Cornell or Georgetown? Forum

[dpk711]

tagged

[bdubs]

USC doesn't look all that splitter unfriendly to me. I think OP is above their LSAT threshold.

http://usc.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/

I agree with the UCLA assesment though, it's pretty unlikely.

Admitting only 4 people below a 3.4 (3 of which were URM's) doesn't seem like splitter unfriendly to you?

I had OPs #s in mind, there are significantly fewer data points but he stands a chance. 3.4 is pretty far below most of the 25% of the T20 (with a few exceptions).

[bk1]

I had OPs #s in mind, there are significantly fewer data points but he stands a chance. 3.4 is pretty far below most of the 25% of the T20 (with a few exceptions).

This is irrelevant, it doesn't matter that it is far below the 25th, it matters what school is being referred to. Some schools dip far below their 25th percentile GPA (GW/WUSTL/UVa/UMich/etc) and some schools do not (UT/UCLA/USC/Boalt/etc).

I'd say the USC app is worth it but it is highly unlikely and the best bets for a splitter (3.0ish/170+) who has CA ties and wants to work in CA is usually one of the T14 and not USC/UCLA considering they rarely get into those last two (as well as the other 2 top CA schools).

[Juff]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

I would like to attend a T14 just to keep my options open in the future. Re: UCLA... what bk187 said. Haven't heard back from UCLA or USC, and I applied months ago. With my splitter stats, Stanford and Berkeley are also out of the question.

The two things I'm most worried about right now are job placement and student QOL. D.C.'s city vibe is great, but I'm guessing OCI gets pretty cutthroat with so many students. Good to hear that Ithaca isn't that terrible a location--though it's 72* where I am today, so uh, -17* is slightly intimidating.

I've found that the weather situation here is completely overblown. You bundle up, you walk to class, you bundle up again, you leave. Im from NYC, and there is nothing here that I am not already used to (the -17* here was nearly matched in the entire Tri-State area). I personally found that the benefits of Cornell (smaller class size, closer ties to NYC area) were much greater than the minor inconveniences, like cold weather and a tame nightlife.

[Ostrizr316]

I personally found that the benefits of Cornell (smaller class size, closer ties to NYC area) were much greater than the minor inconveniences, like cold weather and a tame nightlife.

For the Record, Juff's "tame nightlife" comment does not mean no chance for a social life. I've never spend a night here where I couldn't find something to do and have to turn down a ton of great social opportunities in order to keep up with the workload. There are a lot of things to do, either in town or sponsored by the school. For example, the law-school sponsors numerous bar tabs throughout the year, there are events for grad students like a Halloween bar crawl, a inter-grad-school beer pong tournament, booze cruises, and every Friday there are grad student only $1 beer specials at the "big red barn" on campus. There are intramural sports leagues, ski trips, and tons of legal clubs. There are literally 8 bars within 3 blocks of the law school, plus plenty of other places in Ithaca commons. Finally, being far away from a major city in a small town with a small law school class, you end up making a lot of friends, and there is always a crowd that is willing to go out or do something.

[Juff]

I personally found that the benefits of Cornell (smaller class size, closer ties to NYC area) were much greater than the minor inconveniences, like cold weather and a tame nightlife.

For the Record, Juff's "tame nightlife" comment does not mean no chance for a social life.

...I thought this went without saying. Tame does not mean absent. It does, however, mean tame. We are talking about Ithaca here, and while there are obviously bars and other events scattered throughout the semester, it is by no means a hot spot. I thought this was obvious.

[koalatriste]

cornell v. georgetown was one of the decisions that i had to make last cycle. since i'm a believer in brevity, these are my thoughts:

location: wash (GULC is in a terribly boring area of DC and the campus is ugly). you probably will have to ride the metro to class at GULC. and the metro sucks. in fact, riding the metro was one of the primary reasons i wanted to leave DC.

city: GULC by a longshot (though I was just coming off of 4 years in DC, so I *thought* I was ready to leave). however, i HIGHLY recommend living in DC (NOVA/MD do not count).

campus: Cornell, slightly

prestige: wash

biglaw placement: Cornell (by a LOT more than people on these boards know/realize, probably debatable, but whatever)

weather: GULC by a longshot

library study environment: Cornell by a longshot

people: wash (both schools have their fair share of tools, but don't all top schools?)

i chose Cornell, but i got $ from Cornell and nothing from GULC. that said, i probably would have chosen Cornell at sticker over GULC sticker.

bottom line: no one on TLS or any place else on the internet is going to solve this issue for you. visit both schools. decide what's right for you. think for yourself. best of luck.

[Marionberry]

biglaw placement: Cornell (by a LOT more than people on these boards know/realize, probably debatable, but whatever)

What are you basing that on?

[koalatriste]

biglaw placement: Cornell (by a LOT more than people on these boards know/realize, probably debatable, but whatever)

What are you basing that on?

this year's OCI at Cornell. it also just makes sense. GULC is huge and in DC (toughest legal market in the country). Cornell is tiny and the primary market is a semi-recovering NYC.

[Arbiter213]

biglaw placement: Cornell (by a LOT more than people on these boards know/realize, probably debatable, but whatever)

What are you basing that on?

this year's OCI at Cornell. it also just makes sense. GULC is huge and in DC (toughest legal market in the country). Cornell is tiny and the primary market is a semi-recovering NYC.

I'll say: I was surpried when a friend of mine's father, a GULC alumn, responded when he heard I was deciding between the two with surprise; he assumed Cornell was the obvious choice.

Also tag.

[koalatriste]

biglaw placement: Cornell (by a LOT more than people on these boards know/realize, probably debatable, but whatever)

What are you basing that on?

See, e.g., NLJ250 Rankings; A big giant neon sign blinking and saying "I told you so."

sorry for the thread necromancy, but I just couldn't resist

[Marionberry]

Class of 2010's placement from Cornell was atypical. Cornell has not historically had placement numbers that are significantly higher than GULC, I don't think. I'm skeptical that it's indicative of any bigger trend, as swings like that are not uncommon when you have such a small class size.

[Arbiter213]

Class of 2010's placement from Cornell was atypical. Cornell has not historically had placement numbers that are significantly higher than GULC, I don't think. I'm skeptical that it's indicative of any bigger trend, as swings like that are not uncommon when you have such a small class size.

It almost certainly has to do with the primary feeder markets. The remarkable thing is that they went UP dramatically.

[Marionberry]

Class of 2010's placement from Cornell was atypical. Cornell has not historically had placement numbers that are significantly higher than GULC, I don't think. I'm skeptical that it's indicative of any bigger trend, as swings like that are not uncommon when you have such a small class size.

It almost certainly has to do with the primary feeder markets. The remarkable thing is that they went UP dramatically.

This, but there's also any number of things that could result in 20 more graduates gettting biglaw than the previous year. That's really just not a lot of people.

[koalatriste]

Class of 2010's placement from Cornell was atypical. Cornell has not historically had placement numbers that are significantly higher than GULC, I don't think. I'm skeptical that it's indicative of any bigger trend, as swings like that are not uncommon when you have such a small class size.

It almost certainly has to do with the primary feeder markets. The remarkable thing is that they went UP dramatically.

This, but there's also any number of things that could result in 20 more graduates gettting biglaw than the previous year. That's really just not a lot of people.

--ImageRemoved--

[bender18]

tagging this

[violinst]

Small class sizes--if you are referring to individual sections--are important to some, but not to others. Probably depends on your learning style. Cornell, however, has fairly large section sizes of about 100 to 103 students while Georgetown is even larger at about 118 students per section. Graduating class size may be relevant in your situation because few West Coast firms are likely to make the trip to Ithaca to recruit from a small East Coast centric graduating class.
Cornell's Ivy League membership shouldn't be a consideration since Georgetown has Ivy prestige.
As for a career in academia, Cornell's per capita is 0.42 (83 alums teaching law) for graduates teaching law whereas Georgetown's is lower at 0.27 with 154 alums teaching law.

Per Capita Graduates teaching law as of Spring, 2008:

Yale 3.56

Harvard 1.99
Chicago 1.44
Stanford 1.24

Columbia 0.82
Michigan 0.82
Berkeley 0.73

Penn 0.60
NYU 0.54

Duke 0.46
Northwestern 0.44
Cornell 0.42
Virginia 0.41

Illinois 0.30
Wisconsin 0.30
UCLA 0.29
Georgetown 0.27
Texas 0.25
Minnesota 0.23
Boston Univ. 0.22

We have 6 sections for the class of 2013 at Cornell. My section has 34 students.

[violinst]

As for OP, just visit both schools. They are completely different.

[KMaine]

Class of 2010's placement from Cornell was atypical. Cornell has not historically had placement numbers that are significantly higher than GULC, I don't think. I'm skeptical that it's indicative of any bigger trend, as swings like that are not uncommon when you have such a small class size.

On a very quick search I found the NLJ data from 2008 and 2007. Both years Cornell was at 62%. One year Georgetown was at 48% the other year 49%. You are right. It is not a trend. It was going on even before the crash.

[Mike12188]

From looking at Koala's post history, I'm almost positive he is Andy Bernard. Don't argue with him, he took intro to philosophy twice.

[Marionberry]

Well, maybe I was wrong. It would appear that Cornell's NLJ250 numbers are typically better, so if OP is biglaw or bust and doesn't mind NYC, cornell is probably the right choice.

[koalatriste]

From looking at Koala's post history, I'm almost positive he is Andy Bernard. Don't argue with him, he took intro to philosophy twice.

that's koalatriste to you, Michael Scott. this isn't just an ordinary koala here.

[koalatriste]

Well, maybe I was wrong. It would appear that Cornell's NLJ250 numbers are typically better, so if OP is biglaw or bust and doesn't mind NYC, Cornell is probably the right choice.

fixed.

[Marionberry]

From looking at Koala's post history, I'm almost positive he is Andy Bernard. Don't argue with him, he took intro to philosophy twice.

that's koalatriste to you, Michael Scott. this isn't just any koala here.

sorry to burst your bubble, Mayor Barry. B**** set you up, for sure.

No bubbles burst here. Anyway, OP wanted either the west coast (for which either school is probably gonna do about the same) or academia(which he's not gonna get from either school.

[bk1]

Why would do people treat 1 year as if it has significant meaning when it could easily be attributed to randomness?