URGENT: W&M (60K scholarship) vs Cardozo (full ride)? Forum

[Exeter]

I visited both schools and loved Cardozo, but was less enthusiastic about W&M (bc I really don't want to live in Williamsburg). On the other hand, NYC may be a distraction from my studies and W-burg may be more bearable once I establish a social support network...in the short term, I'd prefer to be at Cardozo, but long term W&M just may keep more doors open? Leaning toward the practical choice of W&M...

Rationally, I feel the best choice is W&M. Emotionally, I am leaning toward Cardozo.

Any and all feedback would be greatly appreciated!!!


*Emailed Duke & haven't heard back yet.

Any news from Dukeville?

[ahduth]

*Emailed Duke & haven't heard back yet.

Coming back to this again... I would call them. Conversations are 1000x more effective for "exceptional" stuff like this.

[bubbletea]

i'm scared of debt, though...duke+100K+debt!!!!

[Exeter]

i'm scared of debt, though...duke+100K+debt!!!!

I would give you every scholarship I have + every acceptance for your Duke acceptance

[NYC Law]

Picking Cardozo over Duke when you want big law isn't being risk averse, it's being retarded.

And I know you probably think you can be slick and go Cardozo debt free, graduate top of the class since they're obviously so beneath you intellectually, and land a biglaw job with no debt. The reason we're telling you this is an awful idea is because many have tried this before, realized they're not so hot at law exams in comparison to everyone else (and that there actually are a good chunk of other highly intelligent students there, many of whom had the same idea), fail fucktastically at the plan and end up around median and can't find a job.

There is no shortcut with this, if you want biglaw, go to a good school and stop trying to work the system.

[Exeter]

Picking Cardozo over Duke when you want big law isn't being risk averse, it's being retarded.

And I know you probably think you can be slick and go Cardozo debt free, graduate top of the class since they're obviously so beneath you intellectually, and land a biglaw job with no debt. The reason we're telling you this is an awful idea is because many have tried this before, realized they're not so hot at law exams in comparison to everyone else (and that there actually are a good chunk of other highly intelligent students there, many of whom had the same idea), fail fucktastically at the plan and end up around median and can't find a job.

There is no shortcut with this, if you want biglaw, go to a good school and stop trying to work the system.

+7

[bubbletea]

I just received word that I have until the end of the day to make my deposit to Duke!!!!

I am still conflicted, though, because if I suck at ls exams and end up in the bottom half of the class at Duke, I'm stuck paying off $100K debt with a public interest salary (and I have no interest in public service). If I go to W&M & suck at ls exams, at least I have less debt and still a name with some national recognition. Right?

If I rock law school exams, will being in the top 1/4 at W&M afford me similar opportunities to being in the top 1/2 at Duke? Or is this really a no-brainer--T14 all the way?

Thanks again or all of your feedback! I really appreciate it.

[crit_racer]

omg just go to duke. it's THE right choice.

[splitmuch]

Flame?

[bubbletea]

Duke is the right choice for big law...but if i end up hating big law and want to do something else that isn't related to law after a couple years, then what?

As much as I want to go to Duke, family/friends tell me that unless I'm 100% sure I want to have a legal career for life, I shouldn't assume so much debt. Even if I do my best at Duke and don't end up in the top 1/2 of the class, I'm pretty much SOL financially, right?

Anecdotal rant: I'm a bit jaded re:T14 schools because I have over 10 friends that just graduated from UVA law and are jobless and desperate. UVa is paying graduates w/o jobs a $13,000 "fellowship" in order to boost their at graduation employment statistics. Many of the students I know with jobs are stuck with public interest gigs paying equivalent to minimum wage.

[quakeroats]

Cardozo: (raw placements/% of Class of 2012)
V10 2 / <1%
V25 9 / 2.5%
V50 14 / 3.9%
V100 20 / 5.7%
NALP 28 / 8.0%

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=156483

[bubbletea]

Cardozo: (raw placements/% of Class of 2012)
V10 2 / <1%
V25 9 / 2.5%
V50 14 / 3.9%
V100 20 / 5.7%
NALP 28 / 8.0%

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=156483

Thanks for this...I've pretty much ruled out Cardozo at this point, so it's a toss up between W&M and Duke.

[NYC Law]

I just received word that I have until the end of the day to make my deposit to Duke!!!!

I am still conflicted, though, because if I suck at ls exams and end up in the bottom half of the class at Duke, I'm stuck paying off $100K debt with a public interest salary (and I have no interest in public service). If I go to W&M & suck at ls exams, at least I have less debt and still a name with some national recognition. Right?

If I rock law school exams, will being in the top 1/4 at W&M afford me similar opportunities to being in the top 1/2 at Duke? Or is this really a no-brainer--T14 all the way?

Thanks again or all of your feedback! I really appreciate it.

Top 1/2 at Duke >>>>>>>>>> Top 1/4 at W&M

[quakeroats]

Cardozo: (raw placements/% of Class of 2012)
V10 2 / <1%
V25 9 / 2.5%
V50 14 / 3.9%
V100 20 / 5.7%
NALP 28 / 8.0%

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=156483

Thanks for this...I've pretty much ruled out Cardozo at this point, so it's a toss up between W&M and Duke.

Duke self reported 2L data
V10=10%
V25=25%
V50=35%,
V100=55%
NALP=65%

[AP-375]

Duke is the right choice for big law...but if i end up hating big law and want to do something else that isn't related to law after a couple years, then what?

Please call Duke, and tell them that you would like to transfer your acceptance to TLS user: AP-375.

Regardless, make the freaking deposit at Duke, MAKE THE FREAKING DEPOSIT AT DUKE, and then sort out your life questions and make a final decision over the next few weeks.

(Also, a huge percentage of people experience the above scenario in big law: work a ton, make a ton, hate life, hate life more, leave and do something else that they enjoy with a prestigious firm on their resume. And that's worst-case scenario.)

[AP-375]

Top 1/2 at Duke >>>>>>>>>> Top 1/4 at W&M

Not only is top half at Duke ">>>>>>>>>>", it's also statistically twice as likely.
If you think you can just get top 1/4 at W&M because it's lower-ranked, that's not wise. You're competing against a similar class, minus a few correct LSAT bubbles and .2-4 GPA points.

[folkitup123]

Looking to NLJ placement percentages as a means of determining said graduate's chance of employment in NLJ firms assumes that, across the board, the same number of graduates apply for these positions. I call shenanigans.

[NYC Law]

Looking to NLJ placement percentages as a means of determining said graduate's chance of employment in NLJ firms assumes that, across the board, the same number of graduates apply for these positions. I call shenanigans.

I know what you're getting at, and it only really applies to Yale.

[AP-375]

Looking to NLJ placement percentages as a means of determining said graduate's chance of employment in NLJ firms assumes that, across the board, the same number of graduates apply for these positions. I call shenanigans.

I know what you're getting at, and it only really applies to Yale.

I also took this as a factor in choosing w&m, which has a higher than anverage percentage of students pursuing public interest and government.

[folkitup123]

Looking to NLJ placement percentages as a means of determining said graduate's chance of employment in NLJ firms assumes that, across the board, the same number of graduates apply for these positions. I call shenanigans.

I know what you're getting at, and it only really applies to Yale.

I also took this as a factor in choosing w&m, which has a higher than anverage percentage of students pursuing public interest and government.

As a lifelong resident of the NY-metro area I opted to attend a LS located far away from the NY-metro area as to ensure that I'd never have to work in 'biglaw' to secure a comfortable lifestyle. I doubt I'm alone here. Many of us transplants never wanted the heat and therefore left the kitchen.

[bubbletea]

I loved NYC when I visited and would be happy there, despite the high stress, crippling income tax and ridiculous cost of living. However, Cardozo just seems to be an unwise choice given the rankings. I suppose future career prospects>>>present quality of life

[ahduth]

I just received word that I have until the end of the day to make my deposit to Duke!!!!

I am still conflicted, though, because if I suck at ls exams and end up in the bottom half of the class at Duke, I'm stuck paying off $100K debt with a public interest salary (and I have no interest in public service). If I go to W&M & suck at ls exams, at least I have less debt and still a name with some national recognition. Right?

If I rock law school exams, will being in the top 1/4 at W&M afford me similar opportunities to being in the top 1/2 at Duke? Or is this really a no-brainer--T14 all the way?

Thanks again or all of your feedback! I really appreciate it.

PI is just as hard to get into as big law?

W&M is not an alternative to Duke. If you don't think you can afford to pay for Duke, don't go.

[quakeroats]

I just received word that I have until the end of the day to make my deposit to Duke!!!!

I am still conflicted, though, because if I suck at ls exams and end up in the bottom half of the class at Duke, I'm stuck paying off $100K debt with a public interest salary (and I have no interest in public service). If I go to W&M & suck at ls exams, at least I have less debt and still a name with some national recognition. Right?

If I rock law school exams, will being in the top 1/4 at W&M afford me similar opportunities to being in the top 1/2 at Duke? Or is this really a no-brainer--T14 all the way?

Thanks again or all of your feedback! I really appreciate it.

PI is just as hard to get into as big law?

W&M is not an alternative to Duke. If you don't think you can afford to pay for Duke, don't go.

If you go to Duke and are in the bottom half of your class you can still get a big law job. If you're in the bottom quarter you can get a smaller law job or take a PI position. At Duke you'll have IBR + our LRAP. What this means is that if you make below a certain amount (something around 60 if memory serves) and are working in PI or government, Duke pays all your student loans for you. Basically, as long as you want to be a lawyer, you can't really lose at Duke.

[bk1]

If you go to Duke and are in the bottom half of your class you can still get a big law job. If you're in the bottom quarter you can get a smaller law job or take a PI position. At Duke you'll have IBR + our LRAP. What this means is that if you make below a certain amount (something around 60 if memory serves) and are working in PI or government, Duke pays all your student loans for you. Basically, as long as you want to be a lawyer, you can't really lose at Duke.

Are you seriously trying to imply that at T14 schools there aren't grads who are struggling under a mountain of sticker priced debt?

[quakeroats]

If you go to Duke and are in the bottom half of your class you can still get a big law job. If you're in the bottom quarter you can get a smaller law job or take a PI position. At Duke you'll have IBR + our LRAP. What this means is that if you make below a certain amount (something around 60 if memory serves) and are working in PI or government, Duke pays all your student loans for you. Basically, as long as you want to be a lawyer, you can't really lose at Duke.

Are you seriously trying to imply that at T14 schools there aren't grads who are struggling under a mountain of sticker priced debt?

Try as I might, I can't stop people from attending Michigan.

Joking aside, I'm only speaking for Duke. We have small classes, strong placement, and a lot of programs to help students who don't do very well. N.b. that I limited my earlier statement to students who want to be lawyers. All bets are off if you decide you'd rather do something else a few years in.