Columbia vs. Northwestern vs. UCLA Forum

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[Dany]

Rankings are really not important. Job prospects and debt are.

For what it's worth, I'm a 1L at UChicago which is as peer as it gets when you compare to Columbia, and I still think you'd be crazy to turn down the money at NU.

Also, just noticed your OP question about Chicago in general. For me, personally, Chicago has all the things I liked about NYC but none of the things I didn't. Same big city feel, but cheaper/cleaner/more livable. I absolutely love living here.

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[Dany]

A lot of people (most probably) take on even more debt to go to law school.

[moneybagsphd]

A lot of people (most probably) take on even more debt to go to law school.

you must be new here.

[SaintFond]

A lot of people (most probably) take on even more debt to go to law school.

Yeah, and a lot of them either regret it or at least wish they didn't have to take on so much debt.

If the decision were between Yale at sticker and NU full ride, there might be a contest. But as good as Columbia is, it's not worthwhile when you have a full ride at another T14, especially one with such good placement rates as NU.

Don't be a prestige whore

Do
the
right
thing

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[Dany]

A lot of people (most probably) take on even more debt to go to law school.

manage to pay off their debt just fine.

And many are unemployed. "Other people pay a lot for CLS" is a ridiculous rationale for choosing Columbia, because those people probably didn't have T14 full rides to choose instead. But if you want to spend a huge portion of your income paying off $200k of debt even though you don't have to, I'm sure those people would love company.

[SaintFond]

Northwestern full ride vs. CLS at sticker seems to be a classic dilemma based on previous years posts. If there is someone who chose CLS over NU + money, please comment now that you are at CLS.

You're going to make law school baby jesus cry, you know that?

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[hellothisisme]

There is one and only one intelligent decision here, and you know what that is.

Columbia is not worth anything remotely close to that kind of money over NU. And what the fuck is UCLA doing in this thread?

You probably never lived in SoCal. I feel depressed only thinking about Chicago winters.

If it makes you feel any better, I was born, raised, and went to UG in the south and I didn't find the Chicago weather bad at all my first winter here. A good coat works wonders!

Are you a 1L? If so, this year's winter was ridiculously, absurdly mild. Don't count on it always being like this. If, however, you were around for the previous winter, and you didn't think it was that bad, then... never mind.

ANYWAY, TCR is Northwestern.

[Dany]

Are you a 1L? If so, this year's winter was ridiculously, absurdly mild. Don't count on it always being like this. If, however, you were around for the previous winter, and you didn't think it was that bad, then... never mind.

ANYWAY, TCR is Northwestern.

Shhhhhhh.

[success888]

Depends on the goals. Also, 200k of debt is definitely not "short term cost." NU wins here imo, but Columbia is never a terrible choice. UCLA shouldnt be on the list with full ride at NU.

I agree with Detrox, NU is the way to go. way to go on getting into NU and Columbia though!

[moneybagsphd]

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[Doorkeeper]

Remove UCLA.

If you just want biglaw, go to Northwestern.

[quiver]

CLS is my dream school. I understand the rationale behind NU which is probably why I would go there anyway. But it is hard to quantify/explain a dream.

I understand this sentiment, I really do. However, NU is really the best choice for your goals. I hate to say it but the law school you attend is only relevant insofar is it helps you attain your career goals in a stable financial position. Is CLS really worth 150k+ more than another T14 that provides almost as many opportunities? Is the CLS name on your diploma really worth that much money? IMO you should absolutely take NU...and this is coming from a CLS 2L.

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[rayiner]

How are tuition and fees alone costing you $200k at CLS? Am I reading this wrong? Even with interest, that seems high.

And if you have a $20k scholarship at CLS and will have $200k debt, how is a $150k scholarship at Northwestern going to leave you with no debt? The former implies you have no savings to apply to school, the latter implies you have like $75k.

I don't really understand what's going on here but as best I can tell, it sounds like you're talking about paying $200,000 more for CLS than Northwestern. If that's your choice, then that shit cray.

I don't take living expenses into consideration. CLS tuition and fees is 59,950 for 2012-2013 minus 8K scholarship first year (2nd year 8K and 3rd year 4K) = ~51KX3years = 153K + interest = ~200K.

Interest on $150k in tuition over three years is like $20k, not $50k.

at 6.8% for the first 20,500. for another 30K it is at 7.9 % plus 4% origination fees. so it is slightly more than 50K in interest actually. plus I left tuition increases out of the formula. but yeah CLS will cost me approximately ~200K. If I put in some cash, maybe 185K. even without interest, tuition and fees over three years will cost ~$164. so 160K = CLS J.D. at the very least (1st year 60K - 8K = 52K; 2nd - 60K-8K= 52K; 60K-4K= 56K)

I have no idea how you're doing this calculation. The averaged interest rate is 7.61%, and it's a simple interest loan compounded at the end of your in-school deferment. So per year you pay about 0.0761 * 50,000 = $3,805 of interest on each $50k. Roughly speaking, you pay three years on the first $50k, two years on the second $50k, and one year on the third $50k. Or about $23k total. Including origination fees it's about $24k.

[rayiner]

A lot of people (most probably) take on even more debt to go to law school.

manage to pay off their debt just fine.

Most people will pay off their debt just fine. But even at $160k, especially in NYC where you might have to focus just because of the state of the job market elsewhere, your QoL with $3000/month in student loans versus < $1000/month in student loans is quite dramatically different.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Yeah. I am still surprised how expensive CLS is. I guess I'm not paying so much less at NYU (maybe $5k less all in, before scholarships) but somehow it feels less egregious. And I make it a point not to think too much about my accruing interest....

Anyway... I don't think there is any way CLS is worth $130,000 more than NW, pre interest. Maybe someone can make an argument for UCLA if you're deadset on working in southern California, I dunno.

Are you 0L, 1L, 2L? If you do attend NYU, would you choose money over rankings if you were me, now that you know better (hopefully)?

I'm an NYU 2L. I didn't have any huge scholarship offers from lower T14 schools so my choice was easier than yours; Michigan gave me $30k more than NYU, but the rest of the T14 offered about the same or less than I got at NYU. If I were you, I would take Northwestern over Columbia here. The debt is a big, big, big deal. I hear you that Columbia is a "dream school" for you, but I think that when you are using terms like "dream school" to refer to law schools, it's a sign that you need to take a step back and assess things more rationally.

There's really no reason objectively to dream about going to Columbia Law School. It's just a law school. There is a 99% chance you won't be a law professor from CLS or NW and if you end up wanting to do public interest, taking on an extra $130k in debt that won't be eligible for LRAP is literally the worst thing you could do. I just don't see the argument for CLS here. There's nothing special about the doors it will open for you over Northwestern.

[keg411]

Yeah. I am still surprised how expensive CLS is. I guess I'm not paying so much less at NYU (maybe $5k less all in, before scholarships) but somehow it feels less egregious. And I make it a point not to think too much about my accruing interest....

Anyway... I don't think there is any way CLS is worth $130,000 more than NW, pre interest. Maybe someone can make an argument for UCLA if you're deadset on working in southern California, I dunno.

Are you 0L, 1L, 2L? If you do attend NYU, would you choose money over rankings if you were me, now that you know better (hopefully)?

I'm an NYU 2L. I didn't have any huge scholarship offers from lower T14 schools so my choice was easier than yours; Michigan gave me $30k more than NYU, but the rest of the T14 offered about the same or less than I got at NYU. If I were you, I would take Northwestern over Columbia here. The debt is a big, big, big deal. I hear you that Columbia is a "dream school" for you, but I think that when you are using terms like "dream school" to refer to law schools, it's a sign that you need to take a step back and assess things more rationally.

There's really no reason objectively to dream about going to Columbia Law School. It's just a law school. There is a 99% chance you won't be a law professor from CLS or NW and if you end up wanting to do public interest, taking on an extra $130k in debt that won't be eligible for LRAP is literally the worst thing you could do. I just don't see the argument for CLS here. There's nothing special about the doors it will open for you over Northwestern.

+1. OP, go to NU.