William and Mary vs. URichmond, hear me out Forum

[Aqualibrium]

I am from Virginia and I can pretty much say that UR and W&M are both good choices if you want to practice in Richmond, but the connections you will make and the fact that you are IN richmond at UR, can easily do externships and attend local bar events, and will likely have some local attorneys as your instructors, will give you an advantage. In the end, they are both good schools and you will get a J.D. so finding a job is your own responsibility.

This is sorta BS reasoning. Yes, UR is in Richmond; however, W&M is only 40 minutes away. W&M is a far better school, has a cheaper sticker price, and provides far better exit options both in Virginia and the Mid-Atlantic.

+1 Also, what are we calling intimate knowledge here? Is "growing up" in Virginia sufficient? Is talking to lawyers alone sufficient? Is getting a legal job in Richmond some sort of trump card?

I suspect if you fleshed it out, the posters who seem to think that UR ite can compete with W&M are in the first two categories, but nowhere near the third.

Also, as far as extenrships go, lots of people drive 1-2 hours to get to their extern placement at my school. I don't see any reason why a W&M kid couldn't do the same.

[dshirs32]

I completely see the arguments on both sides, but as a current student at UR Law, I think that I am qualified to comment. Bottom line: WM is the superior law school, but for one who specifically seeks placement in Richmond and who will likely receive substantial financial compensation, I think that UR Law is the superior choice. UR Law simply has a superior network within the Richmond legal market than WM. People often think otherwise given WM's undeniable prestige. However, UR enjoys a massive alumni network that actively pursues UR students, UR has a campus in downtown Richmond that exposes students to actual legal work in Richmond, UR Law hosts myriad networking opportunities and cocktail parties that are attended by numerous attorneys who practice at the best firms in Richmond, etc. Ultimately, UR Law provides its students with wonderful opportunities within the city of Richmond, and beyond of course. Moreover, I am also a WM alumnus, and I must say that time spent in Williamsburg is far less exciting than that spent in Richmond. To the OP, either choice would be great for someone who desires to work in Richmond, best of luck making your decision!

[TyrodTaylor]

This thread really picked up steam ha. I appreciate all of your responses. I am also concerned about the benefit of waiting until next cycle. Does anyone think that Id have a better chance at $ from WM if I applied early ina cycle. Im still not complete yet on my apps. Even with a full ride to UR, it would still cost around 40k in debt due to cost of living, I would expect william and mary to be around 90k. So i need to figur eout if the added prestige and reach is worth it.

[vamedic03]

This thread really picked up steam ha. I appreciate all of your responses. I am also concerned about the benefit of waiting until next cycle. Does anyone think that Id have a better chance at $ from WM if I applied early ina cycle. Im still not complete yet on my apps. Even with a full ride to UR, it would still cost around 40k in debt due to cost of living, I would expect william and mary to be around 90k. So i need to figur eout if the added prestige and reach is worth it.

Unless you're 100% dead set on living in Richmond the rest of your life, W&M provides far more job opportunities both within the Commonwealth and the Mid-Atlantic. Plus, firms will go deeper into W&M's class than they will at Richmond.

[Borhas]

OP won't get into W&M

[TyrodTaylor]

I think my 167 and the fact I have lived next to the campus for the past 20 years will give me a decent shot. Thanks for the constructive advice though

[mez06]

This thread really picked up steam ha. I appreciate all of your responses. I am also concerned about the benefit of waiting until next cycle. Does anyone think that Id have a better chance at $ from WM if I applied early ina cycle. Im still not complete yet on my apps. Even with a full ride to UR, it would still cost around 40k in debt due to cost of living, I would expect william and mary to be around 90k. So i need to figur eout if the added prestige and reach is worth it.

??? OP, honestly, you need to go ahead and friggin apply. Then maybe once you get the results, the contents of this thread will deem itself useful. Either school would be a good choice for your locale preferences. But..WM trumps UR hands down.

You grew up in VA...and so did I. There's not really much of a question to this. Stop trying to pysch yourself out on the various nuances and be objective about it. WM is a better choice. If you don't get into WM, UR is also a good choice. End of story.

[sundance95]

Unless you're 100% dead set on living in Richmond the rest of your life, W&M provides far more job opportunities both within the Commonwealth and the Mid-Atlantic. Plus, firms will go deeper into W&M's class than they will at Richmond.

This. The fact that there are lots of UR grads in Richmond speaks only to self selection-Richmond grads only have opportunities in Richmond, so they are concentrated there. Firms will definitely hire deeper into W&M.

[TyrodTaylor]

Waiting on my second LOR, which I will be overnighting to lsac as soon as I can get a hold of it

[pj2008]

As a W&M Law student and someone who has worked in Richmond, UR is an excellent choice if you are interested in government work in Richmond. Also, there were a lot of UR Law grads working at some of the 50-100 lawyer firms in Richmond. However, if you are interested in working for some of the larger firms in Richmond, W&M is the better choice overall. I attended an event sponsored by some of the bigger law firms in Richmond, and most of the summer associates were from UVA, W&M, and Washington and Lee; very few, meaning like 1 or 2 were from UR. Not to say you won't be able to work at those firms from UR, but W&M is definitely the better choice. But money talks so if you decide to go with UR, just know what you are up against.

[tarp]

One comment to the OP: the fact that you have lived right next to the W&M campus for the past twenty years is really meaningless when it comes to the law school admissions process.

[Borhas]

I think my 167 and the fact I have lived next to the campus for the past 20 years will give me a decent shot. Thanks for the constructive advice though

worth a shot, but don't count it, your odds are slim w/ your gpa

http://wm.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/

Washington & Lee is much more realistic choice (and your LSAT would get you $-$$)

[crysmissmichelle]

At least apply to W&M and see what happens. UR does have a great reputation in Richmond though so if debt is your big deciding point, Richmond is going to be a good option.

[TyrodTaylor]

I am also applying to W&L, just submitted my WM app , wont be complete until tuesday though. How much better arre my chances at all 3 schools, including the amount of money I get, by waiting until next cycle? especially W&L.

[Borhas]

I am also applying to W&L, just submitted my WM app , wont be complete until tuesday though. How much better arre my chances at all 3 schools, including the amount of money I get, by waiting until next cycle? especially W&L.

depends...

first, applying early (like ASAP) is a significant boost
second, could you bring your GPA up to 3.2? 3.3?
third, could you bring your LSAT up to 170?

ultimately, my guess is yes it'll be at least slightly easier because the economy seems to have stabilized, but then again it seems like every year has been tougher than the last.

May as well see if you get some money from W&L, then leverage that w/ U of R to get more money out of them. W&L gave out fat scholarships last year to LSAT splitters.

[TyrodTaylor]

well im a year and a half out of school. Ive been worknig the whole time. So GPa is a no, lsat 170 could be done, if i wait til september to apply. I am gonna aply to all 3 and see wher I land money wise. I just know if richmond is justifiable without a full ride. Even with a fat scholarship to W&L, it would have to balance out the in staet tuition that i could potentially get form getting into William and Mary. But you are right, wait and see.

[vamedic03]

well im a year and a half out of school. Ive been worknig the whole time. So GPa is a no, lsat 170 could be done, if i wait til september to apply. I am gonna aply to all 3 and see wher I land money wise. I just know if richmond is justifiable without a full ride. Even with a fat scholarship to W&L, it would have to balance out the in staet tuition that i could potentially get form getting into William and Mary. But you are right, wait and see.

If you have work experience and a 170 LSAT, you have a shot at UVA if you ED instate.

[TyrodTaylor]

update: In at Both schools, waiting on $ info...withdrew from W&L.

[hmmhaa77]

the most money Richmond offers in scholarship is for the John Marshall Scholarship and that is only $25,000 a year. They do not give full rides.

[TyrodTaylor]

Richmond offers 20K scholly plus if you get john marshall, that is 10k on top of that. Thats what admissions told me on numerous occasions. So if you get marshall, you have 30k, 10 of which has stips for top 3rd, the other 20 doesnt go anywhere. SO 90k is the most possible scholly at UR over 3 years.

[hmmhaa77]

Oh yeah, sorry I looked at it again and you are right. It is 30 a year, I think I was going off some old stats.