UC Irvine (1/3 scholarship) v. UT (sticker) for California Forum

[arhmcpo]

I'd say UT. UT is a proven quantity of awesomeness... meanwhile UCI is doing good things, but there's no guarntee that a UCI degree will ever reach the prestige level, the national prestige of a UT degree. I'm from SoCal and I would defintiely do UT over UCI for a socal job, can't speak for norcal. 1L job placement is meaningless. MY friend is a 2L at UCI and has amazing credentials - but from what he tells me - job prospects from 2L OCI were a bloodbath and sound more comparable to Loyola/Pepperdine for SoCal; not UCLA or USC; not UT. For many people UCI would make a lot of sense and be a fantastic option...if they had not gotten into UT.

GULC at sticker for CA is hardly ideal. It's probably pretty comparable to UT.

I used "lower T14" as a catchall and notice that I actually excluded GULC from the short list. I'd say GULC has an edge over UT for CA but not a very appreciable one.

Its impossible to know for sure, but I would give the edge to UT - there are tons of Texas transplants in So Cal and vice versa; I just think its less of a stretch to come to CA with a UT degree over an east coast power like GULC.

[Redsgomarchingon]

UC Irvine has no reputation and no alumni base. There's already six Tier 1 California schools, and UC Irvine as an undergraduate institution is not ranked high, so there's no reason to believe their law school would even qualify as a Tier 1 anytime soon.

If these are your only choices, go to UT. Not to demean UC Irvine, but this is a very easy decision.

Chemerinsky

ok, so he might hook up the top 5% and the girl who goes down on him. Still not tier 1.

EDIT: haha wow, I can't believe this poll is 50/50 right now

[Boggs]

UC Irvine has no reputation and no alumni base. There's already six Tier 1 California schools, and UC Irvine as an undergraduate institution is not ranked high, so there's no reason to believe their law school would even qualify as a Tier 1 anytime soon.

If these are your only choices, go to UT. Not to demean UC Irvine, but this is a very easy decision.

Chemerinsky

ok, so he might hook up the top 5% and the girl who goes down on him. Still not tier 1.

EDIT: haha wow, I can't believe this poll is 50/50 right now

I'm not going to pretend to know the future, but it's not as if I can't think up a reason UCI might end up in tier 1.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

I still think UCI is far better than UT for SoCal. And my point about the jobs kids are taking 1L summer stands. UCI kids are having the same opportunities as students from UCLA and USC in the 1L job scene. I don't see (m)any kids from the Loyolas or the Southwesterns or Chapmans of SoCal with these kinds of jobs going to just about everyone in their class.

It is great to have a large alumni base. It is also great to have a school with a famous dean and hustling career services getting on the phone and making things happen for its students.

I have no dog in this fight. I turned down UCLA and I go to a T10. But there are 1Ls at my T10 who would probably take some of those jobs on that list over what they are doing this summer. (My job this summer is on that list, and I'm pretty happy about it).

1st off, I looked over the 1L firm jobs and did a quick google search and only one popped up as a nlj 250 firm. Maybe some others are boutique firms that pay market but if not-- 1 person in their entire class got a 1L biglaw summer job.... I think that's a better measurement of both prestige and later career chances of the class. While I know it's not completely fair to compare this 1L's summer jobs with last years since 1L firm hiring is picking up at least in TX, but I know of 5 UT 1L students with biglaw firm jobs this summer.....and that's just out of my small section (~25 people).

2nd point- I'm still interested in an explanation of how jobs with PI firms and internships with judges=good job opportunities after law school.

I really don't have an opinion between UCI and UT for SoCal since I don't know how either does there. I just think it's a weird argument to rely on 1L summer jobs to show how well UCI will be able to do for its graduates, especially when nearly everyone of those summer jobs are not biglaw firm jobs. At least with 1L biglaw jobs there's a connection to a strong potential for a job down the line (1L summer-->get invited back for 2L summer-->get an offer).

[thegreatk]

UC Irvine has no reputation and no alumni base. There's already six Tier 1 California schools, and UC Irvine as an undergraduate institution is not ranked high, so there's no reason to believe their law school would even qualify as a Tier 1 anytime soon.

If these are your only choices, go to UT. Not to demean UC Irvine, but this is a very easy decision.

Why I think you are wrong:

The undergraduate school is top 50 on USNWR. (41, to be exact).
The law school has #9 faculty, top 20 student numbers (the medians are looking to be similar to UCLA and USC), and is likely to score far higher on peer review than many other law schools with parallel numbers. UCI is also giving job support to all students, not just the top 30 or 40%, which should give them a boost in job numbers.

Don't spew BS when somebody is trying to make an important decision. Damn near every poster on TLS will admit that Irvine comes with risk, but it would be ridiculous to think they won't start off as a T-1 institution.

[bk1]

A few things:

1. Whether or not UCI becomes tier 1 is irrelevant.

2. 1L jobs don't mean shit. Heck arhmcpo has anecdotal evidence that the 2L job search has been awful.

3. Adding on to number 2, and something I've said before, I do actually think UCI students will be fairly well employed. However, the odds that those prospects justify $135k compared to paying sticker at UT or paying less at UCD/UCH seems unlikely to me.

4. GULC vs UT for CA... I can see this going either way and it is hard to quantify for sure. I think it's GULC, others see it as UT. GULC has a west coast job fair and has pretty broad reach which lends me to thinking GULC. Either way, I don't think either has an appreciable edge in CA and if you want CA then these schools are probably about equal.

5. OP should retake/reapply and definitely apply to UCD/UCH (in addition to the top CA schools and the lower T14) if OP wants CA.

[Redsgomarchingon]

UC Irvine has no reputation and no alumni base. There's already six Tier 1 California schools, and UC Irvine as an undergraduate institution is not ranked high, so there's no reason to believe their law school would even qualify as a Tier 1 anytime soon.

If these are your only choices, go to UT. Not to demean UC Irvine, but this is a very easy decision.

Why I think you are wrong:

The undergraduate school is top 50 on USNWR. (41, to be exact).
The law school has #9 faculty, top 20 student numbers (the medians are looking to be similar to UCLA and USC), and is likely to score far higher on peer review than many other law schools with parallel numbers. UCI is also giving job support to all students, not just the top 30 or 40%, which should give them a boost in job numbers.

Don't spew BS when somebody is trying to make an important decision. Damn near every poster on TLS will admit that Irvine comes with risk, but it would be ridiculous to think they won't start off as a T-1 institution.

they got those medians because they gave everyone in the class a full tuition scholarship. Now it's down to one-third. Lets see if those numbers hold when people are accepted to guaranteed top 20s, or have over 1/3 scholarships to a T30.

also, I could not find this #9 faculty ranking. (I found this, but the study mentioned is not named or cited there either: http://abovethelaw.com/2009/04/uc-irvin ... ve-status/) Please cite.

Is likely to score far higher on peer review? Please elaborate. And every school gives job support to all their students. Granted, UC Irvine might have an easier job of it since they only have 60 students. (or 120, maybe I'm looking at old data)

EDIT: After doing some research, I take back saying that UC Irvine would not be a tier 1: it looks like there's a decent chance. But UT would still obviously be a better choice (versus a 1/3 scholarship), even for SoCal

[thexfactor]

i would put getting a good job above location.
Go to UT. It gives you a much better chance of getting a good job vs UCI. You also have a decent shot at getting back to cali.

[thegreatk]

UC Irvine has no reputation and no alumni base. There's already six Tier 1 California schools, and UC Irvine as an undergraduate institution is not ranked high, so there's no reason to believe their law school would even qualify as a Tier 1 anytime soon.

If these are your only choices, go to UT. Not to demean UC Irvine, but this is a very easy decision.

Why I think you are wrong:

The undergraduate school is top 50 on USNWR. (41, to be exact).
The law school has #9 faculty, top 20 student numbers (the medians are looking to be similar to UCLA and USC), and is likely to score far higher on peer review than many other law schools with parallel numbers. UCI is also giving job support to all students, not just the top 30 or 40%, which should give them a boost in job numbers.

Don't spew BS when somebody is trying to make an important decision. Damn near every poster on TLS will admit that Irvine comes with risk, but it would be ridiculous to think they won't start off as a T-1 institution.

they got those medians because they gave everyone in the class a full tuition scholarship. Now it's down to one-third. Lets see if those numbers hold when people are accepted to guaranteed top 20s, or have over 1/3 scholarships to a T30.

also, I could not find this #9 faculty ranking. (I found this, but the study mentioned is not named or cited there either: http://abovethelaw.com/2009/04/uc-irvin ... ve-status/) Please cite.

Is likely to score far higher on peer review? Please elaborate. And every school gives job support to all their students. Granted, UC Irvine might have an easier job of it since they only have 60 students. (or 120, maybe I'm looking at old data)

EDIT: After doing some research, I take back saying that UC Irvine would not be a tier 1: it looks like there's a decent chance. But UT would still obviously be a better choice (versus a 1/3 scholarship), even for SoCal

1. Agreed, there may be some drop, however I'm pretty sure the numbers I saw were from last year, with the 1/2 scholarship. Not that much of a difference between 1/2 and 1/3.

2. http://www.leiterrankings.com/new/2010_ ... pact.shtml

3. I guess this is more of a prediction/guess, but I think the tiny student/faculty ratio, the tight-knit community, the self selecting sample (those who attend Irvine will care less about rankings and more about their experience, which means less stress, which means happier students), and lack of class ranking will all lead to UCI students giving their institution very high peer review ratings, which is (I believe) a key part of the USNWR rankings. And, not that this matters, but this year's class is looking to be about 100 students (or so UCI predicts).

3a. From research I've done, many top tier schools do not give job support to the lower ranked students. But, I'm a 0L, so that's knowledge absorbed mostly from this board.