UNT Law Forum

[eastdallas1]

Most law students try to build the strongest possible resume in order to maximize their employment options post-graduation. OP is going against the grain by putting all of his/her eggs in a couple of baskets.

OP's plan depnds on the following:

1. Job is waiting for OP regardless of school rank/performance.
2. People promising OP job will still be in a position of power in 2016 (tbf, OP implies one firm is owned by a family member).
3. UNT will have affordable tuition.
4. UNT will open in 2013.
5. UNT will have a PT program.

Lots of sh!t can wrong with this master plan.

I am fully ingrained in the Texas legal profession.

Those stats on NALP are not always reflected in real life and I have heard are skewed by some odd hiring practices initiated by SMU.

I am sure there are some SMU grads that make $160K right off the bat - but I have not come across any.

Maybe I'm just a skeptical asshole, but something isn't adding up here.

How is it even possible for *SMU* to skew NALP data?

I am not suggesting SMU is a job prospect powerhouse but I'm struggling to comprehend how somebody who is "fully ingrained in the Texas legal profession" hasn't "come across" any of the SMU grads hired at firms like V&E, F&J, H&B, K&LG, AG, AK, etc....

FTR, I am one of the biggest proponents of attending a lower ranked school to save on cost. Worst case scenario, OP is out the cost of tuition and continues in his/her paralegal position. Go to UNT as long as you can live with the worst scenario.

Just trying to be honest and get some advice but it seems I have run into a bunch of 23 year olds (for the most part) that have not worked in the legal profession yet - aside from clerkships. Why are you skeptical of what I am saying on an anonymous forum? What would I have to gain by making any of this up? Actually I found nothing on NALP that said the median or mean salary of a SMU grad straight out of school is $160K - can you show me where it said that? And I know tons of lawyers and actually help with training new associates at my firm and none of them were offered anywhere near $160K from any firm in Dallas. Sure someone out there could have gotten that but it cannot be the median or average salary. No way.

[kalvano]

I'm not sure if it matters or if it makes it worse, but it won't be UNT, it will be UNT-Dallas. You know, a start-up law school from a start-up university.

Uh, UNT has been around for about 122 years. Hardly a start-up school. UNT-Dallas is simply a Dallas location for the Denton-located school.

UNT has been around since 1890.

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

Don't go to UNT. Instead, spend as much time as you would as a part time student studying exclusively for the LSAT. Retake and reapply to SMU next cycle and get $$$. Well worth it

[eastdallas1]

I'm not sure if it matters or if it makes it worse, but it won't be UNT, it will be UNT-Dallas. You know, a start-up law school from a start-up university.

Uh, UNT has been around for about 122 years. Hardly a start-up school. UNT-Dallas is simply a Dallas location for the Denton-located school.

Maybe they aren't from around here - the law school is a branch of the University of North Texas in Denton not a separate school or an off-shoot of a new school. Yes UNT is 122 years old - not an imaginary school in the least.

[flexityflex86]

has TLS considered opening a law school. sure profit.

[Stanford4Me]

UNT has been around since 1890.

Yes, I know that.

UNT Dallas =/= UNT, from my understanding.

Either way, it doesn't matter because the LS is, of course, with UNT.

[Redfactor]

.

[ebo]

For the .01% of 0Ls who have six-figure jobs waiting for them after law school with no strings attached, UNT is right choice over SMU. Hell, if this scenario is to be believed, UNT is the right choice over pretty much anywhere.

[Grond]

UNT has been around since 1890.

Yes, I know that.

UNT Dallas =/= UNT, from my understanding.

Either way, it doesn't matter because the LS is, of course, with UNT.

You are right and Kalvano is wrong, in that UNT-Dallas is going to be a separate university: http://www.unt.edu/unt-dallas/about.htm

My understanding is that unt-Dallas will have the law school, not unt: http://untsystem.unt.edu/lawschool-2/index.html

[kalvano]

It's still part of UNT currently. And even after it becomes a separately accredited institution, it won't matter. It will still be a part of the UNT system. Hence it will still carry the UNT name, which is pretty good in D/FW.

[Grond]

It's still part of UNT currently. And even after it becomes a separately accredited institution, it won't matter. It will still be a part of the UNT system. Hence it will still carry the UNT name, which is pretty good in D/FW.

I don't think if UT-Arlington started a law school it would have the same prestige as UT-Austin's law school. But that was my original question, which was would the affiliation with unt-Dallas rather than with unt matter.

Upon further review, I guess what will matter is that it will be cheaper, easy to get into, and located in downtown Dallas. (I hope that sentence construction didn't get Vampire Weekend upset. But I digress.) My next question is how badly will this f with Weslyan. I'm thinking a lot.

[billyez]

For the .01% of 0Ls who have six-figure jobs waiting for them after law school with no strings attached, UNT is right choice over SMU. Hell, if this scenario is to be believed, UNT is the right choice over pretty much anywhere.

I agree. The OP is in a unique situation. If a JD is all that is necessary and a job is already lined up then UNT is the right way to go. I say that mostly because it'll be cheaper.

[kalvano]

A UNT law school is going to badly screw with Wesleyan. Regardless of whether it's UNT or UNT Dallas, the UNT name goes a lot further in Dallas and in Fort Worth. I bet it starts as TTTT but moves up moderately quickly. A lot of the courthouses are filled with UNT undergrads, and so are a lot of small and mid-sized firms.

It will never be on the level of SMU in Dallas, but I don't think, even from the start, it will be as poorly regarded as Wesleyan.

[eastdallas1]

Okay - well I got a few good posts that actually helped me - mostly the last three. I will wait and see if I get into SMU this cycle and if I do then I will go. If I don't then I am going to apply in October for next year since I have to wait another year to apply to UNT anyway- if I don't get in again then I am going to go to UNT Law when it opens. I feel very confident that I will have a good job as long as I get my JD - if I wasn't confident in that then I wouldn't be considering this. Sorry if that offends someone - wasn't trying to offend - just get advice. I agree that it will quickly be better than Wes. My situation is not common but when you have a family to worry about you have to think about all aspects of a situation like this. I need to be prudent and not cause my family to be under undue financial stress. If UNT Law was not about to exist I guess I would just keep trying to go to SMU but I would be under a lot of stress thinking about how long I would be paying off those loans. If UNT costs what I think it will then I can probably just find a way to pay outright and not have any loans. That would free me up to do what I want to do a lot sooner. You have to admit 14 years great legal work experience (by then) probably will make me easier to hire just about anywhere (even if I don't know the hiring committee). You just don't come out of law school knowing how to do the work I know how to do at this point. Thanks for the advice.

[rad21]

For what it's worth, I received the following email from them in January:

Thank you for your interest in the UNT Dallas College of Law. We are still programming the building, and programming for classes will not start until the dean is hired. However at the present time, there are university classes in our building at night and there may not be space for night classes the first few years after the law school begins. Please watch our UNT System web site for updates as we will be working on this issue.

Best,
Cynthia

[eastdallas1]

For what it's worth, I received the following email from them in January:

Thank you for your interest in the UNT Dallas College of Law. We are still programming the building, and programming for classes will not start until the dean is hired. However at the present time, there are university classes in our building at night and there may not be space for night classes the first few years after the law school begins. Please watch our UNT System web site for updates as we will be working on this issue.

Best,
Cynthia

Thank you for posting that - it is helpful to know that. Based on that info, I may just have to go to SMU. Are you planning on UNT law?

[rad21]

Like you, I don't really have the option of moving out of Dallas, so I was considering all my options. But I was accepted at SMU, so I'll be going there. Best of luck.