Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU Forum

[dixiecupdrinking]

The punch line is that unpaid interest under IBR doesn't compound. So the resulting tax bomb isn't that bad.

Are you sure about this? If so that's good news. I was pretty sure it does compound, but maybe I was just thinking of the interest on the original principle. In any event, if you're not making enough for your IBR payments to cover the interest, it will still accumulate and your forgiveness amount could well exceed your original principle.

[Perdevise]

This may not matter to you as much as the financial aspects, but have you visited both? People seem to make decent financial arguments for either school. Is there one you feel you could more easily succeed at?

[rayiner]

The punch line is that unpaid interest under IBR doesn't compound. So the resulting tax bomb isn't that bad.

Are you sure about this? If so that's good news. I was pretty sure it does compound, but maybe I was just thinking of the interest on the original principle. In any event, if you're not making enough for your IBR payments to cover the interest, it will still accumulate and your forgiveness amount could well exceed your original principle.

http://www.ibrinfo.org/faq.vp.html#_How_does_IBR_

Interest not covered by your IBR payments will accrue, but only on your original principle amount. So your forgiveness tax bomb will be on like $300k rather than $1 million.

[Tiago Splitter]

The punch line is that unpaid interest under IBR doesn't compound. So the resulting tax bomb isn't that bad.

Are you sure about this? If so that's good news. I was pretty sure it does compound, but maybe I was just thinking of the interest on the original principle. In any event, if you're not making enough for your IBR payments to cover the interest, it will still accumulate and your forgiveness amount could well exceed your original principle.

He's right that interest doesn't compound under IBR, but your point is right on too.

This may not matter to you as much as the financial aspects, but have you visited both? People seem to make decent financial arguments for either school. Is there one you feel you could more easily succeed at?

I have visited both. Just got back from the ASW events in NYC and really enjoyed my time there. I'll be heading to Northwestern's ASW in a couple of weeks, but I visited last August and loved the location. I'm also older (28) and might relate a bit better to students at Northwestern. But it's not like I felt out of place last week.

To be honest California placement isn't a huge deal, if only because I know with my career goals that I'll probably start off in New York.

[bdubs]

To be honest California placement isn't a huge deal, if only because I know with my career goals that I'll probably start off in New York.

You should probably take CLS then. The difference in NYC placement is substantial.

[chasgoose]

I would take whichever of CLS/NYU you liked better at ASW. They are both probably worth about $60-75k more than NU in the long run. Among CLS/NYU, the differences are negligible so go to whichever one you liked more.

[TheRedMamba]

Another thing to add here is that you never know how your preferences/goals might change during and after three years of law school. In the context of this thread, OP might want CA now but that is definitely subject to change over time due to life experiences and, among other things, job offers. With respect to that, NYU/CLS give you far more freedom than does NU if you do change your mind

[kennethellenparcell]

With respect to that, NYU/CLS give you far more freedom than does NU if you do change your mind

Can you talk about this in more detail? Does the NYU/CLS degree really have more nationwide mobility than the NU degree? I mean, both are national schools right...?

[bdubs]

With respect to that, NYU/CLS give you far more freedom than does NU if you do change your mind

Can you talk about this in more detail? Does the NYU/CLS degree really have more nationwide mobility than the NU degree? I mean, both are national schools right...?

No, this is terrible advice. CLS only places a handful of students outside of NYC and DC. Both CLS and NYU don't have a significant edge in PI, academia, or clerkships. Their advantages are limited to NYC big law, and giving you a little bit more cushion at the margins for other highly competitive jobs.

[woeisme]

Where are your ties?

[Tiago Splitter]

Where are your ties?

Grew up in San Diego, undergrad in Orange County, live in Phoenix.

But again, given the work I want to do I am not at all confident of ending up out West, at least not right away.

[booboo]

Though your goal is SoCal, that is not a good "risk averse" way to approach law school. I'd be more concerned about maximizing potential for getting a BigLaw job (if that is the goal). Though NU does seem to place remarkably well, I still believe CLS/NYU have the type of control over the NY market that every school save HY crave (S grads usually could not care less about working in NY, is my assumption, since there seems to be a dearth of them).

ETA: The point about the control over the NY market goes to the fact that NY legal market is the only that has shown any sense of a real recovery from the 2008 crash.

[woeisme]

CLS or NYU then, I guess. I think I'd do CLS.

[TheRedMamba]

With respect to that, NYU/CLS give you far more freedom than does NU if you do change your mind

Can you talk about this in more detail? Does the NYU/CLS degree really have more nationwide mobility than the NU degree? I mean, both are national schools right...?

No, this is terrible advice. CLS only places a handful of students outside of NYC and DC. Both CLS and NYU don't have a significant edge in PI, academia, or clerkships. Their advantages are limited to NYC big law, and giving you a little bit more cushion at the margins for other highly competitive jobs.

Again, this is due to self-selection more than anything else. If you think the only factor that makes CLS > NU is NYC BigLaw you are dreaming

[bdubs]

Again, this is due to self-selection more than anything else. If you think the only factor that makes CLS > NU is NYC BigLaw you are dreaming

Not saying they are equivalent, but they are close enough that the $$ difference needs to be assessed closely.

OP wants to work in NYC. Most people who want to work in NYC want to work for the V10 firms. CLS and NYU have a distinct advantage with placement in the V10. I think CLS/NYU are worth it in that situation.

For almost any other career goal, I would advise them to seriously consider NU.

[rayiner]

With respect to that, NYU/CLS give you far more freedom than does NU if you do change your mind

Can you talk about this in more detail? Does the NYU/CLS degree really have more nationwide mobility than the NU degree? I mean, both are national schools right...?

No, this is terrible advice. CLS only places a handful of students outside of NYC and DC. Both CLS and NYU don't have a significant edge in PI, academia, or clerkships. Their advantages are limited to NYC big law, and giving you a little bit more cushion at the margins for other highly competitive jobs.

Again, this is due to self-selection more than anything else. If you think the only factor that makes CLS > NU is NYC BigLaw you are dreaming

"It's self-selection" is a great way to counter an argument based on data with an argument based on begging the question.

90% of the advantage of CLS/NYU is better placement into NYC big law. This is a very significant advantage, no doubt. However, I don't think CLS/NYU carry substantially more weight outside of NYC, or at least not enough to turn down money over.

I interviewed in DC, Chicago, New York, and Atlanta, and talked to partners a lot about recruiting. In every market, especially in DC, only H/Y are really considered to be in a different league than the rest of the T14.

[Bronck]

I suggest CLS, and you know why brotha.