UT at sticker or U of Houston with big scholly Forum

[crit_racer]

This thread is ridiculous. Bickering about who knows more is not productive. Neither is posting anecdotes about people you know and their job situations.

OP- try and negotiate w/ UT before you make your decision. I was able to negotiate a small scholarship last year that, along with in state tuition, made UT far and away my best option. Any similarly ranked schools you can bait them with?

[pupperoni]

first of all, one of my relatives went to UT in the past and is now a hiring recruiter at one of the biglaw firms in texas so i know what i am talking about. what is the point of getting a full ride to UH if you face a good chance of being unemployed or getting a crappy shitlaw job in this economy (firms are not thinking about increasing class sizes even if the economy improves)? at UH you need to be at least top 25% to even have a shot at biglaw in houston and you are shut out from nearly all of the great opportunities in PI and clerkships. UT on the other hand gives you a great chance at anything in texas and the grading distribution there (very cluttered near median) allows you to use your personal skills during interviews to make up for any lesser grades. lastly, you need to calm down romo.

[TJISMYHERO]

first of all, one of my relatives went to UT in the past and is now a hiring recruiter at one of the biglaw firms in texas so i know what i am talking about. what is the point of getting a full ride to UH if you face a good chance of being unemployed or getting a crappy shitlaw job in this economy (firms are not thinking about increasing class sizes even if the economy improves)? at UH you need to be at least top 25% to even have a shot at biglaw in houston and you are shut out from nearly all of the great opportunities in PI and clerkships. UT on the other hand gives you a great chance at anything in texas and the grading distribution there (very cluttered near median) allows you to use your personal skills during interviews to make up for any lesser grades. lastly, you need to calm down romo.

It's more like top 15% to have a shot at biglaw, unless you're a URM and get something through a diversity program.

[pupperoni]

yeah that is more in line but by "shot" i literally meant even .001%

[kalvano]

I'm also going to question the "full ride" part. I could be wrong, but I think UofH is pretty stingy with money.

Also, as someone else pointed out, what (if any) stips are attached to the money?

[romothesavior]

first of all, one of my relatives went to UT in the past and is now a hiring recruiter at one of the biglaw firms in texas so i know what i am talking about.

Riveting tale brah.

[eaper]

I'm also going to question the "full ride" part. I could be wrong, but I think UofH is pretty stingy with money.

Also, as someone else pointed out, what (if any) stips are attached to the money?

I was under the impression U of H hasn't started giving out money yet this year.=\

[romothesavior]

I'm also going to question the "full ride" part. I could be wrong, but I think UofH is pretty stingy with money.

Also, as someone else pointed out, what (if any) stips are attached to the money?

U of H hasn't even started giving out schollys yet this year.

Yeah, nowhere did OP say full ride. I was working with a hypothetical full ride, because he didn't specify.

If it's not a full ride, then obviously UT easily. I just think its closer than people make it out to be if it really is a free degree.

[eaper]

I'm also going to question the "full ride" part. I could be wrong, but I think UofH is pretty stingy with money.

Also, as someone else pointed out, what (if any) stips are attached to the money?

U of H hasn't even started giving out schollys yet this year.

Yeah, nowhere did OP say full ride. I was working with a hypothetical full ride, because he didn't specify.

If it's not a full ride, then obviously UT easily. I just think its closer than people make it out to be if it really is a free degree.

I don't think you could get a full ride from U of H without getting some money from Texas, based on last year's LSN.

[romothesavior]

If that's true, then UT.

[snehpets]

the highest scholarship U of H gave on LSN last year was $60,000 over three years. in-state tuition and fees for fall 2011 was $28,129.

also it seems at least somewhat likely that this a hypothetical scholarship anyway, so

[Richie Tenenbaum]

UT on the other hand gives you a great chance at anything in texas and the grading distribution there (very cluttered near median) allows you to use your personal skills during interviews to make up for any lesser grades.

Huh? I always thought that UT has a pretty spread out curve. (For class 2014: top 25% was 3.63 and top 50% was 3.35.) What makes you think it is cluttered near median?

[Stanford4Me]

wow, more bad advice. 0Ls need to stop spouting bad advice that could potentially ruin someone's future career. i stopped reading after "based on anecdotal". do you realize how much of a gap there is between UT and UH in terms of placement and opportunities? it is not even comparable.

I'm a 2L, you're a 0L. If anyone needs to shut the fuck up, its you.

Amen, brother.



OP, this is a tough situation. Obviously, UT gives you a stronger chance at employment. A lot of the people I SA'd with over this past summer were from UT. Only a handfull were from regional schools (SMU). You'll have to consider what you want to do with your career and how debt can affect your choices and prospects. It's a lot easier to tell someone to take on $150K+ in debt when you're a 0L who doesn't really understand (or at least hasn't taken the time to understand) how much money that is. I chose NYU with $ over UT with $$$. Even though I have secured a job, I still look at the amount of debt I'll have and constantly wonder "what if..."

Obviously my post has no real answer, but just a few things to consider.

[hookem7]

U of H tuition has also increased quite a bit and could likely continue to do so in the future (not to say that Texas won't), which could make scholarship money negligible in this conversation. I also would not assume a full ride to U of H looking at their LSN in years past.

[ctm823]

Thanks for all the info so far. U of H hasn't given out scholarships yet but based on last years threads and scholarships from similarily ranked schools $112k from SMU, scholarships to Tulane etc. I think I could negotiate, if I don't receive a good scholarship from UH. As far as UT I have a received similar and betteracceptances but really no negotiating power in the T14. I want to live in Houston. I enjoy Houston and Austin both a ton, so where I want to live for three years isn't going to swing the vote. I would live with my parents so everything but going out and gas would be paid for. I'm a CPA right now so I am hoping that experience will give me some leverage and help with getting a job after school. I am interested in corporate law or going the oil and gas law - I believe in most cases its naive to know what youre doing before even being a 1L - which is another reason that makes this decision so tough. If I knew exactly what area I could call different recruiters in that area. Which I plan on doing anyway - contacting Oil and gas companies/firms (in house or for firms), my friends from UT just graduated and is making 170k+ already and says UT is the only way to go, but my dad and 3+ of my friends parents do better than I could hope and all are UH grads. So again, massive uncertainty when facing so much potential debt and or loss of opportunity.

[ctm823]

Also please don't take this the wrong way - I know I can't predict my law school grades etc but for the sake of argument, I am fairly confident with being in the top 15% of my class at UH.

[snehpets]

Thanks for all the info so far. U of H hasn't given out scholarships yet but based on last years threads and scholarships from similarily ranked schools $112k from SMU, scholarships to Tulane etc. I think I could negotiate, if I don't receive a good scholarship from UH. As far as UT I have a received similar and betteracceptances but really no negotiating power in the T14. I want to live in Houston. I enjoy Houston and Austin both a ton, so where I want to live for three years isn't going to swing the vote. I would live with my parents so everything but going out and gas would be paid for. I'm a CPA right now so I am hoping that experience will give me some leverage and help with getting a job after school. I am interested in corporate law or going the oil and gas law - I believe in most cases its naive to know what youre doing before even being a 1L - which is another reason that makes this decision so tough. If I knew exactly what area I could call different recruiters in that area. Which I plan on doing anyway - contacting Oil and gas companies/firms (in house or for firms), my friends from UT just graduated and is making 170k+ already and says UT is the only way to go, but my dad and 3+ of my friends parents do better than I could hope and all are UH grads. So again, massive uncertainty when facing so much potential debt and or loss of opportunity.

FWIW, it's probably better to look at your friend that just graduated from UT than it is to look at your friends' parents. They graduated in a completely different world/economy, which makes a huge difference.

[romothesavior]

Also please don't take this the wrong way - I know I can't predict my law school grades etc but for the sake of argument, I am fairly confident with being in the top 15% of my class at UH.

I am going to take this the only way there is to take it. No you aren't. This is just a horrible mindset going into law school. Get this thought out of your head right now.

Absent a full ride or close to it (which, as other posters have pointed out, will probably not happen), I think this is UT easily.

[TJISMYHERO]

Also please don't take this the wrong way - I know I can't predict my law school grades etc but for the sake of argument, I am fairly confident with being in the top 15% of my class at UH.

I am going to take this the only way there is to take it. No you aren't. This is just a horrible mindset going into law school. Get this thought out of your head right now. .

I disagree. Confidence is important. Working very hard and very smart is just as important. I was confident as hell that I was going to get top 10%, worked my fucking ass off and got top 2%. So while it may be a horrible mindset for the majority of people, obviously a majority won't be in the top 10%, some people with incredible drive and determination can "just make it happen."

OP should still go to UT though.

[romothesavior]

Also please don't take this the wrong way - I know I can't predict my law school grades etc but for the sake of argument, I am fairly confident with being in the top 15% of my class at UH.

I am going to take this the only way there is to take it. No you aren't. This is just a horrible mindset going into law school. Get this thought out of your head right now. .

I disagree. Confidence is important. Working very hard and very smart is just as important. I was confident as hell that I was going to get top 10%, worked my fucking ass off and got top 2%. So while it may be a horrible mindset for the majority of people, obviously a majority won't be in the top 10%, some people with incredible drive and determination can "just make it happen."

OP should still go to UT though.

Confidence can be fine as a motivator once you are in law school, but not as a factor in the decision to go. There are going to be hundreds of people in every law school class with similar credentials, similar motivation, and similar work ethic. It's great that it worked out for you, but I could link you to lots of threads here on TLS of people who were also confident in their 1L chances and got median-pwned. What you "think" you can do in law school exams should be a nonfactor in decisionmaking.

Also, I know just as many people with great grades who were scared shitless and used that as motivation as I do people who were cockstrong and got good grades. The correlation between confidence and good grades is probably about zero.

[zanzbar]

Also please don't take this the wrong way - I know I can't predict my law school grades etc but for the sake of argument, I am fairly confident with being in the top 15% of my class at UH.

A lot of people will probably berate you for this statement, but honestly whats the point of going to law school expecting to be in the bottom 25%? I am also looking at U of H next year and I think I can get in the top 20-25%, and I base this off purely past academic achievement. I don't understand why TLS is so negative when it comes to people having confidence in their own ability.

Also, a lot of my family works in the Oil and Chemical industry in Houston and they sometimes work with the legal departments along with some big firms in Texas, New Mexico, and Louisiana. From what I have heard Houston has some pretty good job prospects even for those that miss out on big law. If you can get into these legal departments you will take a paycut, but you can get a lot of benefits that some law firms don't offer (insurance, 401k, stock options, etc.) Another added benefit of the legal department of a company is you do have a life outside of work.

[ctm823]

Also please don't take this the wrong way - I know I can't predict my law school grades etc but for the sake of argument, I am fairly confident with being in the top 15% of my class at UH.

I am going to take this the only way there is to take it. No you aren't. This is just a horrible mindset going into law school. Get this thought out of your head right now. .

I disagree. Confidence is important. Working very hard and very smart is just as important. I was confident as hell that I was going to get top 10%, worked my fucking ass off and got top 2%. So while it may be a horrible mindset for the majority of people, obviously a majority won't be in the top 10%, some people with incredible drive and determination can "just make it happen."

OP should still go to UT though.

Confidence can be fine as a motivator once you are in law school, but not as a factor in the decision to go. There are going to be hundreds of people in every law school class with similar credentials, similar motivation, and similar work ethic. It's great that it worked out for you, but I could link you to lots of threads here on TLS of people who were also confident in their 1L chances and got median-pwned. What you "think" you can do in law school exams should be a nonfactor in decisionmaking.

Also, I know just as many people with great grades who were scared shitless and used that as motivation as I do people who were cockstrong and got good grades. The correlation between confidence and good grades is probably about zero.

I agree and every single class I've ever taken I go through the same cycle where I believe everyone is more qualified, I get scared and then work my ass off. I am just saying I believe in my work-ethic more than my ability because everyone will be smart. I just know how far I can push myself to make it happen. And I only brought it up because I wanted to get perspective on employment opportunities for the top of the class at UH vs median. I guess the question is more if you can work your ass off and be at the top of the class at UH will you have the same opportunities as UT....if so I would take the money and do whatever it takes to make that happen.

[pupperoni]

even if UH was free, the fact that you would have to be top 15% for biglaw is a scary scenario. even if you were below median at UT, you would still have a decent chance based on interviewing skills and such, but with UH, you are done if you don't rank very highly.

[spleenworship]

Also please don't take this the wrong way - I know I can't predict my law school grades etc but for the sake of argument, I am fairly confident with being in the top 15% of my class at UH.

NO. This is wrong. Absolutely wrong. I have 3 classmates who were above the top 25% on LSAT and GPA in my school: One in top 10%, One in top third, One at Median. I went in expecting to pwn, barely made top third.

If you count on this, you will lose.

Also, UT... for the love of gawd, UT.

ETA: I have a classmate who was at 25% for GPA, Median for LSAT----> top 15%.

TOTALLY UNPREDICTABLE.

[spleenworship]

I disagree. Confidence is important. Working very hard and very smart is just as important. I was confident as hell that I was going to get top 10%, worked my fucking ass off and got top 2%. So while it may be a horrible mindset for the majority of people, obviously a majority won't be in the top 10%, some people with incredible drive and determination can "just make it happen."

Bolded is correct. 90% of people won't be in the top 10%.

The rest is anecdotal, and probably useless for OP.