UT (93k) vs NYU vs Berkeley Forum

[clone22]

You have to remember boalt doesn't have letter grades. That's a ++ in my book (and if you look at vault placement statistics, which I agree aren't really a complete picture, boalt is toe to toe with nyu in placement for biglaw).

[bilbobaggins]

[quote="r6_philly"]
There is nothing but conjecture. If you want to post a general budget PDF of Boalt I will gladly read it. If you want to point me to an official document saying tuition will not increase or will be capped please do so then I can stop not knowing what I am talking about.

I have no interest in arguing with you because you are full of hot air and short on any sort of manners. You act like a kid with a tantrum.

You are really doing Boalt a disservice. So I don't know what your intention is but it is really not helping the school.[/quote

What is especially amazing about this is that you actually referred someone to this same discussion in another thread. In that discussion, I laid out my source: I've sat through several budget meetings that talked through the school's budget and where our funding comes from. I've seen that Boalt gets around $4M in state funding a year and has an operating budget more than 10 times that.

I'm sorry that the school didn't disseminate a PDF of this budget, but I've seen the slides and heard Edley talk about it. This is solid reasoning for the position that I've presented.

As you just said, you have nothing but conjecture about the subject. If that's the cast, shut up about it. Let someone who knows what they're talking about address the topic. It's unhelpful (and endemic on TLS) to continue repeating the same half-baked rumors.

[r6_philly]

What is especially amazing about this is that you actually referred someone to this same discussion in another thread. In that discussion, I laid out my source: I've sat through several budget meetings that talked through the school's budget and where our funding comes from. I've seen that Boalt gets around $4M in state funding a year and has an operating budget more than 10 times that.

I'm sorry that the school didn't disseminate a PDF of this budget, but I've seen the slides and heard Edley talk about it. This is solid reasoning for the position that I've presented.

As you just said, you have nothing but conjecture about the subject. If that's the cast, shut up about it. Let someone who knows what they're talking about address the topic. It's unhelpful (and endemic on TLS) to continue repeating the same half-baked rumors.

You do understand someone on the Internet with a Dean Tom photo as a tar doesn't count as a credible source right (no matter what that person claims). I'd think you would know that being a graduate student and all. Especially since I have seen your postings over time. Especially when your attitude is so poor.

ETA it's so awesome to know that you think you are helping anyone...

[cornellbeez]

NYU. It's harder getting NY/DC biglaw from Boalt than NYU because many NY/DC firms don't even recruit at Boalt while most NY ones, at least, recruit at NYU. And, from personal experience, mass mailing biglaw firms does not work unless you have a very unique background, like military work, have paralegal connections, IP/URM, or are top 10%. I had none of the previous characteristics and received NO NY/DC biglaw callbacks via mass mailing, but had a fair number through on-campus interviews. It's much easier getting callbacks when a biglaw firm flies to your school for recruiting purposes.

[bilbobaggins]

The NYU entering class has nearly twice as many students as Boalt.

Fewer Boalt students are interested in going to NYC than NYU students.

Either school will give you a great shot at NYC Biglaw. Neither can be demonstrated to give a major edge over the other the two students being equal. Choose the school you like better and go. They're both great schools.

[dresden doll]

You have to remember boalt doesn't have letter grades. That's a ++ in my book (and if you look at vault placement statistics, which I agree aren't really a complete picture, boalt is toe to toe with nyu in placement for biglaw).

Not sure why mimicking the regular curve with Ps and Hs to stand in for As and Bs counts as ++.

[clintonius]

The NYU entering class has nearly twice as many students as Boalt.

Fewer Boalt students are interested in going to NYC than NYU students.

Either school will give you a great shot at NYC Biglaw. Neither can be demonstrated to give a major edge over the other the two students being equal. Choose the school you like better and go. They're both great schools.

While there are a zillion factors that we can't control for, I'm not comfortable with the assertion that you have an equal chance at NYC biglaw from either school. Just because there are fewer Boalties headed to NYC doesn't mean that you automatically have a better shot at the market because of reduced competition. If your grades are blah, I'm pretty sure you're going to have a harder time getting NYC from Boalt than from NYU.

[cornellbeez]

The NYU entering class has nearly twice as many students as Boalt.

Fewer Boalt students are interested in going to NYC than NYU students.

Either school will give you a great shot at NYC Biglaw. Neither can be demonstrated to give a major edge over the other the two students being equal. Choose the school you like better and go. They're both great schools.

While there are a zillion factors that we can't control for, I'm not comfortable with the assertion that you have an equal chance at NYC biglaw from either school. Just because there are fewer Boalties headed to NYC doesn't mean that you automatically have a better shot at the market because of reduced competition. If your grades are blah, I'm pretty sure you're going to have a harder time getting NYC from Boalt than from NYU.

The chances aren't equal. Different firms have different hiring practices, but a lot of NY firms dig deeper into Columbia and NYU than other T-14s. Whether you get hired or not can depend on where the hiring attorney went to school and also where your interviewing partner went to school. Boalt doesn't have many grads in NY, which may make it harder to get an offer than from other T-14s.

[bilbobaggins]

The NYU entering class has nearly twice as many students as Boalt.

Fewer Boalt students are interested in going to NYC than NYU students.

Either school will give you a great shot at NYC Biglaw. Neither can be demonstrated to give a major edge over the other the two students being equal. Choose the school you like better and go. They're both great schools.

While there are a zillion factors that we can't control for, I'm not comfortable with the assertion that you have an equal chance at NYC biglaw from either school. Just because there are fewer Boalties headed to NYC doesn't mean that you automatically have a better shot at the market because of reduced competition. If your grades are blah, I'm pretty sure you're going to have a harder time getting NYC from Boalt than from NYU.

The chances aren't equal. Different firms have different hiring practices, but a lot of NY firms dig deeper into Columbia and NYU than other T-14s. Whether you get hired or not can depend on where the hiring attorney went to school and also where your interviewing partner went to school. Boalt doesn't have many grads in NY, which may make it harder to get an offer than from other T-14s.

Boalt has plenty of grads in NY. Please substantiate the rest with data.

[clintonius]

Not that you provided any data to support your own assertion, but here are the current attorneys in the New York office of each firm in the V15 that has one:

Wachtell
NYU: 31
Boalt: 0

Cravath
NYU: 45
Boalt: 3

S&C
NYU: 56
Boalt: 3

Skadden
NYU: 81
Boalt: 5

DPW
NYU: 85
Boalt: 6

STB
NYU: 75
Boalt: 8

Weil (n/a -- can't search by school)

Cleary
NYU: 99
Boalt: 8

Covington
NYU: 18
Boalt: 0

K&E
NYU: 37
Boalt: 2

Paul Weiss
NYU: 87
Boalt: 11

Debevoise
NYU: 72 (including the illustrious William H. Taft V )
Boalt: 10

Gibson Dunn
NYU: 36
Boalt: 0

Latham
NYU: 53
Boalt: 1 (the search shows up two, but only because it doesn't differentiate between Boalt and Berkeley UG. One of the results actually got his JD at Fordham)

Boalt is certainly a fine school, but this tips the scales pretty clearly in favor of NYU if NYC biglaw is your goal. That said, I still recommend visiting both places, because being happy where you're at will also be important. NYU and Boalt are both in excellent locations, but they're very different and you might prefer one over the other.

[bilbobaggins]

Not that you provided any data to support your own assertion, but here are the current attorneys in the New York office of each firm in the V15 that has one:

Wachtell
NYU: 31
Boalt: 0

Cravath
NYU: 45
Boalt: 3

S&C
NYU: 56
Boalt: 3

Skadden
NYU: 81
Boalt: 5

DPW
NYU: 85
Boalt: 6

STB
NYU: 75
Boalt: 8

Weil (n/a -- can't search by school)

Cleary
NYU: 99
Boalt: 8

Covington
NYU: 18
Boalt: 0

K&E
NYU: 37
Boalt: 2

Paul Weiss
NYU: 87
Boalt: 11

Debevoise
NYU: 72 (including the illustrious William H. Taft V )
Boalt: 10

Gibson Dunn
NYU: 36
Boalt: 0

Latham
NYU: 53
Boalt: 1 (the search shows up two, but only because it doesn't differentiate between Boalt and Berkeley UG. One of the results actually got his JD at Fordham)

Boalt is certainly a fine school, but this tips the scales pretty clearly in favor of NYU if NYC biglaw is your goal. That said, I still recommend visiting both places, because being happy where you're at will also be important. NYU and Boalt are both in excellent locations, but they're very different and you might prefer one over the other.

It's actually unclear from this data whether it's more difficult for Boalt student/grads to go to NYC or if fewer opt to. You understand the difference, right?

[twistedwrister]

It's actually unclear from this data whether it's more difficult for Boalt student/grads to go to NYC or if fewer opt to. You understand the difference, right?

You're right. I'm sure a lot of Boalt grads self-select into unemployment or sh*tlaw rather than head to a V15 gig in NYC. In all seriousness, I'm sure self-selection plays some role, probably a big role, in those numbers, but you're high if you think it's as easy to get an NYC job from Boalt as from NYU. The disparity in numbers is massive. A significant number of big NYC firms/offices don't even recruit from Boalt. Look, if someone wants to practice in CA, I'd tell them to take Boalt over NYU. Suggesting that someone who wants to work in NYC should consider Boalt on par with NYU is irresponsible.

[clintonius]

It's actually unclear from this data whether it's more difficult for Boalt student/grads to go to NYC or if fewer opt to. You understand the difference, right?

You're right. I'm sure a lot of Boalt grads self-select into unemployment or sh*tlaw rather than head to a V15 gig in NYC. In all seriousness, I'm sure self-selection plays some role, probably a big role, in those numbers, but you're high if you think it's as easy to get an NYC job from Boalt as from NYU. The disparity in numbers is massive. A significant number of big NYC firms/offices don't even recruit from Boalt. Look, if someone wants to practice in CA, I'd tell them to take Boalt over NYU. Suggesting that someone who wants to work in NYC should consider Boalt on par with NYU is irresponsible.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Though Bilbo's data was also compelling.

btw, this:

You understand the difference, right?

is an example of why you tend to come across as more attitudinal than helpful.

[cornellbeez]

It's actually unclear from this data whether it's more difficult for Boalt student/grads to go to NYC or if fewer opt to. You understand the difference, right?

You're right. I'm sure a lot of Boalt grads self-select into unemployment or sh*tlaw rather than head to a V15 gig in NYC. In all seriousness, I'm sure self-selection plays some role, probably a big role, in those numbers, but you're high if you think it's as easy to get an NYC job from Boalt as from NYU. The disparity in numbers is massive. A significant number of big NYC firms/offices don't even recruit from Boalt. Look, if someone wants to practice in CA, I'd tell them to take Boalt over NYU. Suggesting that someone who wants to work in NYC should consider Boalt on par with NYU is irresponsible.

Yes to the bolded. Based on data I have seen pertaining to which NY firms have recently recruited at the t14 schools (the past 2 years info), I'd advise someone who just wanted NYC biglaw, assuming similar costs, to go to HYSCCNMVPDNC over Boalt. As I mentioned earlier, it's much easier getting a biglaw job when a firm actually interviews at your school.