When is UCLA better than Penn? Forum

[DaftAndDirect]

Close call because OP works in LA as a journalist & wants to maintain ties to the LA entertainment industry.

OP: Although Penn clearly places into biglaw better than UCLA, you will be taking yourself out of your current network for three years. Visit Penn & ask about summer associate placement in Los Angeles. It would be helpful to know specific LA placement stats from both schools.

Also, ask UCLA for additional scholarship money since some has recently become available & your Penn acceptance with money will get UCLA adcomms' attention.

Ok I'll actually add something useful to this thread. I got UCLA to bump my scholly offer from 75k to 90k after mentioning a 30k scholly at Michigan. You can definitely get at least that much with a 45k offer from Penn on the table.

Good luck with your decision brother.

[PMan99]

I have to think Penn the better choice. It almost certainly is for the top firms with entertainment divisions (QE, Irell, OMM, etc). Whether it is for the next rungs down (Greenberg, MSK, Sheppard) I don't really know - it looks like those firms don't do OCI at Penn. I think if you look at the median student, though, there's at least some path for the Penn student (NYC Biglaw/Entertainment --> Lateral) whereas it's going to be a lot tougher for median at UCLA.

[Gemini198]

Thanks for everyone's responses. For those that are asking about my journalism background, I'll elaborate a little bit. I work in news for a major network as a content producer. I have one year of experience, so I don't expect to be able to leave for 3 years and have a job waiting for me (in their legal department) when I return. And even though I want to work in media/entertainment law right now, I do want my options open for me, because I know my focus could change after going through law school.

I'm not specific to working in LA either, I'm open between So Cal/Nor Cal. My family is actually in Nor Cal, and all I know is that I want to be back in state. Penn only sends about 10% of its grads back to CA, but I think that's a lot of self selection, their grads likely just prefer the east coast.

The reason I'm torn is because UCLA would likely make it easier for me to build connections in-state, plus its cheaper, lets me stay close to family/friends etc. I know I want to do my summer internships in CA, don't know how easy that is to get at Penn. UCLA has already bumped up my offer twice (knowing about Penn's 45k), so I don't think they will do it again. Penn meanwhile will likely not budge since all I have left to negotiate with is UCLA. I've expressed that I could seriously pick UCLA because of the $$ and my desire to be in CA, but I doubt they feel pressure.

Anyone at UCLA or Penn have any feedback?

[romothesavior]

Penn by a landslide. Work in Cali over your summers, it won't be hard to do. The cost difference does not justify the difference in prospects.

[Doorkeeper]

Thanks for everyone's responses. For those that are asking about my journalism background, I'll elaborate a little bit. I work in news for a major network as a content producer. I have one year of experience, so I don't expect to be able to leave for 3 years and have a job waiting for me (in their legal department) when I return. And even though I want to work in media/entertainment law right now, I do want my options open for me, because I know my focus could change after going through law school.

Ok then. Penn definitely wins for job prospects then.

The reason I'm torn is because UCLA would likely make it easier for me to build connections in-state, plus its cheaper, lets me stay close to family/friends etc. I know I want to do my summer internships in CA, don't know how easy that is to get at Penn. UCLA has already bumped up my offer twice (knowing about Penn's 45k), so I don't think they will do it again. Penn meanwhile will likely not budge since all I have left to negotiate with is UCLA. I've expressed that I could seriously pick UCLA because of the $$ and my desire to be in CA, but I doubt they feel pressure.

Instead of this debate being about job prospects, it is now one about comfort vs. job prospects. Penn undoubtedly has the better job prospects, but UCLA is close to family/friends. This choice is entirely subjective and is your decision.

[Gemini198]

Instead of this debate being about job prospects, it is now one about comfort vs. job prospects. Penn undoubtedly has the better job prospects, but UCLA is close to family/friends. This choice is entirely subjective and is your decision.

Aside from personal preference for CA, I'm honestly concerned with Penn's ability to place me in CA, especially for summer associate positions. If I knew that I could easily come back to CA for summers, and effectively line up a job in CA post grad I think I would chose Penn. But given Penn's low CA placement and it's higher cost, I can't decide what the smarter choice (career and finances wise) would be.

[Nelson]

Instead of this debate being about job prospects, it is now one about comfort vs. job prospects. Penn undoubtedly has the better job prospects, but UCLA is close to family/friends. This choice is entirely subjective and is your decision.

Aside from personal preference for CA, I'm honestly concerned with Penn's ability to place me in CA, especially for summer associate positions. If I knew that I could easily come back to CA for summers, and effectively line up a job in CA post grad I think I would chose Penn. But given Penn's low CA placement and it's higher cost, I can't decide what the smarter choice (career and finances wise) would be.

Ask Penn for a list of California firms that come to OCI. You can always mass mail for 2L as well to supplement. You have strong ties to the region.

[JasonR]

A lot of really horrible 0L advice on this thread. You know who you are. Please go back to giving advice on personal statements or hanging out on acceptance/waitlist/rejection threads.

[Wholigan]

I have to vote to come to Penn. Regardless of ties and physically being in LA, I think unless you're top 1/3, you will be fighting an uphill battle to find a job that will service your debt from UCLA. At Penn, you will have a fighting chance almost regardless what your grades are. Besides the firms that actually come to OCI, they have a separate interview week in Cali, which I'm sure you know about. While the numbers of Penn grads placing in CA isn't huge, I think it's largely self-selection. I would say only about 10-15% of the class tends to be from CA, and most who aren't don't look for work out there, save for a few IP types. Last year there were 34 firms at OCI interviewing for at least one CA office, although for sure some probably were satellite offices and may have just had someone from another office cover the screeners.

[Gemini198]

I have to vote to come to Penn. Regardless of ties and physically being in LA, I think unless you're top 1/3, you will be fighting an uphill battle to find a job that will service your debt from UCLA. At Penn, you will have a fighting chance almost regardless what your grades are. Besides the firms that actually come to OCI, they have a separate interview week in Cali, which I'm sure you know about. While the numbers of Penn grads placing in CA isn't huge, I think it's largely self-selection. I would say only about 10-15% of the class tends to be from CA, and most who aren't don't look for work out there, save for a few IP types. Last year there were 34 firms at OCI interviewing for at least one CA office, although for sure some probably were satellite offices and may have just had someone from another office cover the screeners.

Thanks, that's really useful to know. My biggest concern was Penn's ability to bring me back to CA as compared to UCLA...but I'm sure if there is a separate week of OCI for CA firms than I should (hopefully) be okay.

Would love to get a little bit more money from Penn though. Does anyone think I have a shot by using UCLA? I don't think Penn actually takes me seriously when I say I'm considering UCLA. It probably sounds absurd to them, but given my desire to stay/work in CA, UCLA is a serious option for me and I don't know if they recognize that.

[CanadianWolf]

Penn is unlikely to offer scholarship money based on an offer from UCLA; it works in the other direction, however. Until you notify UCLA of your Penn acceptance & ask for an increased scholarship, you don't know whether or not you'll have any significant debt to service if you attend UCLA. As it is, you really are seeking advice without knowledge of your options. This is not the typical scholarship versus T-14 at sticker scenario because UCLA is a major player in your target market.

[Wholigan]

I have to vote to come to Penn. Regardless of ties and physically being in LA, I think unless you're top 1/3, you will be fighting an uphill battle to find a job that will service your debt from UCLA. At Penn, you will have a fighting chance almost regardless what your grades are. Besides the firms that actually come to OCI, they have a separate interview week in Cali, which I'm sure you know about. While the numbers of Penn grads placing in CA isn't huge, I think it's largely self-selection. I would say only about 10-15% of the class tends to be from CA, and most who aren't don't look for work out there, save for a few IP types. Last year there were 34 firms at OCI interviewing for at least one CA office, although for sure some probably were satellite offices and may have just had someone from another office cover the screeners.

Thanks, that's really useful to know. My biggest concern was Penn's ability to bring me back to CA as compared to UCLA...but I'm sure if there is a separate week of OCI for CA firms than I should (hopefully) be okay.

Would love to get a little bit more money from Penn though. Does anyone think I have a shot by using UCLA? I don't think Penn actually takes me seriously when I say I'm considering UCLA. It probably sounds absurd to them, but given my desire to stay/work in CA, UCLA is a serious option for me and I don't know if they recognize that.

I would suggest asking admissions if they can put you in contact with a 2L who participated in the Cali regional interview program last year. It might be a little late now since finals are over and people are heading out, but admissions is big on putting accepted students in touch with current students, so maybe they can find someone who can give you an idea on what to expect from the regional interview program. I don't know about the money, but I could see where they might not play ball if the competing offer is not a T14, which is a shame for you, since in your case UCLA is worth considering.

[SaintFond]

There may be cases where going to UCLA over Penn is credited.

This is not one of them.

[CanadianWolf]

Don't you think that it depends upon whether or not UCLA increases OP's scholarship &, if so, the amount of that increased scholarship ?

What if UCLA increases OP's scholarship to $120,000, for example ?

Currently & during the last cycle or two, UCLA offered substantial scholarship increase to many TLS to counter T-14 offers.

[Gemini198]

Don't you think that it depends upon whether or not UCLA increases OP's scholarship &, if so, the amount of that increased scholarship ?

What if UCLA increases OP's scholarship to $120,000, for example ?

Currently & during the last cycle or two, UCLA offered substantial scholarship increase to many TLS to counter T-14 offers.

If UCLA gave me $120,000 I would take it in a heart beat. Tuition would only be about 5k/year then, and I could try to cover CoL on my own, so I'd basically be able to graduate law school debt free. Aaah what I would give for that.

Unfortunately, UCLA started me off at a 45k scholarship, and has only bumped it up in increments of 15k. I've been in touch with them constantly, and have been successful on two increases. Even if they miraculously gave me more aid, I think it would just be another 15k. :/

[CanadianWolf]

Lots of new information.Because your work experience & contacts seem to consist of just one year, & since your UCLA scholarship has been renegotiated at least twice already, & since you also are now open to locations other than Los Angeles, Penn is the better choice.

[gravityrides0]

this thread is relevant to my interests.

[TTTehehe]

Not sure if OP made a decision, but maybe future TLSers will benefit from this.

PENN.

Penn opens doors like a bellhop. UCLA would have to pony up A LOT more cash to make choosing it over Penn remotely advisable.

Also, you can always put in UCLA/USC visiting student apps during your 2L or 3L year to stay connected to SoCal. Add 1L and 2L SoCal summer internships in the mix and you'll be good to go post graduation.

Edit: Ask for more money from UCLA if you do decide to go.

[MrSparkle]

I have a friend at UCLA who, through some sort of mentoring program they have at UCLA, makes regular visits to the Warner Bros. under the wing of an entertainment lawyer. This is anecdotal I know, and you should research this more, but she's having a blast and making mad connections.

I think you should take the sizable scholarship and go to UCLA. You seem to really want to stay on the west coast, and UCLA pulls a lot of weight, especially since it's the best law school in socal. I think the Penn-namebrand-biglaw argument doesn't work because it's so far away in an area with no entertainment industry. Even if you change your mind, UCLA will give you good options anyway, esp in California, and you will graduate with less debt and have less need to find that biglaw job, vs. Penn where you'll probably end up trying to make connections back west and trying to break into an industry to which you had no chance to make connections during school.

Steven Spielberg arranged his college sched to hang out on Hollywood lots and invite random executives to lunch. If a guy THAT talented realized he needed connections, what does that say for the rest of us? Work on your connections, esp. with regard to the network-heavy entertainment industry, where (if recent Hollywood movies are any indication), merit and ability isn't everything.

[romothesavior]

Very glad this thread was bumped two months later with a comment that was substantively the same as almost every other post ITT.

[TTTehehe]

Very glad this thread was bumped two months later with a comment that was substantively the same as almost every other post ITT.

I'm sure similar scenarios will occur next cycle for someone. This thread may be dead for all intents and purposes, but someone may find it useful if they research past cycles.

[kwais]

November --> March for sure