Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride) Forum

[juliachild-ish]

So to sum up:

OP has very specific goals in a specific region, and doesn't want to do biglaw. Which is great and fine. However:

-OP doesn't want to go to a local school like Arizona or Arizona State where the people in OP's target job went, probably with a full scholarship
-OP doesn't want to go to a regional powerhouse school with a full scholarship, UT
-OP doesn't want to go to a T14 near an SO with a full scholarship, NU
-OP doesn't want to go to Harvard
-OP is leaning towards Berkeley at sticker

Did I get that right, OP?

Oh yeah, and OP made a "choose a school" thread without making it a poll, probably the most egregious error in judgment out of all of them.

Haha, uh...not really. I actually didn't get a full ride to ASU, weirdly enough, and the same lawyers who went to ASU/UofA have vehemently advised me not to go there. I hear that only the top 20-30 people in each class are graduating with a job these days, not the most encouraging piece of information. I have friends who are 2Ls and 3Ls at both schools, and they also have advised me to look elsewhere.

It's true that I don't want to go to Harvard. But I do want to go to UT, Northwestern, and Berkeley. I just don't know which one I want to go to the most, or which one is the most sensible decision for my future. Isn't that the point of all these threads? Balancing fit with personal obligations with cost?

Sorry about the lack of a poll! I'm not a big fan of the polls, personally, so I didn't add one. Please forgive that terrible mistake.

[09042014]

While SO shouldn't determine your school choice, if my girlfriend had a full tuition offer to the same city I was in and picked a peer school while paying sticker, I'd find a new girlfriend. Especially if I was a med student. If this is just a short relationship that isn't serious then who cares. But if plan on marrying this dude, realize that not picking Chicago is basically a fuck you to him.

What makes the most sense without regard to your irrational and spastic wants and beliefs:

Harvard (if you absolutely want to do local government stuff) > NU > Texas > Harvard (if you aren't sure what you want to do) >> Boalt.

[juliachild-ish]

Go Bears!

Thanks, r6! I keep hearing so many good things about Boalt from lawyers I know, but then I see all the Berkeley hate on these boards and it makes me think twice.

[09042014]

Go Bears!

Thanks, r6! I keep hearing so many good things about Boalt from lawyers I know, but then I see all the Berkeley hate on these boards and it makes me think twice.

It's not a bad schools. But it's no better than Northwestern, and certainly not 150K better.

[r6_philly]

Go Bears!

Thanks, r6! I keep hearing so many good things about Boalt from lawyers I know, but then I see all the Berkeley hate on these boards and it makes me think twice.

It's not a bad schools. But it's no better than Northwestern, and certainly not 150K better.

I think the criteria used to gauge schools ITT is slightly different. So it may as well be 150k better, only OP can decide.

I think, if I ONLY have 2 choices, Berkeley or NU full ride, I would either take Berkeley, or reapply to get $$ elsewhere. But I wouldn't expect to apply my reasoning/value system onto others.

[09042014]

Go Bears!

Thanks, r6! I keep hearing so many good things about Boalt from lawyers I know, but then I see all the Berkeley hate on these boards and it makes me think twice.

It's not a bad schools. But it's no better than Northwestern, and certainly not 150K better.

I think the criteria used to gauge schools ITT is slightly different. So it may as well be 150k better, only OP can decide.

I think, if I ONLY have 2 choices, Berkeley or NU full ride, I would either take Berkeley, or reapply to get $$ elsewhere. But I wouldn't expect to apply my reasoning/value system onto others.

Well there is no counting for irrationality. Unless your parole office makes you stay in NorCal it's a pretty terrible decision.

150K + 8% APR is a fuck load of money.

[juliachild-ish]

Go Bears!

Thanks, r6! I keep hearing so many good things about Boalt from lawyers I know, but then I see all the Berkeley hate on these boards and it makes me think twice.

It's not a bad schools. But it's no better than Northwestern, and certainly not 150K better.

Well, fortunately it doesn't have to be quite 150k better, since my dad is willing to pay between a third and half of my law school costs. I'm a self-sufficient adult, so I would like to minimize that contribution, but it does change the reasoning a bit. If it were all my own money, Boalt would be out of the picture. Since it's not, Boalt stays in.

And in response to Desert Fox, we've only been dating just under two years, so I'm not sure it's a married-potential type of relationship. If I choose Berkeley, we'll almost certainly break up. That would be sad, obviously, but not the end of the world to either of us.

[r6_philly]

Well there is no counting for irrationality. Unless your parole office makes you stay in NorCal it's a pretty terrible decision.

150K + 8% APR is a fuck load of money.

$545 a month for 25 years if you only make 60k, single no kids. My number is a lot lower if I only make $60k. If I make 160k then doesn't matter.

[09042014]

Go Bears!

Thanks, r6! I keep hearing so many good things about Boalt from lawyers I know, but then I see all the Berkeley hate on these boards and it makes me think twice.

It's not a bad schools. But it's no better than Northwestern, and certainly not 150K better.

Well, fortunately it doesn't have to be quite 150k better, since my dad is willing to pay between a third and half of my law school costs. I'm a self-sufficient adult, so I would like to minimize that contribution, but it does change the reasoning a bit. If it were all my own money, Boalt would be out of the picture. Since it's not, Boalt stays in.

And in response to Desert Fox, we've only been dating just under two years, so I'm not sure it's a married-potential type of relationship. If I choose Berkeley, we'll almost certainly break up. That would be sad, obviously, but not the end of the world to either of us.

Living expenses will cost you probably 70-80K over three years at both schools. You should consider that.

[09042014]

Well there is no counting for irrationality. Unless your parole office makes you stay in NorCal it's a pretty terrible decision.

150K + 8% APR is a fuck load of money.

$545 a month for 25 years if you only make 60k, single no kids. My number is a lot lower if I only make $60k. If I make 160k then doesn't matter.

545 a month for 25 years is a lot of money when you figure how much that would earn in a retirement account.

And don't fall for the "if I get big law it doesn't matter." Even if you get big law, the average is only about 3-4 years before you leave. Maybe 5 if you fight tooth and nail.

And for what? A personal preference?

[juliachild-ish]

It's not a bad schools. But it's no better than Northwestern, and certainly not 150K better.

Well, fortunately it doesn't have to be quite 150k better, since my dad is willing to pay between a third and half of my law school costs. I'm a self-sufficient adult, so I would like to minimize that contribution, but it does change the reasoning a bit. If it were all my own money, Boalt would be out of the picture. Since it's not, Boalt stays in.

And in response to Desert Fox, we've only been dating just under two years, so I'm not sure it's a married-potential type of relationship. If I choose Berkeley, we'll almost certainly break up. That would be sad, obviously, but not the end of the world to either of us.

Living expenses will cost you probably 70-80K over three years at both schools. You should consider that.

Doesn't that actually even out the difference between NU and Boalt? Either way, I have to pay cost of living, so it's not like Northwestern is free, and I know firsthand that living in Chicago is not cheap.

[czelede]

Well there is no counting for irrationality. Unless your parole office makes you stay in NorCal it's a pretty terrible decision.

150K + 8% APR is a fuck load of money.

$545 a month for 25 years if you only make 60k, single no kids. My number is a lot lower if I only make $60k. If I make 160k then doesn't matter.

545 a month for 25 years is a lot of money when you figure how much that would earn in a retirement account.

And don't fall for the "if I get big law it doesn't matter." Even if you get big law, the average is only about 3-4 years before you leave. Maybe 5 if you fight tooth and nail.

And for what? A personal preference?

While I personally wouldn't take Berkeley at sticker over NU full ride, I think personal preferences are often greatly discounted on TLS. It's still three years of your life (and for most of us, our mid-twenties) - where you are and the environment of the school you're at can make a big difference. You only go to law school once. It's not always as easy as breaking schools down by a metric. For someone who hates the cold or midwest, for instance, no amount of money may be worth spending 3 entire years of your life in the middle of both.

EDIT: OP, I would just visit all of them and make a decision from there. If B is your one and true love, things might get a little more complicated. But if you could see yourself being happy at NU, I don't see any reason not to attend and walk away with the extra money.

[sarahlawg]

Go Bears!

Thanks, r6! I keep hearing so many good things about Boalt from lawyers I know, but then I see all the Berkeley hate on these boards and it makes me think twice.

It's not a bad schools. But it's no better than Northwestern, and certainly not 150K better.

Well, fortunately it doesn't have to be quite 150k better, since my dad is willing to pay between a third and half of my law school costs. I'm a self-sufficient adult, so I would like to minimize that contribution, but it does change the reasoning a bit. If it were all my own money, Boalt would be out of the picture. Since it's not, Boalt stays in.

And in response to Desert Fox, we've only been dating just under two years, so I'm not sure it's a married-potential type of relationship. If I choose Berkeley, we'll almost certainly break up. That would be sad, obviously, but not the end of the world to either of us.

lol...you're looking for a way out, aren't you?
I'll just cross my fingers for yale/stanford for you instead of engaging in this debate.

[09042014]

It's not a bad schools. But it's no better than Northwestern, and certainly not 150K better.

Well, fortunately it doesn't have to be quite 150k better, since my dad is willing to pay between a third and half of my law school costs. I'm a self-sufficient adult, so I would like to minimize that contribution, but it does change the reasoning a bit. If it were all my own money, Boalt would be out of the picture. Since it's not, Boalt stays in.

And in response to Desert Fox, we've only been dating just under two years, so I'm not sure it's a married-potential type of relationship. If I choose Berkeley, we'll almost certainly break up. That would be sad, obviously, but not the end of the world to either of us.

Living expenses will cost you probably 70-80K over three years at both schools. You should consider that.

Doesn't that actually even out the difference between NU and Boalt? Either way, I have to pay cost of living, so it's not like Northwestern is free, and I know firsthand that living in Chicago is not cheap.

I mean if daddy is going to give you 66K-100K, NU will still end up with 130-150K less debt at the end.

[09042014]

While I personally wouldn't take Berkeley at sticker over NU full ride, I think personal preferences are often greatly discounted on TLS. It's still three years of your life (and for most of us, our mid-twenties) - where you are and the environment of the school you're at can make a big difference. You only go to law school once. It's not always as easy as breaking schools down by a metric. For someone who hates the cold or midwest, for instance, no amount of money may be worth spending 3 entire years of your life in the middle of both.

EDIT: OP, I would just visit all of them and make a decision from there. If B is your one and true love, things might get a little more complicated. But if you could see yourself being happy at NU, I don't see any reason not to attend and walk away with the extra money.

I'm all for person preferences when the decision is close. I wouldn't call someone out for taking Boalt over Uchi both at sticker.

But 150K is potentially ruinous financially.

[ArchRoark]

IMHO it is a toss-up between NU/UT, depending on your career goals. If you don't mind practicing in Texas then just go to the school that you feel is the best fit. I italicized Texas because I don't think anyone can count on securing meaningful legal employment in the over-saturated market of Austin. You may find that while you love Austin, you can't stand Dallas/Houston. If I was in your shoes, I would probably attend UT, but I am heavily biased (UT alumnus, Austin native, etc). That said, I understand that Berkley is probably the best "fit" for you, but, pragmatically, when the debt is factored in, I don't see it as a viable option. A full-ride at a T14 is hard to pass up. What are your reservations about NU? You have fantastic options, gl.

[czelede]

While I personally wouldn't take Berkeley at sticker over NU full ride, I think personal preferences are often greatly discounted on TLS. It's still three years of your life (and for most of us, our mid-twenties) - where you are and the environment of the school you're at can make a big difference. You only go to law school once. It's not always as easy as breaking schools down by a metric. For someone who hates the cold or midwest, for instance, no amount of money may be worth spending 3 entire years of your life in the middle of both.

EDIT: OP, I would just visit all of them and make a decision from there. If B is your one and true love, things might get a little more complicated. But if you could see yourself being happy at NU, I don't see any reason not to attend and walk away with the extra money.

I'm all for person preferences when the decision is close. I wouldn't call someone out for taking Boalt over Uchi both at sticker.

But 150K is potentially ruinous financially.

Having lived in a place I loathe, I could understand not taking NU if someone really, really hated it (or Chicago). But it doesn't seem like this is the situation anyhow.

[rayiner]

What makes the most sense without regard to your irrational and spastic wants and beliefs:

Harvard (if you absolutely want to do local government stuff) > NU > Texas > Harvard (if you aren't sure what you want to do) >> Boalt.

Also, I love that the indecisiveness extends to other aspects of your life:

And in response to Desert Fox, we've only been dating just under two years, so I'm not sure it's a married-potential type of relationship.

[bk1]

I read the OP. I read the back and forth between OP/r6/DF.

What I am going to say:

OP seems to place a ridiculously high amount of value on the irrational side of the decision so giving actual advice seems fucking pointless as OP probably shouldn't be asking anybody else to make the decision because we don't share her personal irrationalities.

Harvard or NU are the only real options here and it's pretty obvious why. You're already in Chicago so you seem like you can stomach it. 3 years for a good law school for free is a great deal, plus you have your SO there as well. If it is a serious relationship I don't see why you would leave to take a school that isn't really any better than NU (UT/Boalt) for more money or equal money. If it isn't serious then it shouldn't be a factor in the discussion. That being said, whether the relationship is serious or not you should be picking between Harvard and NU.

My parting words of advice to OP: buck up, stop being a little princess, and accept 3 years at a place you dislike (whether that is NU or Harvard) so that you will have much better options down the road.

[lisjjen]

Berkeley is awesome. Austin is awesome. UT is free. UT has an awesome energy program. Berkeley has an awesome everything. Northwestern is in Chicago and you want to be in Arizona. Texas and California are culturally and geographically close to Arizona. Did I leave anything out?

To me, this is entirely about how much debt you're OK taking on. The debt adverse choice is UT, the bold choice is Berkeley, the obvious choice is in the West.

[09042014]

While I personally wouldn't take Berkeley at sticker over NU full ride, I think personal preferences are often greatly discounted on TLS. It's still three years of your life (and for most of us, our mid-twenties) - where you are and the environment of the school you're at can make a big difference. You only go to law school once. It's not always as easy as breaking schools down by a metric. For someone who hates the cold or midwest, for instance, no amount of money may be worth spending 3 entire years of your life in the middle of both.

EDIT: OP, I would just visit all of them and make a decision from there. If B is your one and true love, things might get a little more complicated. But if you could see yourself being happy at NU, I don't see any reason not to attend and walk away with the extra money.

I'm all for person preferences when the decision is close. I wouldn't call someone out for taking Boalt over Uchi both at sticker.

But 150K is potentially ruinous financially.

Having lived in a place I loathe, I could understand not taking NU if someone really, really hated it (or Chicago). But it doesn't seem like this is the situation anyhow.

If they really really hated Chicago then they should take UT.

[akili]

If you don't get money from Berkeley, take UT. Austin is awesome and I honestly think you would have a pretty great shot at getting back to AZ. QOL and "happiness" in law school is pretty damn important to me and I would definitely go with your gut. (I wouldn't take Harvard either)

[bk1]

Anybody else think it's funny that OP's dad will pay for half of law school whether that amounts to $30k or $100k?

[juliachild-ish]

Yes, I'm indecisive in terms of which school to attend (aren't most people?) but not in terms of career goals. Which is why I don't really see why I need to attend, say, Harvard. I don't have very lofty career goals, so I don't necessarily need the boost that the Harvard prestige offers. I understand that both Harvard and Northwestern might open more doors, but those aren't doors that I'm really interested in, if you follow the metaphor.

rayiner, are you trying to make the point that anyone dating for two years should be planning to get married? Haha, maybe I'm getting old, but I've had multiple two-year relationships that weren't marriage material. If you like the person and are content with them, why break up? Unless it impedes your future plans, which is the decision I'm up against now.

lisjjen, I think you made a good summary, and I agree with your points.

Honestly, I do hate Chicago--I was just trying to be polite since there are many Chicagoans on here. I've been here for a year now, and haven't found much to like except the friendliness of the people (which is awesome).

[09042014]

Anybody else think it's funny that OP's dad will pay for half of law school whether that amounts to $30k or $100k?

That's why I started talking about living expenses because I don't believe that's what Daddy will do. I think he'll give as much as he can, whether she goes to Berk or NW.