Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$) Forum

[ndirish2010]

South Bend is a shit hole.

W&M FTW.

Lived here for four years and love it, you should probably come before you say things like that.

I did.

For more than a day?

[BarbellDreams]

I loved ND when I visited, its not my cup of team in terms of not being in a big city but the campus itself was pretty amazing.

[turkeysub]

.

[mettasutta]

Would any of the schools I am still waiting on that I actually have a chance (BU, BC, WUSTL) at be potentially better options for PI? Not at sticker, of course, but if I received a comparable scholarship? This would certainly complicate things!

[Kchuck]

W&M has a very solid PI reputation. So if that's what you're interested in, in the region that you're interested in, and you enjoyed the school when you visited, then what does W&M not have that you want?

[ndirish2010]

FWIW W&M has a better football team

I am not quite sure why people think this is funny. Notre Dame was 8-5 this year, defeating 7 bowl eligible teams. W&M plays in the most competitive 1AA conference, but this comparison is laughable and if we were talking about Michigan, nobody would even bring it up.

[Attorney]

South Bend is a shit hole.

W&M FTW.

Lived here for four years and love it, you should probably come before you say things like that.

I did.

Wait a minute..

[mettasutta]

W&M has a very solid PI reputation. So if that's what you're interested in, in the region that you're interested in, and you enjoyed the school when you visited, then what does W&M not have that you want?

As ndirish mentioned, although I'm not gunning for Big Law, NLJ 250 numbers are rough proxies of how the rest of the class is doing, and BC does the best of all (about 34%). Like W&M, it is in a small town location, but is close to major city.

[taxnstuff]

W&M has a theme park down the road and a budweiser brewery that gives (or used to) free beer after every tour..pretty hard to beat that.

[Stonewall]

W&M has a theme park down the road and a budweiser brewery that gives (or used to) free beer after every tour..pretty hard to beat that.

free beer?! sold.

[Attorney]

W&M has a theme park down the road and a budweiser brewery that gives (or used to) free beer after every tour..pretty hard to beat that.

free beer?! sold.

It's BUDWEISER though. Not real beer. So you're getting a beer worth about 3 cents.... for FREE!

If you value your time at all, that free beer is worth almost the time it takes them to pour it for you. But not quite.

[Attorney]

Would any of the schools I am still waiting on that I actually have a chance (BU, BC, WUSTL) at be potentially better options for PI? Not at sticker, of course, but if I received a comparable scholarship? This would certainly complicate things!

although I'm not gunning for Big Law, NLJ 250 numbers are rough proxies of how the rest of the class is doing, and BC does the best of all (about 34%). Like W&M, it is in a small town location, but is close to major city.

BC is better both for PI and Big Law. For PI it's better because its LRAP is the best outside of the T14 or so. For Big Law, well you covered that. You'd most likely be paying sticker though, so maybe this entire idea is a moot point.

The location of BC is not at all "like W&M" though. W&M is wayyyy out in the sticks. You're like 45 minutes to Hampton or whatever, but no one goes to Hampton on purpose. You're an hour or more to Richmond, and there's not a lot to do in Richmond either. It's several hours away from an actual city with, like, culture and stuff (Washington DC).

BC on the other hand is 15 or 20 minutes from the heart of Boston.

[Blindmelon]

BC on the other hand is 15 or 20 minutes from the heart of Boston.

More like 40 realistically depending on what you mean by the heart of Boston. The green line is terrible, it takes 10 mins to get downtown from BU, and about 30-40 to get to BC from here... so yea, probably 40. Especially considering the law school is a shuttle ride from the T. Contrary to popular belief, BC isn't in Boston.

BC is the best placing of the bunch you're talking about though.

[mettasutta]

Blindmelon, out of curiosity, why did you choose BU over W&M?

[TyrodTaylor]

Would any of the schools I am still waiting on that I actually have a chance (BU, BC, WUSTL) at be potentially better options for PI? Not at sticker, of course, but if I received a comparable scholarship? This would certainly complicate things!

although I'm not gunning for Big Law, NLJ 250 numbers are rough proxies of how the rest of the class is doing, and BC does the best of all (about 34%). Like W&M, it is in a small town location, but is close to major city.

BC is better both for PI and Big Law. For PI it's better because its LRAP is the best outside of the T14 or so. For Big Law, well you covered that. You'd most likely be paying sticker though, so maybe this entire idea is a moot point.

The location of BC is not at all "like W&M" though. W&M is wayyyy out in the sticks. You're like 45 minutes to Hampton or whatever, but no one goes to Hampton on purpose. You're an hour or more to Richmond, and there's not a lot to do in Richmond either. It's several hours away from an actual city with, like, culture and stuff (Washington DC).

BC on the other hand is 15 or 20 minutes from the heart of Boston.

WM is actually 50 minutes from richmond, which is the 5th largest city in virginia. It is also between 20 minutes and an hour and fifteen (depending on where you are trying to go) to newport news (6th), norfolk (2nd), Chesapeake (3rd, and virginia beach (1st). Hampton is also in that group of cities (8th). It is a large urbanized area called hampton roads. Not just hampton...Think of it like northern virginia, without a city north of it, and bigger.

[I'm Sorry Dave]

ndirish2010 - quit being so thin skinned. Have a beer or something.

mettasutta - I suggest you look at ND's loan forgiveness program. I don't know how many schools have similar programs but it's pretty darn good. There is also a strong PI focus here, with the CCHR, etc. They also just hired a new faculty member (can't remember the name offhand) who is going to be doing lots of work with the Legal Aid Clinic so they are remaining committed to it.

Here's the link to LRAP: --LinkRemoved--

I can't advise you about other schools, particularly PI since I'm not tremendously interested in that as a career, but I thought I'd give you at least that info.

[Blindmelon]

Blindmelon, out of curiosity, why did you choose BU over W&M?

Honestly, it was a really tough decision. I had instate + 8k from WM and could have gone for much cheaper. I really, really like Boston though and DC isn't really my city (lived there for a few years and didn't like it at all). BU gave me the flexibility of good firm placement while also being solid for PI and feeding decently well in the fed. government. I ended up getting a job at my 1st choice firm so it worked out. BC will offer the same opportunities as BU, issue is that a lot of people at these schools don't have jobs lined up for the summer. So its more of a risk given the greater cost.

While I love Boston, I really liked Williamsburg as well and WM is just a beautiful school. It was a tad conservative for me though, and I liked the idea of the dating scene in a big city rather than being limited to just law students and UGs.

[mettasutta]

Thank you all for the input! I will be depositing at W&M (barring a miracle acceptance from a T14 )

[Attorney]

My #'s are 3.82/164 and I'm toying with retaking

RETAKE.

Srsly. I hate people who say "retake" when it isn't presented as an option, but you did mention it and you are the perfect retake candidate. Don't waste your 3.82, Jesus. I had a GPA more than 1.00 below that, and got into these types of schools with similar or more money. Get a 17X and enjoy something in the CCNMVP range.

Or study like mad, get a 175+, and enjoy Harvard.

[Attorney]

BC on the other hand is 15 or 20 minutes from the heart of Boston.

More like 40 realistically depending on what you mean by the heart of Boston.

Obviously, I mean Cambridge when I say "the heart of Boston". Wait, that doesn't make any sense.

Also to the OP, sorry I commented on this thread before but didn't notice the GPA bling at first blush. To me, that changes everything wrt advice here.

[ENGINEERD]

As much as I hated hearing it during my cycle, you should retake. You have a great gpa and a 167+ LSAT would put you in great shape. Although I do not regret ignoring this advise, I think in your case it is TCR.

If that is not an option for you then it just comes down to where you want to work:

DC- W&M>ND
NY- toss up, but prob ND because of alumni network
BC- ? toss up
Chi (midwest)- ND
West coast- ND

I do not know anything about PI at W&M but ND does offer opportunities to get involved in PI while in school and it seems like a lot students go this route after graduating. If your open to working anywhere, career prospects are probably better coming from ND. ND is also semi-national and will give you more flexibility. It does not place like a T14 (~T15) but there are pockets (LA, NY, Chi, Miami..) across the nation where ND has a strong reputation.

At the end of the day the decision between ND and W&M is not going to make or break your legal career so just make the most informed decision you can and run with it. GL!

[mettasutta]

My #'s are 3.82/164 and I'm toying with retaking

RETAKE.

Srsly. I hate people who say "retake" when it isn't presented as an option, but you did mention it and you are the perfect retake candidate. Don't waste your 3.82, Jesus. I had a GPA more than 1.00 below that, and got into these types of schools with similar or more money. Get a 17X and enjoy something in the CCNMVP range.

Or study like mad, get a 175+, and enjoy Harvard.

Given the "T14 or bust" mentality that prevails these forums, I'm rather surprised that it took so long for someone (other than myself) to suggest "retake". I was pretty depressed by my LSAT performance, and definitely feel that I underperformed. I brushed the dust off of my Powerscore Bibles and have already started prepping for June. Since it will be my fourth time within two years, I will have to ask Vandy or someone else to sponsor me to take it. From searching the forums, it seems like most schools honor the request. I will still deposit at W&M, and if I knock the June LSAT out of the park and get a 17X, I'll defer and reapply for next cycle. With my GPA even a 168 or 169 could get me into a lower T14 like Cornell or Duke. If I score the same or lower, I'll happily matriculate at W&M.

Unfortunately, no matter how well I do in June, Harvard Columbia, and NYU will be most likely out of reach, since they still average.

[Blindmelon]

As much as I hated hearing it during my cycle, you should retake. You have a great gpa and a 167+ LSAT would put you in great shape. Although I do not regret ignoring this advise, I think in your case it is TCR.

If that is not an option for you then it just comes down to where you want to work:

DC- W&M>ND
NY- toss up, but prob ND because of alumni network
BC- ? toss up
Chi (midwest)- ND
West coast- ND

I do not know anything about PI at W&M but ND does offer opportunities to get involved in PI while in school and it seems like a lot students go this route after graduating. If your open to working anywhere, career prospects are probably better coming from ND. ND is also semi-national and will give you more flexibility. It does not place like a T14 (~T15) but there are pockets (LA, NY, Chi, Miami..) across the nation where ND has a strong reputation.

At the end of the day the decision between ND and W&M is not going to make or break your legal career so just make the most informed decision you can and run with it. GL!

Uh... ND over BC for NYC is hilarious. BC pwns ND in the Northeast.

[Blindmelon]

BC on the other hand is 15 or 20 minutes from the heart of Boston.

More like 40 realistically depending on what you mean by the heart of Boston.

Obviously, I mean Cambridge when I say "the heart of Boston". Wait, that doesn't make any sense.

Also to the OP, sorry I commented on this thread before but didn't notice the GPA bling at first blush. To me, that changes everything wrt advice here.

What? To Cambridge from BC is probably around an hour and 10 depending on whether you jump off the T to get the bus or try to go all the way downtown before going back out.

[ndirish2010]

It can be done in 40 minutes from Chestnut Hill campus. BC shuttle to Cleveland Circle, 86 bus to Harvard Square.