W&L full ride v.s GULC sticker v.s GW 106k Forum

[IhateFoxHunting]

In this situation, if you pick GULC I will find you and strangle you.

[MonteCristo89]

OP: Does your GW scholly have a top 50% stip like the one I'm reading about in another thread? Does your W&L scholly have a stip?

I have to have maintain at least a 3.0 for GW and a 3.2 for W&L. Actually, now that you mention it, does anyone happen to know what the average GPAs are for those schools? Or rather, what the curve is? Or actually, is that what you were referring to? 50% for GW get 3.0 or higher and 50% for W&L get 3.25 or higher?

[sundance95]

OP: Does your GW scholly have a top 50% stip like the one I'm reading about in another thread? Does your W&L scholly have a stip?

I have to have maintain at least a 3.0 for GW and a 3.2 for W&L. Actually, now that you mention it, does anyone happen to know what the average GPAs are for those schools? Or rather, what the curve is? Or actually, is that what you were referring to? 50% for GW get 3.0 or higher and 50% for W&L get 3.25 or higher?

I don't know, but that's definitely something to find out mang.

[MonteCristo89]

In this situation, if you pick GULC I will find you and strangle you.

hahahah duly noted. i did e-mail them asking for some cash tho, but who am i kidding, i'm lucky enough to have gotten in

[Always Credited]

top 50% at GWU as a 1L is a 3.25

So maintaining a 3.0 roughly means staying out of the bottom 1/3 of the class

Edit: 3.0 might actually be even lower than bottom 1/3. It likely falls somewhere between bottom 1/3 and bottom 1/4, closer to bottom 1/4.

[bender18]

haha i didn't even catch that, i think i had the general gist of what you were trying to say

hypothetically speaking, if we were to take W&L out of the equation (just because i didn't feel as strong of a connection to it when i visit as i did with gtown/gw), what do you think? thanks for your helpful insightt

I'd take GW (and it is the same offer that I am considering right now).

Reason being that, for me, getting out of debt with 10 years is a huge priority. Heck I'd prefer to be out of debt within 5 years but I understand that is nigh impossible so I'll settle for 10 years or close to it. GW's $120k debt makes this possible even if one gets a low paying small firm job. GULC's $210k debt makes that impossible without biglaw or an LRAP qualifying job and a large portion of GULC grads don't get either of these.

Lol... a large portion of GULC grads that try and get a LRAP qualifying job don't get one? You do realize that GULC's definition of what qualifies under LRAP is broad, right?

[Gumby]

op, a/s/l ?

[bk1]

You do realize that GULC's definition of what qualifies under LRAP is broad, right?

It's about as broad as any other T14.

Lol... a large portion of GULC grads that try and get a LRAP qualifying job don't get one?

See, I don't buy this. With the mountain of debt that exists for grads who paid sticker, are you saying that they just choose to go into small firms because they'd prefer doing that than getting a PI/gov job that will have their debt cleared in 10 years? It might not be a large portion that try and don't get it, but if you're trying to say that a non-insignificant number of GULC grads aren't struggling under a mountain of debt, I'm calling bullshit.

[SrLaw]

You do realize that GULC's definition of what qualifies under LRAP is broad, right?

It's about as broad as any other T14.

Lol... a large portion of GULC grads that try and get a LRAP qualifying job don't get one?

See, I don't buy this. With the mountain of debt that exists for grads who paid sticker, are you saying that they just choose to go into small firms because they'd prefer doing that than getting a PI/gov job that will have their debt cleared in 10 years? It might not be a large portion that try and don't get it, but if you're trying to say that a non-insignificant number of GULC grads aren't struggling under a mountain of debt, I'm calling bullshit.

+1

[Marionberry]

See, I don't buy this. With the mountain of debt that exists for grads who paid sticker, are you saying that they just choose to go into small firms because they'd prefer doing that than getting a PI/gov job that will have their debt cleared in 10 years? It might not be a large portion that try and don't get it, but if you're trying to say that a non-insignificant number of GULC grads aren't struggling under a mountain of debt, I'm calling bullshit.

The thing about this is, and I'm not disagreeing with you, that from what people have told me for PI/gov jobs it is very important that you have demonstrated a commitment to/interest in the field that those jobs are in, which means having gotten involved outside of class, externships, clinics, etc. So yeah, don't expect to go scoop up an easy PI gig, even a less prestigious one, when you strike out at 2L OCI, because that's probably not gonna happen. Counting on PI and LRAP as a fallback option for when you miss out on biglaw is not a very good plan.

[bk1]

The thing about this is, and I'm not disagreeing with you, that from what people have told me for PI/gov jobs it is very important that you have demonstrated a commitment to/interest in the field that those jobs are in, which means having gotten involved outside of class, externships, clinics, etc. So yeah, don't expect to go scoop up an easy PI gig, even a less prestigious one, when you strike out at 2L OCI, because that's probably not gonna happen. Counting on PI and LRAP as a fallback option for when you miss out on biglaw is not a very good plan.

This makes sense (though I would be curious to see how many people strike out who gun for PI/gov).

My general point was that the number of kids at GULC who are struggling under a mountain of debt is significant. Whether that is because the gunned for biglaw and ended up at smaller firms was a side point.

[bender18]

.

[bk1]

I'm trying to say exactly what I wrote. And I don't understand how the fact that Georgetown's LRAP compares to other T14s has any significance here. We're talking about GULC v. GW v. W&L. Georgetown's definition of what it defines as LRAP qualifying IS broad.

And I'm calling bullshit on the fact that people who try and get LRAP qualifying jobs can't get one, ESPECIALLY considering Georgetown's location and everything else. A job can pay you 40k a year and still be LRAP qualifying.

You seemed to imply that GULC's LRAP breadth was special or something.

And I wasn't even jumping on LRAP specifically, all I was trying to say that there is a significant amount of recent GULC grads who are struggling beneath sticker price debt.

[Marionberry]

I'm trying to say exactly what I wrote. And I don't understand how the fact that Georgetown's LRAP compares to other T14s has any significance here. We're talking about GULC v. GW v. W&L. Georgetown's definition of what it defines as LRAP qualifying IS broad.

And I'm calling bullshit on the fact that people who try and get LRAP qualifying jobs can't get one, ESPECIALLY considering Georgetown's location and everything else. A job can pay you 40k a year and still be LRAP qualifying.

You seemed to imply that GULC's LRAP breadth was special or something.

And I wasn't even jumping on LRAP specifically, all I was trying to say that there is a significant amount of recent GULC grads who are struggling beneath sticker price debt.

Again, I agree, but there are significant numbers of people from all of the lower half of the T14 who are struggling with massive debt right now (and surely some from CCN), there's nothing to indicate that it is significantly worse at GULC. Of course this begs he question of what level of disparity is significant, but I don't feel like going in to that. Georgetown almost certainly struggles with firm placement relative to its peers, but taking into account the numbers that it places into gov/PI I don't see the likely difference in placement ability as being that big.

[bk1]

Again, I agree, but there are significant numbers of people from all of the lower half of the T14 who are struggling with massive debt right now (and surely some from CCN), there's nothing to indicate that it is significantly worse at GULC. Of course this begs he question of what level of disparity is significant, but I don't feel like going in to that.

Agreed all around. (Too much agreement here for my liking. )

I guess what set me down on the path of being wary about GULC was the 2010 OCI threads that seemed to give the feeling that it was taking top 1/3 for biglaw out of GULC (and Cornell too I believe). Maybe I am misremembering but it seemed bad.

[Marionberry]

Again, I agree, but there are significant numbers of people from all of the lower half of the T14 who are struggling with massive debt right now (and surely some from CCN), there's nothing to indicate that it is significantly worse at GULC. Of course this begs he question of what level of disparity is significant, but I don't feel like going in to that.

Agreed all around. (Too much agreement here for my liking. )

I guess what set me down on the path of being wary about GULC was the 2010 OCI threads that seemed to give the feeling that it was taking top 1/3 for biglaw out of GULC (and Cornell too I believe). Maybe I am misremembering but it seemed bad.

It did indeed, but in any context the people who have negative experiences are almost always more vocal. This seems particularly pronounced when there are a bajillion GULC students, of course. Looking at the numbers holistically, I don't see any striking shortcomings with the exception of its placement into Art. 3 clerkships, which is kind of shitty.

One thing I have wondered about, especially after visiting last week, is how many of the PT students actually end up in private practice. Most of the night program people I talked to (not just at the ASW event) were working either on the hill or for some kind of NGO, and intended to stay there upon graduation. We don't hear about it a lot on here, but I think most of the part time people are actually working real professional jobs during the day. This is the reason that they have made the part time program smaller and less conducive to transferring to full time, so that it will more effectively serve its purpose of providing a JD for working professionals, and so that they won't have to compete for grades with people not working during the day.

[Flips88]

It did indeed, but in any context the people who have negative experiences are almost always more vocal. This seems particularly pronounced when there are a bajillion GULC students, of course. Looking at the numbers holistically, I don't see any striking shortcomings with the exception of its placement into Art. 3 clerkships, which is kind of shitty.

One thing I have wondered about, especially after visiting last week, is how many of the PT students actually end up in private practice. Most of the night program people I talked to (not just at the ASW event) were working either on the hill or for some kind of NGO, and intended to stay there upon graduation. We don't hear about it a lot on here, but I think most of the part time people are actually working real professional jobs during the day. This is the reason that they have made the part time program smaller and less conducive to transferring to full time, so that it will more effectively serve its purpose of providing a JD for working professionals, and so that they won't have to compete for grades with people not working during the day.

I have a friend whose dad was an Legislative Assistant for a US Senator. Went PT at GULC and was promoted to Legislative Director after he got the JD. I think a significant number of PT students are like that. People already working in DC that are looking to add a degree/earning power.

[Marionberry]

I have a friend whose dad was an Legislative Assistant for a US Senator. Went PT at GULC and was promoted to Legislative Director after he got the JD. I think a significant number of PT students are like that. People already working in DC that are looking to add a degree/earning power.

While I don't know how much of an impact it has on placement stats, this is something that bears consideration when looking at GULC. Some of the criticisms of GULC are certainly not without merit, but the hoardes of people who've been on TLS for 2 months and just regurgitate the same tired shit definitely make it seem worse than it probably is. That said, though, for the purposes of OP, sticker at GULC entails a great deal of risk, and depending on how comfortable you are with that the other two options may well be the best choices.

[bk1]

It did indeed, but in any context the people who have negative experiences are almost always more vocal. This seems particularly pronounced when there are a bajillion GULC students, of course. Looking at the numbers holistically, I don't see any striking shortcomings with the exception of its placement into Art. 3 clerkships, which is kind of shitty.

One thing I have wondered about, especially after visiting last week, is how many of the PT students actually end up in private practice. Most of the night program people I talked to (not just at the ASW event) were working either on the hill or for some kind of NGO, and intended to stay there upon graduation. We don't hear about it a lot on here, but I think most of the part time people are actually working real professional jobs during the day. This is the reason that they have made the part time program smaller and less conducive to transferring to full time, so that it will more effectively serve its purpose of providing a JD for working professionals, and so that they won't have to compete for grades with people not working during the day.

The 2009 data had me wary: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=150681

GULC has the highest percentage of part time.
GULC has the highest percentage of no salary data.
GULC has minimal A3 clerks (as you noted).

There are some positives such as the high amount of PI/gov. Honestly, looking at that I think GULC is probably a better bet than Cornell (which barely places any PI/gov and thus places tons in non-NLJ firms). Another note is that NU's data has similar failings to GULC (though not as bad).

[Marionberry]

On a somewhat related note, while I was in DC I went in search of the District's best crabcake sandwich. It led me to a neighborhood where I feared for my life (the sandwich was served through a rotating window from behind bulletproof glass), and the crabcake itself ended up being a disappointment. I think this is relevant for anyone looking at Gtown.

[bk1]

On a somewhat related note, while I was in DC I went in search of the District's best crabcake sandwich. It led me to a neighborhood where I feared for my life (the sandwich was served through a rotating window from behind bulletproof glass), and the crabcake ended up being kind of a disappointment. This is worth considering if you're looking at Gtown.

Who recommended that crabcake?

[Marionberry]

On a somewhat related note, while I was in DC I went in search of the District's best crabcake sandwich. It led me to a neighborhood where I feared for my life (the sandwich was served through a rotating window from behind bulletproof glass), and the crabcake ended up being kind of a disappointment. This is worth considering if you're looking at Gtown.

Who recommended that crabcake?

Lol, yelp and chowhound. I didn't realize where the place was until I got out of the cab. I get the impression now that one might actually have to go all the way to maryland to get a truly bomb ass crab cake. It's also not crab season, which probably had something to do with it.

I couldn't get a cab, and I didn't want my food to get cold, so I just walked until I saw signs of gentrification (a wine and espresso bar, in this case) and sat down on the sidewalk to eat my sandwich.

[BarbellDreams]

I feel like GULC is out unless you are biglaw or bust. As someone above pointed out, the difference in placement is simply not worth the money. With that said you really have a tough choice. I actually sat here for a little bit before posting because I truly dont know what I would do. DC is such a tough market right now and W&L certainly wont help you network your way in there like GULC or GW would, but having very very manageable debt from W&L is attractive. All things considered I feel like because of the economy I would play it safe and choose W&L, you'll still get solid job prospects without worrying that if you cant crack biglaw/midlaw you'll never pay off your loans. Good luck with your choice, let us know what you decide.

[bender18]

Again, I agree, but there are significant numbers of people from all of the lower half of the T14 who are struggling with massive debt right now (and surely some from CCN), there's nothing to indicate that it is significantly worse at GULC. Of course this begs he question of what level of disparity is significant, but I don't feel like going in to that.

Agreed all around. (Too much agreement here for my liking. )

I guess what set me down on the path of being wary about GULC was the 2010 OCI threads that seemed to give the feeling that it was taking top 1/3 for biglaw out of GULC (and Cornell too I believe). Maybe I am misremembering but it seemed bad.

Haha we agree!

bk, you don't have to answer but I'm just curious if you were offered admission into GULC. I remember you saying you have the 106k offer at GW that you're considering.

[bk1]

Haha we agree!

bk, you don't have to answer but I'm just curious if you were offered admission into GULC. I remember you saying you have the 106k offer at GW that you're considering.

Priority waitlisted. I ED'ed there (I switched to ED after I got the 105k from GW) and maybe it is just me rationalizing but at first I was kind of glad I got waitlisted. I've actually vacillated between whether or not I would attend GULC at sticker (if I get off the waitlist) over GW, but this has to do with the fact that I really really would like to come back to CA and am only just okay with DC (as a splitter, I have not nor will not get into any CA T1 schools). If I actually got GULC at sticker I would have to weigh my irrationality for wanting to live in CA with the rational side of me not wanting so much debt and being debt-free in 10 years even on a worst case scenario.