and see if you like the area when making your decision?

Are you talking to me? I love the undergrad college town of Georgetown where the Kennedys, etc., lived. I did not like GULC so much because there is no campus. I am actually visiting Cal end June, or at least trying to get tkts that won't bankrupt us, but from what I am hearing from TLS and friends who live in the bay area is that it is a really nice place. I went to the ASW in NYC and met Dean Tom and other alums who all had nice things to say. One thing my wife wanted to know...is weed legal now and easily available?

Ah, Rotor, I did not realize best offers could come from other cities. We do not really want to move again after 3 years if our kid and wife is settled in a new job. That's a big reason I am choosing Cal becuase it has IP firms as well as tech companies, unlike NYC and DC.

[dannyde7]

I love it at Berkeley, and I think most people do like it. I don't know if the feeling is the same at Gtown or not, as I've never visited.

What is it that you want to do? Sounds like big law? If your heart is set on that, I would recommend Berkeley.

Is there a reason you aren't at least trying to visit Berkeley and see if you like the area when making your decision?

I actually visited the campus a few years ago and fell in love with the university. I didn't have the chance to visit the law school. Can anyone speak to the student population? Is it mostly Californians? Are people generally pretty cool and normal?

[jim-green]

I love it at Berkeley, and I think most people do like it. I don't know if the feeling is the same at Gtown or not, as I've never visited. What is it that you want to do? Sounds like big law? If your heart is set on that, I would recommend Berkeley. Is there a reason you aren't at least trying to visit Berkeley and see if you like the area when making your decision?

I actually visited the campus a few years ago and fell in love with the university. I didn't have the chance to visit the law school. Can anyone speak to the student population? Is it mostly Californians? Are people generally pretty cool and normal?

Dean Tom kinda hinted that about 50% of students are from CA because it is a state school. Also explains the lower LSAT.

[Rotor]

I actually visited the campus a few years ago and fell in love with the university. I didn't have the chance to visit the law school. Can anyone speak to the student population? Is it mostly Californians? Are people generally pretty cool and normal?

No. People are not "generally" pretty cool and nice. They are *almost uniformly* pretty cool & nice.

I think this is one of the biggest benefits of the more holistic approach to admissions that B has. Dean Tom works some pretty major voodoo to repeatedly bring in such interesting, accomplished and balanced individuals. (And this explains the lower LSAT more than the proportion of residents. At least I like to think so, since I'm one of those folks who was a straight deny on Law School Predictor and am helping drag down the median LSAT (and GPA for that matter)).

As for the proportion of residents, I doubt you'll even notice any effect. Unlike schools in smaller states where people may head home for weekends, etc. When "resident" can be from nearly 400 miles north (5+ hr drive) or 600 miles south (8+ hr drive), they really are resident for legal purposes only.

[Redamon1]

FWIW I picked Berkeley (0L) after speaking to alumns on the East Coast during several receptions and employers and getting assurances that the Berkeley name really carried weight on the East Coast with firms, govt and PI. Many people move back east after graduation. Some even said it was an advantage to have graduated from a school with comparatively fewer alumns on the east coast because employers like to have a diverse set of recruits. I'm also an East Coast guy, and although I'm looking forward to discovering CA -- and am open to living there after school -- I wanted to be sure that I could head back East if I wanted to. For me, job prospects and geographical flexibility were top priority.

And, BTW I'm doing the long-distance relationship thing for a while before my SO joins me in CA. I'm not thrilled about that, but I'm ready and determined to make it work. Book those flights early and get yourself on a good mileage program!

Lastly, it is one of the most commonly acknowledged traits of Berkeley that the student body is relatively more friendly and less competitive than at other schools. Granted I don't study there yet, but my visit at the school and my interactions with students and alumni on the East Coast were vey positive. As others have said, I think Dean Tom's selection and the grading system are likely two major factors.

Last but not least, I've lived in DC and I think it's a great city. You should know though, that the GULC campus and surrounding area are not the best. They are NOT part of the Georgetown neighborhood and campus. I wouldn't say it's a deal breaker though. Obviously, UC Berkeley and the Bay Area are great as well. Given your circumstances, I wouldn't rule either place out because of location. I'm sure you'd make the best of both locations. Consider that if you want to live in DC, you could do it after school.

[abc12345675]

I'd go with Georgetown. Not that big of a difference as far as jobs go. And you give your relationship a fighting chance. If it doesn't work out, well you still graduate from Georgetown. Which obviously ain't too shabby.

[dannyde7]

Thanks. This is helpful. The neighborhood surrounding GULC didn't bother me at all. I did my undergrad at Penn and I can tell you that Capitol Hill is nicer than West Philly, if that's possible.

[b33eazy]

Thanks. This is helpful. The neighborhood surrounding GULC didn't bother me at all. I did my undergrad at Penn and I can tell you that Capitol Hill is nicer than West Philly, if that's possible.

This is what I have to say. You need to at least visit the school and do some soul searching. Berkley has better placement nationwide and does have nice weather. In addition, you should never base an entire decision on a woman. I did that for college and that did not turn out well for me. In addition, your family and your gf will visit you. It can work and personally I would pick Berkely if I were you.

[Fark-o-vision]

Not sure if its true, but Georgetown and Cornell are kinda famous for putting grads in the slums of Biglaw (as far as I've heard). Berkeley, though it doesn't place in the numbers one would expect of a school of its caliber, puts people into just fantastic positions. All anecdotal from trolling around here. A little research on OP's part could probably substantiate or dismiss it.

Remember, if you get the chance when selecting a law school, to not just look at biglaw placement, but at the kinds of firms your options give you.

[dannyde7]

FWIW I picked Berkeley (0L) after speaking to alumns on the East Coast during several receptions and employers and getting assurances that the Berkeley name really carried weight on the East Coast with firms, govt and PI. Many people move back east after graduation. Some even said it was an advantage to have graduated from a school with comparatively fewer alumns on the east coast because employers like to have a diverse set of recruits. I'm also an East Coast guy, and although I'm looking forward to discovering CA -- and am open to living there after school -- I wanted to be sure that I could head back East if I wanted to. For me, job prospects and geographical flexibility were top priority.

And, BTW I'm doing the long-distance relationship thing for a while before my SO joins me in CA. I'm not thrilled about that, but I'm ready and determined to make it work. Book those flights early and get yourself on a good mileage program!

Lastly, it is one of the most commonly acknowledged traits of Berkeley that the student body is relatively more friendly and less competitive than at other schools. Granted I don't study there yet, but my visit at the school and my interactions with students and alumni on the East Coast were vey positive. As others have said, I think Dean Tom's selection and the grading system are likely two major factors.

Last but not least, I've lived in DC and I think it's a great city. You should know though, that the GULC campus and surrounding area are not the best. They are NOT part of the Georgetown neighborhood and campus. I wouldn't say it's a deal breaker though. Obviously, UC Berkeley and the Bay Area are great as well. Given your circumstances, I wouldn't rule either place out because of location. I'm sure you'd make the best of both locations. Consider that if you want to live in DC, you could do it after school.

redamon1, just out of curiosity, which schools did you choose Berkeley over?

[dannyde7]

Not sure if its true, but Georgetown and Cornell are kinda famous for putting grads in the slums of Biglaw (as far as I've heard). Berkeley, though it doesn't place in the numbers one would expect of a school of its caliber, puts people into just fantastic positions. All anecdotal from trolling around here. A little research on OP's part could probably substantiate or dismiss it.

Remember, if you get the chance when selecting a law school, to not just look at biglaw placement, but at the kinds of firms your options give you.

I don't need to be at Cravath or Sullivan & Cromwell to be happy, I just want to pay off my debt as quickly as possible. Making 100k/year at a mid-tier biglaw firm or a midlaw firm would not be the end of the world for me. Also, I've heard of plenty of people making V5 firms from Georgetown.

[Redamon1]

FWIW I picked Berkeley (0L) after speaking to alumns on the East Coast during several receptions and employers and getting assurances that the Berkeley name really carried weight on the East Coast with firms, govt and PI. Many people move back east after graduation. Some even said it was an advantage to have graduated from a school with comparatively fewer alumns on the east coast because employers like to have a diverse set of recruits. I'm also an East Coast guy, and although I'm looking forward to discovering CA -- and am open to living there after school -- I wanted to be sure that I could head back East if I wanted to. For me, job prospects and geographical flexibility were top priority.

And, BTW I'm doing the long-distance relationship thing for a while before my SO joins me in CA. I'm not thrilled about that, but I'm ready and determined to make it work. Book those flights early and get yourself on a good mileage program!

Lastly, it is one of the most commonly acknowledged traits of Berkeley that the student body is relatively more friendly and less competitive than at other schools. Granted I don't study there yet, but my visit at the school and my interactions with students and alumni on the East Coast were vey positive. As others have said, I think Dean Tom's selection and the grading system are likely two major factors.

Last but not least, I've lived in DC and I think it's a great city. You should know though, that the GULC campus and surrounding area are not the best. They are NOT part of the Georgetown neighborhood and campus. I wouldn't say it's a deal breaker though. Obviously, UC Berkeley and the Bay Area are great as well. Given your circumstances, I wouldn't rule either place out because of location. I'm sure you'd make the best of both locations. Consider that if you want to live in DC, you could do it after school.

redamon1, just out of curiosity, which schools did you choose Berkeley over?

Other T14 options. Happy to discuss in PM.