Phoenix School of Law vs. Appalachian School of Law Forum

[BG4444]

Petition a school to allow you to take the LSAT for a fourth time.

153,154,156....I was always disappointed because I was getting 157-160 on the practice exames. Is a retake really worth petitioning and waiting another year?

If your only other options are Phoenix or Appalachian? Yes. You need a beasty LSAT score to offset that GPA.

Couldn't guarantee I'd get that. Would it be that easy to have my petition succeed given my gpa and test score history? What reasons would I use?

[BG4444]

If you can't retake the LSAT. I would, at least, reapply EVERYWHERE the first day applications are out. Your low scores and the fact that you waited till July hurt you, if you can't change the numbers you can at least change the date.

What is the best outcome in that case, a stack of tier 4's? Do any t4 schools offer decent employment opportunities?

[somewhatwayward]

U Albany. #1 Party school in US.

now that is news to me

[BG4444]

I'd like to speak with some PSL graduates, I wonder how to reach them.

[BG4444]

U Albany. #1 Party school in US.

now that is news to me

It was named #1 by Princeton review for two of the years I attended. Meanwhile Playboy made a top party school list saying UAlbany would not be listed because it is unfair to list professionals amongst the other schools.

[mihk1151]

That's funny, because playboy said the same thing about my schools, Penn State & JMU...pretty sure those things are all made up with no no possible way to identify their credibility, unless its straight out of the magazine. Btw, I suggest PSL over ASL, simply because ASL amounts to nothing in the state of VA. I can't really say much about PSL, but Az seems like a state with less competition aka better job opportunities for non tier 1 graduates. Best of luck to ya!

[sundevil77]

I've also heard ASU has the city on lock, can anyone confirm this?

Also, would anyone object that PSL is better than ASL?

I know only a little bit about PSL as I have friends that are considering going there. I think it's a bad investment purely because I wouldn't pay that sum of money to go to a T4 school.

However, if you are set on going to one of these schools, I will give you what information I know. First, PSL has only be open for a couple of years, but recently received full accredidation. Second, I have heard that their bar passage rates are actually quite good- better than both ASU and UofA on the most recent test. Nevertheless, I would almost guarantee that you have no shot at landing a big Phoenix firm out of PSL, but I have heard of small to mid-size firms that have PSL SAs/new hires (not sure if that is pre-ITE or ITE).

As to your question on ASU dominating the market, the answer is no. ASU and UofA together dominate the market. One thing to think about is the possibility of transferring to ASU from PSL. I know over in the ASU 2010 thread, a PSL 1L who was top 10% just made it off the waitlist for ASU. I know most people will tell you not to bank on that happening, but it is something to think about.

In the end, I would strongly advise against anyone making this type of big investment when the prospects of landing a good job are slim. If you do go, work your butt off to try and transfer, although you should know that every other student at the school is thinking the same thing. However, PSL might make it to T3 one of these days and then who knows!

[BG4444]

That's funny, because playboy said the same thing about my schools, Penn State & JMU...pretty sure those things are all made up with no no possible way to identify their credibility, unless its straight out of the magazine. Btw, I suggest PSL over ASL, simply because ASL amounts to nothing in the state of VA. I can't really say much about PSL, but Az seems like a state with less competition aka better job opportunities for non tier 1 graduates. Best of luck to ya!

Thank you, yeah I agree about the party school reviews, although it seemed alcoholism and smoking were staples of the student body at UAlbany.

[theskippa10]

how the fuck did you get a 0.0 one semester? My first year i went to class maybe 2 days a week, missed weeks at a time for no apparent reason, and pulled a 2.7

[sundevil77]

There is one consideration that might not be so obvious to most people posting here. Arizona has a history of being rather under-lawyered. Until recently, there was no reciprocity or admission on motion so everyone had to take the AZ Bar. That, coupled with the fact that, up to the 2008 Crash, Arizona was one of the fastest growing states in the Union, meant that there was a lot of opportunity for new lawyers. My state, New Mexico, hasn't been bad in that respect, but Arizona was a potential El Dorado.

For its population, AZ is still nothing like over-lawyered though the areas of commercial practice have changed.

My point in all this is that if the OP wants to make a career in Arizona, that might be a pretty shrewd choice. A Phoenix Law J.D. might be a very good way to gain entrance into the Phoenix market.

While much of this is credited, the Great Recession has taken a HUGE toll on Arizona. The legal market is heavily real estate dependent; you can imagine what that has done. The state had spent itself wildly out of control under JaNo, and now that the real estate market has gone belly up, the state has no money. However, bankruptcy lawyers are doing quite well so we got that going for us.

[lawschoollll]

Am I the first to say flame?

Edit: Just kidding. Go to ASL for BIGAppalachianLAW.

[Grizz]

Are you sure you want to go to law school?

Not 100% sure but it sounds interesting and fitting. I'd like to go if it doesn't mean self destruction.

Yeah, you should probably not go.

[BeautifulSW]

One other thing about Phoenix Law; it offers part-time day and part-time evening programs. The ability to work during law school can dramatically reduce the total cost of the degree. ASU, which is a pretty good school, by the way, offers flexible scheduling in its day program but does not offer a genuine part-time day program nor any sort of evening program. OTOH, ASU's annual tuition for residents is about $20,000 so doing ASU full time might compare with doing Phoenix part-time and working.

Of course, ASU is a T2 school for what that's worth. I don't think Phoenix is ranked.

[BruceBarr]

You're all idiots. This is a flame.

[Bildungsroman]

You're all idiots. This is a flame.

GTFO

[sundevil77]

Of course, ASU is a T2 school for what that's worth. I don't think Phoenix is ranked.

I'm going to UA, but to be fair, ASU is not T2 (at least after the doctored rankings of 2010). I believe they went from 55 to 38. Where is the line for T1/T2?

[Grizz]

Of course, ASU is a T2 school for what that's worth. I don't think Phoenix is ranked.

I'm going to UA, but to be fair, ASU is not T2 (at least after the doctored rankings of 2010). I believe they went from 55 to 38. Where is the line for T1/T2?

T1? T2? Who cares. Both give you a good shot for jobs in AZ.

[hiromoto45]

Email Candy, she might have something for u.

[GatorStudent]

Assuming this is not flame (which it very well might be), you really should reconsider law school if these are your only options. Even at "decent" schools like UF, you're going to be lucky (especially with the legal economy) of landing a 50k/yr. job. With all due respect to PSL or APL, I doubt you're looking anywhere near those numbers (at least for the average student).

You're probably going to hate yourself for going 150k in debt with the great likelihood that you earn 35k/yr. for quite some time. How much would you have to pay back per month in loan payments? 1600/1700 per month? Does anyone know?

I wish you the best of luck. Perhaps, if you wait, you can always retake in a few years and see what happens. Right now, though, it would be a very poor choice.

[Case2L]

I would choose ASL. I'm a VA native & know a few people that have gone there, and they speak fondly of the school. Obviously ASL does not have a spectacular reputation, but they deal with the fact that they are a 4th tier school by carving a niche in public interest. They place all of their students in an externship, as it is part of the curriculum; and I imagine that experience could be vital for getting a job after graduation. There's not a lot going on in rural Southwest Virginia, but the Blue Ridge Mountains are beautiful and it would be a great place to live for 3 years. And while there are probably not a lot of jobs in Appalachia, there's probably not a lot of competition either. Most graduates of VA schools practice in either Richmond, Hampton Roads, or NOVA/DC.

[BeautifulSW]

Well, I am a Westerner born and bred so that might explain my preference for Arizona over the D.C. area. I know that the AZ economy has cratered and that Phoenix in places looks like a set for a sci-fi movie about After the Bomb but I really don't believe that the Grand Canyon State can stay down for long. It's got too much going for it. Phoenix is not just a financial center; it's also the commercial center for an extensive mining district and a major manufacturing and agriculture hub. And that's just Phoenix. The rest of the state has a lot going on, too. It isn't just retirement villages.

If I were a young law student, Arizona would be high on my list of places to make a career and a life.

[b1ue]

wow

[NU_Jet55]

U Albany. #1 Party school in US [insert made up statistic to con people into spending 4+ years of their life in Albany here.]

[NU_Jet55]

OP, assuming you're not a flame, your 3 options are outlined below.

Option A:
1. Don't go to law school

Option B:
1. Go to one of these schools
2. Go into crippling, life-long debt
3. Upon graduation, look for a job as a lawyer for 5+ years after graduation while working for free underneath your choice of local ambulance chasers
4. Realize that your school choice destroyed any chance you had at something resembling a career in law
5. Change Careers

Option C:
1. Go to neither school
2: Take as many easy UG classes over the next 1-2 years as possible
3. Get all A's, boost GPA to 3.0+
4. Study relentlessly for the LSAT at the same time, find a school (somewhere will bite) to get you a waiver for the 4th LSAT
5. Apply on the first possible date to a wide range of splitter friendly schools (168, 3.0 would give you a shot at a scholly at WUSTL, Iowa, UIUC, IUB, and the like-all infintely better options than you're currently considering)

[BG4444]

how the fuck did you get a 0.0 one semester? My first year i went to class maybe 2 days a week, missed weeks at a time for no apparent reason, and pulled a 2.7

Attempted to pull out that semester, didn't go well. An online add/drop/withdrawal system was in beta at SUNY A. that semester, and when I thought I confirmed dropping courses, apparently I didn't. I attempted dropping just before the due date for dropping courses. Didn't realize what happened til it was too late, and did not successfully appeal after I found out months later. Don't worry, that is not an indicator of my ability to argue. But yes, how the fuck indeed.