Law School Rankings: A new perspective Forum

[freebirdlv]

--ImageRemoved--

[dresden doll]

Saw UT ranked above YLS and immediately knew how I felt about this perspective. No offense to UT-ers on the interwebz and otherwise, but that's a joke.

[masochist]

8 University of Florida Levin College of Law

Also, why would we accept rankings from a magazine so devoid of shame that it woukd unironically name itself "Super Lawyers"?

This made me blow coffee out of my nose. You, sir, deserve a double rainbow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSNhk5ICTI

Seriously. Failing to adjust for differences in the size of classes makes this system ridiculous. Apply the same metrics to UG. You could argue that Ohio State is academically superior to Swarthmore in any category you selected (nothing against OSU).

[dgthree]

8 University of Florida Levin College of Law

Also, why would we accept rankings from a magazine so devoid of shame that it woukd unironically name itself "Super Lawyers"?

This made me blow coffee out of my nose. You, sir, deserve a double rainbow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSNhk5ICTI

Seriously. Failing to adjust for differences in the size of classes makes this system ridiculous. Apply the same metrics to UG. You could argue that Ohio State is academically superior to Swarthmore in any category you selected (nothing against OSU).

I agree with your sentiment, but I see a flaw in the consensus argument that a modified/adjusted will easily fix the problem.

You would have to a historical trend, because a school who has a class size of 450 in 2010, says nothing about the alumni who graduated in 1967.

As to the Leiter adjustment it makes no sense to me, because the 3,000+ for Harvard are not from the most recent class so why use that as a denominator in the equation. You could not even use total alumni because it is not representative for schools that were opened in the 1800's and schools in the 1950's. Irrespective of others beliefs, I do not see a more "fair" way to rank schools by "super lawyers".

[sumus romani]

I can't for the life of me figure out what in the hell most of you are talking about. Yale does not admit students based on whether they will be super-lawyers (whatever that is). So far as I know, no school does this. Instead, admissions criteria are different for different schools.

Why should it surprise anyone that state flagship law schools do really well on such a ranking? The ranking is not a ranking of the quality or presitige of the school, but of its past in having produced super-lawyers (again, whatever that is). Schools presumably could do well in this ranking by selecting the top 10% during 1L and giving them all of the resources during their 2Ls and 3Ls, leaving the other 90% with no resources whatsoever.

[Bildungsroman]

Also, why would we accept rankings from a magazine so devoid of shame that it woukd unironically name itself "Super Lawyers"?

So you would gladly take in crap from a magazine claiming to be news

These rankings you are touting place UFlorida above Yale, UC Hastings above UPenn and UChi, and GW above Stanford and Northwestern, all of which is ridiculous without even having to get into the relative merits of the USN&WR ranking system. Super Lawyer's rankings are more worthless than tits on a bull.

hth

I see a few of you are having trouble understanding/accepting/recognizing a new system. That's what usually happens I dont blame anyone. Adaptation guys.

You are one of the more interesting flames in a while.

Also, freebirdlv, you just made me lol irl.

[Brassica7]

I noticed that NYU didn't fair very well. How long has NYU been a good law school? As I understand it, 30 years ago it was more of a night/commuter school. If NYU was not a top law school a generation ago, that might explain why it's older graduates are not dominating their fields. However, its more recent grads may be entering the legal field with more opportunities and might show up as more "superlawyers" in another 10-20 years.

[BroCHILLOUT]

I noticed that NYU didn't fair very well. How long has NYU been a good law school? As I understand it, 30 years ago it was more of a night/commuter school. If NYU was not a top law school a generation ago, that might explain why it's older graduates are not dominating their fields. However, its more recent grads may be entering the legal field with more opportunities and might show up as more "superlawyers" in another 10-20 years.

I believe NYU is pretty much up there as usual with super lawyers... #6

[bk1]

This troll needed more subtlety for me to give it a 180. Something like a valiant defense of why SL doesn't rank Yale higher yet the methodology is still worthwhile in general. Sadly, that didn't happen so I say:

150

[BroCHILLOUT]

This troll needed more subtlety for me to give it a 180. Something like a valiant defense of why SL doesn't rank Yale higher yet the methodology is still worthwhile in general. Sadly, that didn't happen so I say:

150

if you're a yale graduate, then you better off then every other law school graduate in the country?

If you're a yale graduate, and competing with a harvard graduate in a harvard dominated firm (which I'm sure out numbers those of Yale) , then you are not going to get the job.

Both of these can't be true, unless you take into consideration a self-constructed subjective ideal/opinion.

So based on pure numbers... you do the thinking.

Based on clerkships & other "prestigious" gov positions.. yale grads have 1st dibs... but what if ur a yale grad that didn't get into those "prestigious" gov jobs?.... good luck with your alumni network that is far inferior in numbers compared to the other schools in the top-10.

[masochist]

8 University of Florida Levin College of Law

Also, why would we accept rankings from a magazine so devoid of shame that it woukd unironically name itself "Super Lawyers"?

This made me blow coffee out of my nose. You, sir, deserve a double rainbow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSNhk5ICTI

Seriously. Failing to adjust for differences in the size of classes makes this system ridiculous. Apply the same metrics to UG. You could argue that Ohio State is academically superior to Swarthmore in any category you selected (nothing against OSU).

I agree with your sentiment, but I see a flaw in the consensus argument that a modified/adjusted will easily fix the problem.

You would have to a historical trend, because a school who has a class size of 450 in 2010, says nothing about the alumni who graduated in 1967.

As to the Leiter adjustment it makes no sense to me, because the 3,000+ for Harvard are not from the most recent class so why use that as a denominator in the equation. You could not even use total alumni because it is not representative for schools that were opened in the 1800's and schools in the 1950's. Irrespective of others beliefs, I do not see a more "fair" way to rank schools by "super lawyers".

Not to get too social-sciencey here, but we have a kind of a tricky problem with putting together a fair sample. One way around it would be to adjust by the most recent class size. This isn't a perfect adjustment, but it would be a reasonably accurate proxy for a far more complicated adjustment that considers changes in class size over time, date founded, average age of a "super lawyer," etc. The better way would be to randomly select from each of the schools an equal number of graduates from a specified range of years. Then the problem of variable base rates is eliminated, and an unbiased estimate of the proportion of each schools graduates who become "super lawyers" could be obtained.

Or we could all agree that we don't care what Super Lawyer has to say. I vote for this option.

[westbayguy]

Also the ranking does not reflect the number of HYSChi grads who end up in academia, government and judging and are not included in Super Lawyer numbers. Of course that cuts both ways as many regional schools are overrepresented on their local benches, DC schools overrepresntation in DC govt, etc, but on balance the failure to account for other employment probably adversely affects the top schools a little more. Just a "social sciency" thought in case someone actually wanted to give some credence to the adjusted for class size numbers.

[BroCHILLOUT]

lol you harvard haters... when are you going to learn???? Harvard > all of you and your schools combined.

[clintonius]

Failed flame is failed. It's ok. We understand. No shame in cutting your losses.

[AJRESQ]

who the fuck is superlawyers to define success

Do you have any idea what superlawyers is?

Also, I think they did a nice job. Temple at 28 sounds about right.

[Fenris]

Who is Superlawyers

[AJRESQ]

Who is Superlawyers

It's an organization that certifies lawyers as "Super Lawyers" or "Rising Stars" based on peer review. It's a big deal, but more in Plaintiff's work. Basically, it's like being one of the popular kids. Being rated a Super Lawyer is important to a lot of lawyers in the field.

If a school is producing a lot of Super Lawyers, it means they're producing a lot of attorneys who are actually in the field and making things happen. That's important IMO. For instance, a school like American might be "prestigious" for one reason or another, but they're not producing a lot of of lawyers who are peer rated in the field. Conversely, a regional T2 like Villanova is producing a lot of Super Lawyers, meaning there are a lot of Villanova grads actually in the field, practicing, and getting recognized.

Put it this way, I would rather go to a school that produces a lot of Super Lawyers than a school USN&WR says is "highly ranked."

Also, regarding Yale... the ranking isn't saying which schools have the highest quality applicants. It's simply ranking them on which schools produce the most Super Lawyers. Graduates from Yale probably go into academia at a higher rate or into fields where they wouldn't be recognized by their peers or the majority of the day to day legal community. It's not saying Yale isn't a great school, what it means is that Yale graduates aren't recognized in practice as often. I can't say I've ever met a Yale grad in practice.

[chris0805]

But aren't smaller Plaintiffs lawyers over-represented in Superlawyers. I could be mistaken, but I don't think you see a lot of BIGLAW partners, general counsels, federal judges, ACLU/HRW/NAACP LDF lawyers , professors, etc. making it into superlawyers. From a T10 law school, those are kind of the ideal goals. So... measuring them on (to some extent) who's producing the best plaintiff firms litigators seems like a lousy metric.

[Warhawk]

Some of you are just mad that the schools that you all are attending right now are being knocked down and that's ok. Reality hurts.

Lets hope you never run into any reality then.

[BroCHILLOUT]

Some of you are just mad that the schools that you all are attending right now are being knocked down and that's ok. Reality hurts.

Lets hope you never run into any reality then.

LOL ... look at this guy ... mr. Illinois dropped from 21 to 40... and booom "no no... these rankings dont make ANY sense." REALITY HURTS buddy...

[Bildungsroman]

Some of you are just mad that the schools that you all are attending right now are being knocked down and that's ok. Reality hurts.

Lets hope you never run into any reality then.

LOL ... look at this guy ... mr. Illinois dropped from 21 to 40... and booom "no no... these rankings dont make ANY sense." REALITY HURTS buddy...

And your motives aren't suspicious at all even though SteTTTson rose from tier 3 to #69.

[BroCHILLOUT]

Some of you are just mad that the schools that you all are attending right now are being knocked down and that's ok. Reality hurts.

Lets hope you never run into any reality then.

LOL ... look at this guy ... mr. Illinois dropped from 21 to 40... and booom "no no... these rankings dont make ANY sense." REALITY HURTS buddy...

And your motives aren't suspicious at all even though SteTTTson rose from tier 3 to #69.

I never really said i was for or against super lawyers. you can check my posts... if i were YOU i wouldn't ASSUME anything.

[Chuch]

TLS:

I FOUND NEW/DIFFERENT RANKINGS!!!

Yale is not #1 so whatever this is purportedly ranking is stupid and the methodology is flawed. This ranking is stupid and unhelpful.

I think this actually makes a lot of sense. If you want whatever this ranking is ranking, my school is a smart choice.

We need to stop focusing exclusively on USNews because rankings like these can be extremely helpful and offer a fresh insight. Its not that my school is better than Columbia but for some things we are as good as or better than Columbia... as indicated by these completely legitimate rankings that we should keep focusing on

::takes a moment to recover from mind exploding after exposure to new information that challenges the accepted worldview they have been propagating since joining TLS sometime earlier this year:: This is stupid. If you want NYC biglaw, all the statistics that i've seen say go to NYU or Columbia and maybe Chi which is also good for academia and clerkships. That is of course if you can't get into HYS which is good everywhere. Virginia places well in DC. Penn is good for NY. Columbia places better than NYU in other markets. Texas is a much worse school than Georgetown.

[Grizz]

TLS:

I FOUND NEW/DIFFERENT RANKINGS!!!

Yale is not #1 so whatever this is purportedly ranking is stupid and the methodology is flawed. This ranking is stupid and unhelpful.

I think this actually makes a lot of sense. If you want whatever this ranking is ranking, my school is a smart choice.

We need to stop focusing exclusively on USNews because rankings like these can be extremely helpful and offer a fresh insight. Its not that my school is better than Columbia but for some things we are as good as or better than Columbia... as indicated by these completely legitimate rankings that we should keep focusing on

::takes a moment to recover from mind exploding after exposure to new information that challenges the accepted worldview they have been propagating since joining TLS sometime earlier this year:: This is stupid. If you want NYC biglaw, all the statistics that i've seen say go to NYU or Columbia and maybe Chi which is also good for academia and clerkships. That is of course if you can't get into HYS which is good everywhere. Virginia places well in DC. Penn is good for NY. Columbia places better than NYU in other markets. Texas is a much worse school than Georgetown.

tl;dr

[BroCHILLOUT]

TLS:

I FOUND NEW/DIFFERENT RANKINGS!!!

Yale is not #1 so whatever this is purportedly ranking is stupid and the methodology is flawed. This ranking is stupid and unhelpful.

I think this actually makes a lot of sense. If you want whatever this ranking is ranking, my school is a smart choice.

We need to stop focusing exclusively on USNews because rankings like these can be extremely helpful and offer a fresh insight. Its not that my school is better than Columbia but for some things we are as good as or better than Columbia... as indicated by these completely legitimate rankings that we should keep focusing on

::takes a moment to recover from mind exploding after exposure to new information that challenges the accepted worldview they have been propagating since joining TLS sometime earlier this year:: This is stupid. If you want NYC biglaw, all the statistics that i've seen say go to NYU or Columbia and maybe Chi which is also good for academia and clerkships. That is of course if you can't get into HYS which is good everywhere. Virginia places well in DC. Penn is good for NY. Columbia places better than NYU in other markets. Texas is a much worse school than Georgetown.

i like where ur heads at. but the last one is too broad and probably isn't as accurate as the first few.