Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU Forum

[deadpanic]

how much is mcgeorge at sticker? i can't give an answer to that one yet, but:

seattle is not a great choice because

1. tuition price is still too much debt
2. seattle is one of the most expensive cities in the country

USF & SCU are nowhere near worth sticker (even with living expenses paid for at USF)

[risktaker]

For McG, I would probably be looking at 125-130 k in loans factoring in the scholly. Seattle would be around the same because tuition is a little cheaper, but it will probably be closer to 130k. USF would be around 125K. Santa Clara would be insane without a scholly and I don't think I will go there. I am actually considering whether commuting to Sac would be worth it. It's like an hour and 20 to drive to Sac from where my parents live, but it would significantly cut the cost. If I lived at home while attending McG, I would be looking at 95k in loans.

[risktaker]

Actually did some math and realized that it would cost me almost 16k over the course of three years for gas and toll if I commuted to Sac 5 days a week each year. Not worth living at home for that when I could have my own place for 8k more.

[Grizz]

At those prices, don't go, but if you do go, go wherever costs least.

[sarahh]

McGeorge, USF, SCU are regional schools located in an area where there are not a ton of jobs and there are a lot of people who want to live there. You are going to be competing with Stanford, Berkeley, Hastings, and Davis students, as well as students from other top schools. If you go to one of these schools, chances are that you will wind up in a non-legal job with a ton of debt. I know of someone who went to Harvard that struck out in the Bay Area. My company just hired a Berkeley Law grad for an entry-level position that you only need a BA for. Things are bad. If you don't think you can do better on the LSAT, I would just get a job and skip law school.

[dr123]

Keep them coming. This is very helpful.

I had no clue that Seattle was a "meth capital". Is this for real? Is it prevalent in the outskirts of Seattle or are there crack heads and meth addicts roaming around downtown Seattle?

If anything Seattle's the heroin capital, Yakima is the meth capital

[risktaker]

McGeorge, USF, SCU are regional schools located in an area where there are not a ton of jobs and there are a lot of people who want to live there. You are going to be competing with Stanford, Berkeley, Hastings, and Davis students, as well as students from other top schools. If you go to one of these schools, chances are that you will wind up in a non-legal job with a ton of debt. I know of someone who went to Harvard that struck out in the Bay Area. My company just hired a Berkeley Law grad for an entry-level position that you only need a BA for. Things are bad. If you don't think you can do better on the LSAT, I would just get a job and skip law school.

Just because you go to Berkeley or Harvard does not make you impervious to the terrible legal market. I am sure these people were below median or did not know how to interview well. For all it's worth, just assume, I will do well enough to be in the top 25% of my class then decide which law school I should pick. I am no slacker and I know how to bust my ass. I know that hard work does not always equate to success in law school, but I am confident that closing down the library every night and going to office hours of professors will help me end up at least in the top 25%.

[DB1]

Seattle is hardly a "meth capitol". It is a world class city with a thriving art/music/theater scene. It is visually beautiful - really, enough to lift your mood on a bad day. The SIFF is ongoing at the moment bringing films from all over the world. The food is amazing. It has the most literate population in the country as well as a really high percentage of people who know CPR!? Seattle has all the problems of a big city; chronically homeless/mentally ill people, but Seattle also has an active commitment to serve these populations. I say this as a social worker and resident for the last 20 years. I have my gripes about Seattle, being an east coast transplant, but really, if anyone is painting the picture that Seattle a dangerous place to live is misinformed. I don't know about the police officer, perhaps he/she is only seeing the dark side of the city and is jaded. I live in the "hood" and have never been bothered. Trouble, I've found, usually finds peole who are looking for it.

Now, SU. It's definitely a regional school, but if you want to stay in the region (not a bad place to live if you don't mind the rain), it's well respected. I have met both students, alumni, and professors and they have all been bright, passionate people.

Personally, I am attending U.WA this fall due to the in state tuition advantage, but were I younger and had more time to pay off debt, SU would have been a serious consideration.

Im not going to hijack this kids thread or try to change the subject, but I will post this info I received from the Washington Attorney Generals office, while taking a training class up in Seattle about a year ago.

#
“The production, transportation, distribution, and abuse of methamphetamine” are the primary drug threat to the Pacific Region” (National Drug Intelligence Center [NDIC], 2005).
#
92.3% of law enforcement agencies in the region report that methamphetamine is the “greatest drug threat” in their jurisdictions. (National Drug Threat Survey, 2004).

Methamphetamine has impacted the entire Pacific Region, but Washington has been hardest hit with:

*
Nearly twice the number of methamphetamine labs reported than Oregon and exponentially more than Idaho and Alaska. (Reports of 951 labs, compared to 474 in Oregon, 67 in Alaska, and only 43 in Idaho just by the 3rd quarter of 2004) (Department of Ecology [DOE]).
*
The highest amount of Federal Drug Seizures of methamphetamine in the pacific region. (Federal Law Enforcement in 2003 seized 205.7 kilograms of methamphetamine in Washington, compared to 40.4 in Oregon, 78.0 in California, and 53.0 in Idaho) (NDIC, 2005).
*
Higher levels of availability of the drug resulting in lower prices than any other state (NDIC, 2005).

[risktaker]

Would appreciate some help from law students who go to the schools that I am considering. I know there are some out there.

[dr123]

Seattle is hardly a "meth capitol". It is a world class city with a thriving art/music/theater scene. It is visually beautiful - really, enough to lift your mood on a bad day. The SIFF is ongoing at the moment bringing films from all over the world. The food is amazing. It has the most literate population in the country as well as a really high percentage of people who know CPR!? Seattle has all the problems of a big city; chronically homeless/mentally ill people, but Seattle also has an active commitment to serve these populations. I say this as a social worker and resident for the last 20 years. I have my gripes about Seattle, being an east coast transplant, but really, if anyone is painting the picture that Seattle a dangerous place to live is misinformed. I don't know about the police officer, perhaps he/she is only seeing the dark side of the city and is jaded. I live in the "hood" and have never been bothered. Trouble, I've found, usually finds peole who are looking for it.

Now, SU. It's definitely a regional school, but if you want to stay in the region (not a bad place to live if you don't mind the rain), it's well respected. I have met both students, alumni, and professors and they have all been bright, passionate people.

Personally, I am attending U.WA this fall due to the in state tuition advantage, but were I younger and had more time to pay off debt, SU would have been a serious consideration.

Im not going to hijack this kids thread or try to change the subject, but I will post this info I received from the Washington Attorney Generals office, while taking a training class up in Seattle about a year ago.

#
“The production, transportation, distribution, and abuse of methamphetamine” are the primary drug threat to the Pacific Region” (National Drug Intelligence Center [NDIC], 2005).
#
92.3% of law enforcement agencies in the region report that methamphetamine is the “greatest drug threat” in their jurisdictions. (National Drug Threat Survey, 2004).

Methamphetamine has impacted the entire Pacific Region, but Washington has been hardest hit with:

*
Nearly twice the number of methamphetamine labs reported than Oregon and exponentially more than Idaho and Alaska. (Reports of 951 labs, compared to 474 in Oregon, 67 in Alaska, and only 43 in Idaho just by the 3rd quarter of 2004) (Department of Ecology [DOE]).
*
The highest amount of Federal Drug Seizures of methamphetamine in the pacific region. (Federal Law Enforcement in 2003 seized 205.7 kilograms of methamphetamine in Washington, compared to 40.4 in Oregon, 78.0 in California, and 53.0 in Idaho) (NDIC, 2005).
*
Higher levels of availability of the drug resulting in lower prices than any other state (NDIC, 2005).

Dude thats for Washington state, Eastern and Southwestern WA is where all the tweakers are. Seattle is full of dope fiends though, esp North Seattle

[risktaker]

Seattle employs 92.1% of their graduates in bar admission required positions while McGeorge employs 81% of their graduates in bar admission required positions. These stats don't seem too bad to me.

47% of graduates employed in law firms for McGeorge, and 48% of graduates employed in law firms for Seattle.

I know the numbers for USF and SCU are horrendous though but McGeorge and SU's numbers are not too shabby.

People who go to any of these schools feel free to chime in please.

[SchopenhauerFTW]

Are you sure you have no preference about which state you want to end up working in?

ETA: Probably a dumb question after you posted those stats and made it explicit in your original post.

[PDaddy]

You shouldn't go to any of these schools.

McGeorge might be a decent option. There's some money there, guaranteed for three years, and it can be increased with strong performance. It's a Cali school, so that would obviously be a plus.

SU: Although one can receive a great education at SU, it offers terrible job prospects even in a good economy, and since there are only three law schools in the state of Washington, the academic competition there is stiff...VERY STIFF! Many SU students would do well at top-50 (or even top-30) schools, but they want to live and work in Seattle. Many come from the University of Washington, a top university. The out-of-state students at SU are also intent on living and practicing in Seattle, so the school trumped other, arguably better, choices. In Seattle, you have to compete with T14 grads, UW grads, top U of O grads, top Gonzaga grads and some other graduates from top-20's like UCLA, USC, Vandy, and Texas. And the firms in the Seattle market are not hiring.

USF and SCU: OP is WL'd at these schools, so who knows what will happen. WL'd students do get scholarship money on occasion, so there's a chance OP could get the same or more money at one of those schools, but it would likely come with strings...very difficult to meet strings, like 3.2 GPA to keep the scholly.

[PDaddy]

Seattle employs 92.1% of their graduates in bar admission required positions while McGeorge employs 81% of their graduates in bar admission required positions. These stats don't seem too bad to me.

47% of graduates employed in law firms for McGeorge, and 48% of graduates employed in law firms for Seattle.

I know the numbers for USF and SCU are horrendous though but McGeorge and SU's numbers are not too shabby.

People who go to any of these schools feel free to chime in please.

As a Seattle resident, I can tell you that the SU stats - if they are official - are inflated. So many SU grads are either unemployed or working in low-paying jobs that it is really sickening. Academically the school is top-notch; it arguably turns out the best legal writers in the country (no dis on Chi-Kent or Temple). Even this site proffers SU's poor employment prospects. OP should go to McGeorge, especially given the scholly conditions. I'd take a guaranteed $10K over a conditional $8K any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Hell, I'd take a guaranteed $8K over a conditional $10K. MCGEORGE!

[risktaker]

I guess you go to U of Wash PDaddy? The reason I was leaning towards SU was because I thought that McGeorge would still face some stiff competition with UC Davis. Plus, Sacramento seems like a not so great place to spend the next few years.

[DB1]

[/quote]

Dude thats for Washington state, Eastern and Southwestern WA is where all the tweakers are. Seattle is full of dope fiends though, esp North Seattle[/quote]



Im sorry, I thought Pierce County and King County were in the Sea-Tac area...

[Grizz]

Seattle employs 92.1% of their graduates in bar admission required positions while McGeorge employs 81% of their graduates in bar admission required positions. These stats don't seem too bad to me.

47% of graduates employed in law firms for McGeorge, and 48% of graduates employed in law firms for Seattle.

I know the numbers for USF and SCU are horrendous though but McGeorge and SU's numbers are not too shabby.

People who go to any of these schools feel free to chime in please.

You've been around long enough that school self-reported stats are horse shit.

[risktaker]

All I can do is find a school I like and then bust my ass to transfer out.

[Gideon Strumpet]

Why are you making a poll with options you don't have?

[jarofsoup]

Seattle employs 92.1% of their graduates in bar admission required positions while McGeorge employs 81% of their graduates in bar admission required positions. These stats don't seem too bad to me.

47% of graduates employed in law firms for McGeorge, and 48% of graduates employed in law firms for Seattle.

I know the numbers for USF and SCU are horrendous though but McGeorge and SU's numbers are not too shabby.

People who go to any of these schools feel free to chime in please.

As a Seattle resident, I can tell you that the SU stats - if they are official - are inflated. So many SU grads are either unemployed or working in low-paying jobs that it is really sickening. Academically the school is top-notch; it arguably turns out the best legal writers in the country (no dis on Chi-Kent or Temple). Even this site proffers SU's poor employment prospects. OP should go to McGeorge, especially given the scholly conditions. I'd take a guaranteed $10K over a conditional $8K any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Hell, I'd take a guaranteed $8K over a conditional $10K. MCGEORGE!

Do they do worse than U Wash and better than Gonzaga.

How big is the public defenders office in Washington? With all these drug raids there must be some one defending them. As a future law student I see profit in this. jk

[risktaker]

gideon, don't worry about it. I am doing it because I feel I might have a shot at getting into those schools off the wait list.

[OldManHunger]

.

[Grizz]

EXACTLY. I'm in a similar situation, but I'm choosing between U of Miami ($), Florida Coastal ($$$), and Florida State (no $). But instead of useful advice, everyone just tells me not to go. Fuck that noise. OP, I'm glad you've taken a hard look at the employment statistics of the schools and done YOUR OWN research. As you say, even Harvard graduates are not immune to a bad economy. And yet schools like Seattle U and McGeorge still boast impressive employment on graduation. People on this board don't know what they're talking about; the difference between the "top schools" and other schools is vanishingly small ITE. Like you say, what you need to do is just BUCKLE DOWN, graduate at the top of your class wherever you go and succeed after that. I think if other people had your same drive, they probably wouldn't be bitching so much about scam law schools and joblessness. Hustle and networking matter more than any test number, and attitude matters more than any ranking list.

lol

1. How does "Harvard grads are not immune" = "A TT in a saturated market is a good idea."?
2. School self reported statistics are bullshit.
3. If anything, the difference between the top schools and bottom schools has gotten larger, as law is incredibly prestige obsessed. Firms love to get kids from elite schools and top regionals when they can
4. Graduating at the top of your class is easier said than done since there's a 90% chance you won't. Don't go somewhere you wouldn't be happy graduating at median from
5. Hard work is neither necessary nor sufficient for good law school grades

[Grizz]

EXACTLY. I'm in a similar situation, but I'm choosing between U of Miami ($), Florida Coastal ($$$), and Florida State (no $)

If you want to work in FL, are from FL, and can get in-state tuition, go to FSU. It will be harder to get a job in South FL but thats about it.

[inchoate_con]

Yea, UW is ranked higher, but SU has way more alumni in this "tight" market. We, ah, stick with our own kind. Dude, it's UW, relax.