2012 UVA vs. Texas Throwdown (And I don't even like orange) Forum

[rayiner]

Bump for the night crew. I just want somebody to help me justify wanting to go to Texas.

So base your decision on placement, and outside of the east coast, I think Texas is at least on par. There is no actual, concrete line. The placement stats are pretty stellar in Texas, and I think their economy is positioned to actually move forward (unlike a lot of areas)... plus, if you have any intention of ever coming back to Nebraska, you're going to hate having accumulated $40,000 extra in debt for a name that carries very little (if any) more weight than Texas in Omaha.

I agree. Base the decision on placement: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=181415

For C/O 2011:
Northwestern: 53% biglaw (+1%), 8% clerkship (+0%) = 61% (+1%)
Texas: 24% biglaw (-4%) + 7% clerkships (-4%) = 31% (-8%)
...
For C/O 2010:
...
Virginia: 51% biglaw + 12% clerkship[1] = 63%
Duke: 45% biglaw + 13% clerkship = 58%
Northwestern: 53% biglaw + 8% clerkship = 60%
Cornell: 76% biglaw + 5% clerkship[4] = 81%
Georgetown: 43% biglaw + 7% clerkship[2] = 50%
UCLA: 32% biglaw + 6% clerkship[2] = 38%
Texas: 28% biglaw + 11% clerkships = 39%
...

Don't get me wrong, Texas is a great school but UVA has substantially stronger placement, and the difference in cost is just not enough to outweigh that.

[HookemHooker]

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[wallflower1987]

I vote UVA, because there's just no way your total COA would be 90k if you're getting a 120k scholarship.

The cost of living is much, much less than the estimates on the website. I'd take about 6k a year off of the estimates.

I would not take anything off of their estimates, fwiw... not everybody has the same expenses. If you have a car, or anything like that to pay for, you are going to need some way to pay while you are not allowed to work. $210,000 sounds about right for COA... I've seen higher than that out east. To compare apples-to-apples, I would stick with their estimates. Yours may be higher or lower at any given school.

[wallflower1987]

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this.

[5ky]

I vote UVA, because there's just no way your total COA would be 90k if you're getting a 120k scholarship.

The cost of living is much, much less than the estimates on the website. I'd take about 6k a year off of the estimates.

I would not take anything off of their estimates, fwiw... not everybody has the same expenses. If you have a car, or anything like that to pay for, you are going to need some way to pay while you are not allowed to work. $210,000 sounds about right for COA... I've seen higher than that out east. To compare apples-to-apples, I would stick with their estimates. Yours may be higher or lower at any given school.

6k a year might be a bit high depending on a person's individual expenses, but I am quite sure the estimate is much too high.

[yngblkgifted]

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[wallflower1987]

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this.

still this.

[HookemHooker]

You can keep your wimpy flag...

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[danquayle]

If you're deadset on Texas, I think you'd be crazy to go anywhere else. Texans love everything Texan.

And Austin blows Charlottesville out of the water.

Virginia will do you better everywhere else, though.

[gaud]

If you're deadset on Texas, I think you'd be crazy to go anywhere else. Texans love everything Texan.

And Austin blows Charlottesville out of the water.

Virginia will do you better everywhere else, though.

This entire statement is credited.

[wallflower1987]

You can keep your wimpy flag...

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Yay, boobies! Four more PERFECTly good reasons why Texas is good enough. (in the interest of at least mentioning law school stats, I think Texas has good, firm placement and a perky outlook. Nipple.)

In all seriousness, go where you want to go; that is where you will do best. If it were me, I guess, given your stated goals and possible future plans, I would still say go Texas. If you work hard, you will get market pay in a major market. Dallas/Houston/Austin/Texas are way cheaper than the east coast, by and large... so keep that in mind. $160k in TX > $160k in NYC, DC, etc. So "biglaw" is a relative term, and salaries are subject to the market they are in. Regardless of where NALP draws that cutoff, these offers sound comparable, and the biggest difference between the two is pretty much where you would rather be. Both have pretty stellar placement numbers (I'll give UVA the edge, there). If you want to work in Texas and aren't a dumbshit/finish in the top 75% of your class, you will make six figures in Texas. In constant dollars, I would guess the difference between $95,000 in TX and $135,000 in a major market (NYC, DC, etc) is not that big. It may be something, but not everything.

That said, both are great schools, both are great offers. If you want Texas and maybe the Southwest in general (not sure), Texas is better. If you want east coast/Atlantic/NYC, UVA is better. If you want west coast, neither is the best option. The decision depends on where you want to live more than it does on $40,000, which is not a big enough difference to change the conversation. If you will work anywhere and just want a big salary, UVA is better, but Texas is still great. I think that would be a really dumb way to decide, but I haven't found a smarter way yet. TLS is filled with top students who are aiming for the moon, so they are going to encourage you to go to the highest attainable school... especially if it has been made so affordable. Neither choice here is wrong. You just need to pick one of two great schools and two great offers. This question seems to be more about geography than school, and that is a very personal decision (I second that Texas as a whole beats Virginia and the whole east coast to shit, but that's just my preference... also I do suspect that the energy boom will keep the bottom of the market from falling out of TX altogether... can't say the same about everywhere else... also, TX dominates TX, the second biggest state in the country... UVA dominates jack and shit, they're just a great school in an area full of great (better) schools...).

I think anything is a gamble, to some extent... but these two schools offer similarly strong prospects. Pick an area and go with it. I'm sure you will not be sorry.

p.s. maybe stipulations can provide some separation? Doubtful at this level, but worth a shot.

[wallflower1987]

This just occurred to me, as well... a lot of schools have compiled Class of 2011 stats, even though they have not been published. However, they will release this data to you. So that will give you a better idea of the trends in those markets and in those schools. Hope that helps, if you hadn't done that yet!

[Tom Joad]

Thanks for the long response, wallflower.

[t14fanboy]

Keep the pics coming. I might sit out this cycle and apply to UT next year.

[HookemHooker]

You can keep your wimpy flag...

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Yay, boobies! Four more PERFECTly good reasons why Texas is good enough. (in the interest of at least mentioning law school stats, I think Texas has good, firm placement and a perky outlook. Nipple.In all seriousness, go where you want to go; that is where you will do best. If it were me, I guess, given your stated goals and possible future plans, I would still say go Texas. If you work hard, you will get market pay in a major market. Dallas/Houston/Austin/Texas are way cheaper than the east coast, by and large... so keep that in mind. $160k in TX > $160k in NYC, DC, etc. So "biglaw" is a relative term, and salaries are subject to the market they are in. Regardless of where NALP draws that cutoff, these offers sound comparable, and the biggest difference between the two is pretty much where you would rather be. Both have pretty stellar placement numbers (I'll give UVA the edge, there). If you want to work in Texas and aren't a dumbshit/finish in the top 75% of your class, you will make six figures in Texas. In constant dollars, I would guess the difference between $95,000 in TX and $135,000 in a major market (NYC, DC, etc) is not that big. It may be something, but not everything.

That said, both are great schools, both are great offers. If you want Texas and maybe the Southwest in general (not sure), Texas is better. If you want east coast/Atlantic/NYC, UVA is better. If you want west coast, neither is the best option. The decision depends on where you want to live more than it does on $40,000, which is not a big enough difference to change the conversation. If you will work anywhere and just want a big salary, UVA is better, but Texas is still great. I think that would be a really dumb way to decide, but I haven't found a smarter way yet. TLS is filled with top students who are aiming for the moon, so they are going to encourage you to go to the highest attainable school... especially if it has been made so affordable. Neither choice here is wrong. You just need to pick one of two great schools and two great offers. This question seems to be more about geography than school, and that is a very personal decision (I second that Texas as a whole beats Virginia and the whole east coast to shit, but that's just my preference... also I do suspect that the energy boom will keep the bottom of the market from falling out of TX altogether... can't say the same about everywhere else... also, TX dominates TX, the second biggest state in the country... UVA dominates jack and shit, they're just a great school in an area full of great (better) schools...).

I think anything is a gamble, to some extent... but these two schools offer similarly strong prospects. Pick an area and go with it. I'm sure you will not be sorry.

p.s. maybe stipulations can provide some separation? Doubtful at this level, but worth a shot.

OP- Above poster has some great points. I worked in DC for 6 years before deciding to go back to law school. UVA is a strong school in the area, but the surrounding markets are also very saturated. Also, UT stips only require that you not fail out of law school. All in all you have some great options. Just remember that I am sleeping with one of these ^^^ tonight while you are making this important decision.

[lurkylurk]

UT 3L. This is a tough call. UVA has better placement. To be sure, there are likely many good firm jobs in Texas that don't count as "biglaw" but nevertheless pay good money in low COL areas. But UVA on the whole offers the safer shot at 6 figure employment.

I disagree with posts in this thread downplaying the insularity of the Texas markets. As a Nebraskan, you will face an uphill battle in every single interview to convince people you don't want to run back to Omaha. It isn't impossible to do, and being top10+LR makes it easier of course, but the notion that 3/4 of the UT class walks into biglaw, or even Texas biglaw, is a fairy tale at best.

UT is a great place, in an even better city, and filled with a lot of chill folks who understand that football beats softball every day of the week. There are also success stories for every goal you could dream up: TX biglaw, elite DC and NY and CA firms, lit boutique powerhouses, SCOTUS clerks, etc. But almost all of those stories seem like they could just as easily be told at UVA.

Happy to answer specific Qs if you have them.

[t14fanboy]

You can keep your wimpy flag...

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OP- Above poster has some great points. I worked in DC for 6 years before deciding to go back to law school. UVA is a strong school in the area, but the surrounding markets are also very saturated. Also, UT stips only require that you not fail out of law school. All in all you have some great options. Just remember that I am sleeping with one of these ^^^ tonight while you are making this important decision.

You sure? Cuz this doesn't count

[HookemHooker]

Keep the pics coming. I might sit out this cycle and apply to UT next year.

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[wallflower1987]

You can keep your wimpy flag...

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... Just remember that I am sleeping with one of these ^^^ tonight while you are making this important decision.

And I'll be watching Rush Hour 1, 2 and 3 alone at my apartment, in my Batman t-shirt ($5 at Walmart). So we're all pulling for you, at both ends of the spectrum.

[Tom Joad]

You can keep your wimpy flag...

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... Just remember that I am sleeping with one of these ^^^ tonight while you are making this important decision.

And I'll be watching Rush Hour 1, 2 and 3 alone at my apartment, in my Batman t-shirt ($5 at Walmart). So we're all pulling for you, at both ends of the spectrum.

The one on our left side (their right) is a straight up 10/10. Can't stop looking.

[wallflower1987]

You can keep your wimpy flag...

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... Just remember that I am sleeping with one of these ^^^ tonight while you are making this important decision.

And I'll be watching Rush Hour 1, 2 and 3 alone at my apartment, in my Batman t-shirt ($5 at Walmart). So we're all pulling for you, at both ends of the spectrum.

The one on our left side (their right) is a straight up 10/10. Can't stop looking.

Well there ya go. Texas it is. Although Virginia is known for its voluptuous women as well.

[flem]

You can keep your wimpy flag...

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BRB applying ED to UT