Any risk in telling a school you're unhappy with them? Forum

[eudaimondaimon]

It is certain that at some point in your legal career you're going to have to utilize tact and communicate something to someone who would really wish not to hear it, and do it all without offending.

Go ahead and get some practice while the stakes are low. 'Cause I'll bet that at least some small part of your motivation for doing this is to show-off/exercise your skill at communicating, right?

[romothesavior]

Just be respectful, and I don't see a problem. If anything, they will appreciate the feedback and perhaps take it into consideration.

[Regionality]

What is the point? You are withdrawing anyway, so just let it go. You have nothing to gain out of it, and potentially something to lose if you piss them off.

I think this mentality is exactly why people often times don't improve their practices or change how they treat people...on a number of different fronts. I'm not apathetic and I do care, and I do care how their office treats other applicants and I am interested to see what the dean might say. Plus, I don't agree I have nothing to gain. Getting a response would be something to gain...having the dean think "now this guy actually says what he thinks and does it in an intelligent and classy way" is something to gain.

[Regionality]

It is certain that at some point in your legal career you're going to have to utilize tact and communicate something to someone who would really wish not to hear it, and do it all without offending.

Go ahead and get some practice while the stakes are low. 'Cause I'll bet that at least some small part of your motivation for doing this is to show-off/exercise your skill at communicating, right?

Very true...I often respond to events I view as unfair by speaking up, and I always try to do it in an intelligent and respectful way, and I DO feel it hones my skills as a communicator and an advocate, which is what a lawyer is.

[romothesavior]

It is certain that at some point in your legal career you're going to have to utilize tact and communicate something to someone who would really wish not to hear it, and do it all without offending.

Go ahead and get some practice while the stakes are low. 'Cause I'll bet that at least some small part of your motivation for doing this is to show-off/exercise your skill at communicating, right?

Very true...I often respond to events I view as unfair by speaking up, and I always try to do it in an intelligent and respectful way, and I DO feel it hones my skills as a communicator and an advocate, which is what a lawyer is.

I have to smile because this is EXACTLY what my grandpa does, and it taught me an important lesson. He always speaks up when he felt he was slighted by a customer service rep, restaurant, etc. He never is unreasonable about it and he ALWAYS gives credit where it is due, but he always says, "If no one speaks up, then no one will ever change anything." I definitely agree with your philosophy.

Again, just be respectful in your letter. And good luck with your Wash U waitlist. Maybe I'll see ya in the fall.

[rockchalk86]

What is the point? You are withdrawing anyway, so just let it go. You have nothing to gain out of it, and potentially something to lose if you piss them off.

I think this mentality is exactly why people often times don't improve their practices or change how they treat people...on a number of different fronts. I'm not apathetic and I do care, and I do care how their office treats other applicants and I am interested to see what the dean might say. Plus, I don't agree I have nothing to gain. Getting a response would be something to gain...having the dean think "now this guy actually says what he thinks and does it in an intelligent and classy way" is something to gain.

Wow... Really? Who gives a shit about what some dean who you will probably never meet thinks of you? I'm not trying to be a dick, but it sounds like you have some self-esteem issues.

[legal_eagle]

What is the point? You are withdrawing anyway, so just let it go. You have nothing to gain out of it, and potentially something to lose if you piss them off.

I think this mentality is exactly why people often times don't improve their practices or change how they treat people...on a number of different fronts. I'm not apathetic and I do care, and I do care how their office treats other applicants and I am interested to see what the dean might say. Plus, I don't agree I have nothing to gain. Getting a response would be something to gain...having the dean think "now this guy actually says what he thinks and does it in an intelligent and classy way" is something to gain.

Wow... Really? Who gives a shit about what some dean who you will probably never meet thinks of you? I'm not trying to be a dick, but it sounds like you have some self-esteem issues.

+1 why waste your time

[Regionality]

What is the point? You are withdrawing anyway, so just let it go. You have nothing to gain out of it, and potentially something to lose if you piss them off.

I think this mentality is exactly why people often times don't improve their practices or change how they treat people...on a number of different fronts. I'm not apathetic and I do care, and I do care how their office treats other applicants and I am interested to see what the dean might say. Plus, I don't agree I have nothing to gain. Getting a response would be something to gain...having the dean think "now this guy actually says what he thinks and does it in an intelligent and classy way" is something to gain.

Wow... Really? Who gives a shit about what some dean who you will probably never meet thinks of you? I'm not trying to be a dick, but it sounds like you have some self-esteem issues.

Well first of all, I'm a pretty efficient letter writer, and I drafted a copy in less than 10 minutes, so it's hardly a waste of time. Next, I don't care what the dean thinks of ME, I care what they think of their own admissions process. I'm not trying to gain credibility with this person, I'm trying to convey an opinion I have regarding their admissions process which is unique to them (I applied to more schools than I would like to admit and I didn't experience this with any others). I'm trying to affect change through words, which is pretty much ALL lawyers do...and I think it's a fun, rewarding and intellectually worthwhile exercise.

I mean, come on people. Why are any of us on these blogs giving advice to people? Most likely we'll never meet these people and our help will most likely never be rewarded...we do it because we CARE to make the process easier and more understandable for fellow and future applicants.

People on TLS love and hate various admissions processes, and for good reason. We LOVE Dean Pless of Illinois for his transparency, honesty and high level of useful communication. We resent Davis because they take 7+ months to make decisions...we question UNC when they ask us to manually mail back barcoded waitlist form. This process is INSANE, and any little bit each of us can do to help is worth it. We also appreciate it when our questions are answered with logical and well-thought out opinions because it makes the applicant considering Fordham over WUSTL not feel crazy, and it makes the applicant considering Golden Gate Law School think twice about spending 40k/yr on a legal education...

So I do see value in writing a letter. Maybe they will read it and go "damn, I thought I had created an admissions process that avoided disgruntled admitted students" or maybe the dean will write back and say "Gee, I'm really sorry, I am going to try to avoid this in the future"...or maybe I will get no response/outcome at all, but at least I didn't just bite my tonge simply because it wasn't obviously going to benefit me.

I have lived my life by the mantra that if you don't ask, you won't receive, and if you don't speak up, you won't be heard. So maybe I won't get any result, but maybe I will, and at least I will have said my word.

My original question was is there any risk to sending this letter, and I still wonder.

/rant.

[Always Credited]

I did this only when I was directly asked why I was withdrawing. Then I told the schools my entire opinion...sometimes they responded positively and sometimes they responded not at all.

[yo!]

TBF to Davis, they have been extremely helpful to me and I only had to wait four months for a decision. When I emailed them in early April and politely asked when I would get a decision, they gave me one two days later. When I emailed Dean Johnson to beg for a merit scholarship, he immediately forwarded my email to the fin. aid office and I was awarded a small scholarship the next day. Christina was extremely nice, both in person and over the phone. Helpful hint: she will NEVER answer her phone, but will immediately call back if you leave a voicemail. You could call 50 times, leave no messages, and receive no response though

With that said, there was absolutely no excuse for leaving so main people in EIP hell into may. Some of these people had applied in October! To make things worse, it seems that everyone that had to wait that long was either rejected or WLed. Brutal, Davis.....brutal.....

[UFmark]

Just be respectful, and I don't see a problem. If anything, they will appreciate the feedback and perhaps take it into consideration.

TITCR

[quickquestionthanks]

Hi all,

So I am withdrawing from a school today and in the end I have felt they have handled their admissions process with me pretty terribly. Is there a risk in sending them a withdrawal email and giving them a polite piece of my mind in the withdrawal? I feel like I have nothing to lose with regards to this specific school, and the only risk might be if they told other schools.

Should these adcoms be told when we're unhappy?

Joining this discussion late, but my response to the title would be "is there any benefit (to you) in telling a school you're unhappy with them?"

Short-term emotional release aside, you really only risk harming yourself. The best case scenario, they are a little better to people other than you next year. Worst case scenario, they talk shit about you or some dick in the office scans your mailed letter and posts it online for all to see.

If you just want to vent, write the letter and don't mail it.

[rockchalk86]

What is the point? You are withdrawing anyway, so just let it go. You have nothing to gain out of it, and potentially something to lose if you piss them off.

I think this mentality is exactly why people often times don't improve their practices or change how they treat people...on a number of different fronts. I'm not apathetic and I do care, and I do care how their office treats other applicants and I am interested to see what the dean might say. Plus, I don't agree I have nothing to gain. Getting a response would be something to gain...having the dean think "now this guy actually says what he thinks and does it in an intelligent and classy way" is something to gain.

Wow... Really? Who gives a shit about what some dean who you will probably never meet thinks of you? I'm not trying to be a dick, but it sounds like you have some self-esteem issues.

Well first of all, I'm a pretty efficient letter writer, and I drafted a copy in less than 10 minutes, so it's hardly a waste of time. Next, I don't care what the dean thinks of ME, I care what they think of their own admissions process. I'm not trying to gain credibility with this person, I'm trying to convey an opinion I have regarding their admissions process which is unique to them (I applied to more schools than I would like to admit and I didn't experience this with any others). I'm trying to affect change through words, which is pretty much ALL lawyers do...and I think it's a fun, rewarding and intellectually worthwhile exercise.

I mean, come on people. Why are any of us on these blogs giving advice to people? Most likely we'll never meet these people and our help will most likely never be rewarded...we do it because we CARE to make the process easier and more understandable for fellow and future applicants.

People on TLS love and hate various admissions processes, and for good reason. We LOVE Dean Pless of Illinois for his transparency, honesty and high level of useful communication. We resent Davis because they take 7+ months to make decisions...we question UNC when they ask us to manually mail back barcoded waitlist form. This process is INSANE, and any little bit each of us can do to help is worth it. We also appreciate it when our questions are answered with logical and well-thought out opinions because it makes the applicant considering Fordham over WUSTL not feel crazy, and it makes the applicant considering Golden Gate Law School think twice about spending 40k/yr on a legal education...

So I do see value in writing a letter. Maybe they will read it and go "damn, I thought I had created an admissions process that avoided disgruntled admitted students" or maybe the dean will write back and say "Gee, I'm really sorry, I am going to try to avoid this in the future"...or maybe I will get no response/outcome at all, but at least I didn't just bite my tonge simply because it wasn't obviously going to benefit me.

I have lived my life by the mantra that if you don't ask, you won't receive, and if you don't speak up, you won't be heard. So maybe I won't get any result, but maybe I will, and at least I will have said my word.

My original question was is there any risk to sending this letter, and I still wonder.

/rant.

[Regionality]

I don't care if the dean thinks negatively of me...I care if he thinks he should change things and I care if me saying something affects that change. I'm not running for office dude, catching me in an apparent self-contradiction won't change my opinions on the matter...especially since i have nothing to hide from the people reading this thread and I guarantee you I'm not "flip flopping" on my feelings regarding writing a letter in an attempt to please TLS readers and posters.

[eth3n]

To answer your original question, of course there is a risk.

You never know how pissing someone off can come back around to haunt you, despite seemingly impossible odds.

Even if you preface it suggesting that you are trying to help them (and even if you actually feel this way), it will always be taken as a slight. Altruism isn't; so its hard for people to accept uninvited criticism as an action purely for their benefit.

[BriaTharen]

I wish NightRunner was here.
He'd know what to do.

[JCougar]

I wish NightRunner was here.
He'd know what to do.

LOL.

[webbylu87]

I wish NightRunner was here.
He'd know what to do.

LOL.

Definitely missing something here.

[JCougar]

I wish NightRunner was here.
He'd know what to do.

LOL.

Definitely missing something here.

You need to follow the Cornell Waiting Room thread. Then things will be clear.

[webbylu87]

I wish NightRunner was here.
He'd know what to do.

LOL.

Definitely missing something here.

You need to follow the Cornell Waiting Room thread. Then things will be clear.

Just read it. EPIC. I won't quote as per Nightrunner's posting regrets but I bet it felt amazing to send that!

[TheBigMediocre]

This will save you some footwork if you decide to send your letter.

http://www.pakin.org/complaint/

[Sias]

Hi all,

So I am withdrawing from a school today and in the end I have felt they have handled their admissions process with me pretty terribly. Is there a risk in sending them a withdrawal email and giving them a polite piece of my mind in the withdrawal? I feel like I have nothing to lose with regards to this specific school, and the only risk might be if they told other schools.

Should these adcoms be told when we're unhappy?

What happened during the admissions process that you felt was poorly handled? I personally find it difficult to give advice without knowing, as some people tend to be less reasonable than others.

[Barolo]

Provided that you are honest and polite, I see little risk. But take a few days before sending it. This should not be a condemnation of their process, simply helpful feedback.

[jks289]

Law school faculty and administration run in a very small circle, and have a lot of communication with one another. If your letter comes off as entitled or obnoxious (and if you are writing in anger, it very well may) there is an exceedingly good chance it will get back to a Dean or faculty member who's opinion of you DOES matter. I think it is a mistake to write it, though I did find Nightrunner's letter amusing.

[d34d9823]

Some people hadn't received their INITIAL decision until like a week or so ago. Supposedly they have a "wholistic" approach which causes the delay, but I think they're just understaffed and/or inefficient.

Best eggcorn ever