Harvard (sticker), Berkeley (sticker), Texas (full ride) Forum

[JollyGreenGiant]

^ Where is the link on Columbia's website? I realize a student anonymously released info here.

Calm down, 0L.

I don't get why I'm not calm. And I don't get why someone would need to make up this data. As long as we're talking about what I don't understand, what makes this data unbelievable?

Because a lot of people on TLS are full of shit.

You just troll too much for CCN. I said HYS pulled away from the pack ite and you turned this into a discussion about CCN. If those are legit numbers, then HYS is probably doing a lot better than that.

When do I troll for CCN? I always tell people (in this forum) to go to either the best school possible (which more often than not is a CCN) or to the best school in their region.

I'm not "trolling" for CCN when I cite their employment statistics. If anything, you're trolling against them.

[fwaam]

Harvard reimbursed 0-offered Harvard grads last year. They literally gave back three years worth of tuition. I think this pretty much offsets that full-ride to Texas in a way. But only "in a way," since you'd still have to deal with the Harvard loans if you end up getting a kickass job at Wachtell.

..wasn't that an April Fool's Joke?

There are people out there who believe Harvard would actually do that?

You should meet my parents. They're still convinced Harvard gives merit scholarships, but just keeps it on the down-low.

[A'nold]

If he wants to practice in Texas or Cali... I see no reason to go to Harvard and assume all that debt. I lived in MA for a bit.... it's very expensive in Cambridge. Texas is a T15 school and will easily land you as good a paying job in Cali and for sure in TX. Austin has a better cost of living, arguably a better quality of life...you'll be going to school debt free.... I don't understand the debate here. If he wanted to practice on the East Coast, I can see Harvard entering the picture. But if not... he wants to assume $200k+ in debt just to say you went to "Harvard"?

When you are looking at starting salaries and then salary to debt ratio, it's going to favor Texas IMO. Is there a specific type of law he wants to practice where Harvard has a significant advantage over Texas?

You should not be giving advice. OP's friend: do not listen to this poster.

[005618502]

so i dont undertand why i am a flame?? like someone previously mentioned. I am new to this site and my roomate has only looked at school profiles on it. Anyways thanks for all the great advice everyone! i know this will not sway the decision he makes, but i was curious as to others thought, as i dont understand how one could reject HYS, but i guess thats cause i dont have a high 170's LSAT. I agree with most that texas places well in CA and TX but if the office is deciding between and Harvard grad and a UT grad, i believe the Harvard grad has a large leg up in the selection.

Then there is the debt, which would be nice to only pay 10,000 a year (thats about how much an apartment is here in DT austin, or how much were paying). so 30,000 sounds alot beter then 200k (cost from what ive heard).

Another question, what does CCN mean?

[A'nold]

so i dont undertand why i am a flame?? like someone previously mentioned. I am new to this site and my roomate has only looked at school profiles on it. Anyways thanks for all the great advice everyone! i know this will not sway the decision he makes, but i was curious as to others thought, as i dont understand how one could reject HYS, but i guess thats cause i dont have a high 170's LSAT. I agree with most that texas places well in CA and TX but if the office is deciding between and Harvard grad and a UT grad, i believe the Harvard grad has a large leg up in the selection.

Then there is the debt, which would be nice to only pay 10,000 a year (thats about how much an apartment is here in DT austin, or how much were paying). so 30,000 sounds alot beter then 200k (cost from what ive heard).

Another question, what does CCN mean?

Berkeley should not be in the equation. Like someone said earlier, if his life long goal is to live in Texas and he wants to live there forever, I can see how MAYBE it would be an o.k. decision. Maybe. Otherwise, 100% Harvard.

[krj02004]

If he wants to practice in Texas or Cali... I see no reason to go to Harvard and assume all that debt. I lived in MA for a bit.... it's very expensive in Cambridge. Texas is a T15 school and will easily land you as good a paying job in Cali and for sure in TX. Austin has a better cost of living, arguably a better quality of life...you'll be going to school debt free.... I don't understand the debate here. If he wanted to practice on the East Coast, I can see Harvard entering the picture. But if not... he wants to assume $200k+ in debt just to say you went to "Harvard"?

When you are looking at starting salaries and then salary to debt ratio, it's going to favor Texas IMO. Is there a specific type of law he wants to practice where Harvard has a significant advantage over Texas?

You should not be giving advice. OP's friend: do not listen to this poster.

Why? Because I actually have experience in the legal field in Cali? I've dined with with MANY attorneys from biglaw firms in LA, gone to conventions and dinners... only met a couple of Harvard grads... mostly Texas, UCLA, Standford, and USC. THe most important thing is to makes sure your graduated top of your class. WIth zero debt graduating.... you have more job options to choose from as well. What if the OP changes his mind about biglaw employment?

If the OP for sure knows he wants to practice in Texas or Cali, and is not even thinking about the East Coast, I think the logical choice is to accept Texas at full-ride. Just because Harvard accepts you it doesn't mean in all cases it's the best or only place to go. Get your head outta your a**.

Like I said, having lived in MA for 5 years previously, Austin will have a higher quality of life because it's cheaper as well. Unless his parents are paying his way, if you live in Austin you can have a better apartment than a crummy, cramped, and old studio apartment in Cambridge. Then there is the commute factor if you choose to live farther out. I mean, if the OP's parents are paying for anything anyways, then I guess Harvard would make sense. That's my opinion having lived on both sides of the country.

[Sentry]

.

[swampthang]

So how'd that decision go for your Longhorn friend?

[clintonius]

So how'd that decision go for your Longhorn friend?

Indeed -- I'm curious how this plays out. /back to lurking

[swampthang]

So how'd that decision go for your Longhorn friend?

Indeed -- I'm curious how this plays out. /back to lurking

You're no longer a sheep? Aren't vested interests the best interests?

[clintonius]

Heh, yes. And I have a vested interest in not being ID'd because of my avatar.

[swampthang]

I have a vested interest in not being ID'd because of my avatar.

How so? Should I remove my prior reference? Only if you reveal something to the effect of a.) being from New Zealand or b.) writing a statement about growing up on a sheep farm.

[clintonius]

Haha, no, no need to edit. And (thank god) I am from neither New Zealand nor a sheep farm.

[DoubleChecks]

If he wants to practice in Texas or Cali... I see no reason to go to Harvard and assume all that debt. I lived in MA for a bit.... it's very expensive in Cambridge. Texas is a T15 school and will easily land you as good a paying job in Cali and for sure in TX. Austin has a better cost of living, arguably a better quality of life...you'll be going to school debt free.... I don't understand the debate here. If he wanted to practice on the East Coast, I can see Harvard entering the picture. But if not... he wants to assume $200k+ in debt just to say you went to "Harvard"?

When you are looking at starting salaries and then salary to debt ratio, it's going to favor Texas IMO. Is there a specific type of law he wants to practice where Harvard has a significant advantage over Texas?

You should not be giving advice. OP's friend: do not listen to this poster.

Why? Because I actually have experience in the legal field in Cali? I've dined with with MANY attorneys from biglaw firms in LA, gone to conventions and dinners... only met a couple of Harvard grads... mostly Texas, UCLA, Standford, and USC. THe most important thing is to makes sure your graduated top of your class. WIth zero debt graduating.... you have more job options to choose from as well. What if the OP changes his mind about biglaw employment?

If the OP for sure knows he wants to practice in Texas or Cali, and is not even thinking about the East Coast, I think the logical choice is to accept Texas at full-ride. Just because Harvard accepts you it doesn't mean in all cases it's the best or only place to go. Get your head outta your a**.

Like I said, having lived in MA for 5 years previously, Austin will have a higher quality of life because it's cheaper as well. Unless his parents are paying his way, if you live in Austin you can have a better apartment than a crummy, cramped, and old studio apartment in Cambridge. Then there is the commute factor if you choose to live farther out. I mean, if the OP's parents are paying for anything anyways, then I guess Harvard would make sense. That's my opinion having lived on both sides of the country.

sorry, i have to agree w/ A'nold here. Though you are right about QOL Austin being >>>> MA, Texas will NOT be the smart choice for a person wanting to go to CA (or out of state for that matter)...not anymore. Pre-ITE, yeah sure. ITE? sorry, TX grads cant even get jobs in TX biglaw firms. The woes of that tragedy emanate from their law campus. So while you know a lot of Texas grads in CA firms, this isnt the case any more. i would definitely not tell OP to rely on TX getting him into a CA firm in this economic environment.

full ride TX for a TX biglaw job though is...very tempting. tbh, i had the same choice, and i was 50/50. no, no i lied, i was 51/49. ITE, coming out of HYS you will still get a job, w/ a very good chance of a biglaw job -- esp. if you want to come back to TX like i do for firm work (talking to current HLS 2L's and the like). it is just the cream of the crop jobs that are tougher to get for even HLS students (i.e. some coveted NYC biglaw spots). that being said, no debt from TX is great, but so many are striking out...i just didnt want the added pressure of NEEDING to place top 1/3 or better to have a solid shot at TX biglaw.

imo, OP cant go wrong w/ either TX or HLS. he can go wrong w/ berkeley sticker though lol man it is so expensive now! and to be 'pigeonholed' to CA if he didnt want to be there...bleh

[swampthang]

Haha, no, no need to edit. And (thank god) I am from neither New Zealand nor a sheep farm.

I like New Zealand? I'm afraid I don't understand then.

[Rock Chalk]

.

[clintonius]

Haha, no, no need to edit. And (thank god) I am from neither New Zealand nor a sheep farm.

I like New Zealand? I'm afraid I don't understand then.

Excellent.

Also, I think I'm with the "Berkeley shouldn't be in the equation" group. I'd also like to see statistics from California offices regarding UT vs HLS placement. I don't doubt that there are plenty of UT grads in California firms, but, y'know, anecdotal evidence and whatnot.

[krj02004]

If he wants to practice in Texas or Cali... I see no reason to go to Harvard and assume all that debt. I lived in MA for a bit.... it's very expensive in Cambridge. Texas is a T15 school and will easily land you as good a paying job in Cali and for sure in TX. Austin has a better cost of living, arguably a better quality of life...you'll be going to school debt free.... I don't understand the debate here. If he wanted to practice on the East Coast, I can see Harvard entering the picture. But if not... he wants to assume $200k+ in debt just to say you went to "Harvard"?

When you are looking at starting salaries and then salary to debt ratio, it's going to favor Texas IMO. Is there a specific type of law he wants to practice where Harvard has a significant advantage over Texas?

You should not be giving advice. OP's friend: do not listen to this poster.

Why? Because I actually have experience in the legal field in Cali? I've dined with with MANY attorneys from biglaw firms in LA, gone to conventions and dinners... only met a couple of Harvard grads... mostly Texas, UCLA, Standford, and USC. THe most important thing is to makes sure your graduated top of your class. WIth zero debt graduating.... you have more job options to choose from as well. What if the OP changes his mind about biglaw employment?

If the OP for sure knows he wants to practice in Texas or Cali, and is not even thinking about the East Coast, I think the logical choice is to accept Texas at full-ride. Just because Harvard accepts you it doesn't mean in all cases it's the best or only place to go. Get your head outta your a**.

Like I said, having lived in MA for 5 years previously, Austin will have a higher quality of life because it's cheaper as well. Unless his parents are paying his way, if you live in Austin you can have a better apartment than a crummy, cramped, and old studio apartment in Cambridge. Then there is the commute factor if you choose to live farther out. I mean, if the OP's parents are paying for anything anyways, then I guess Harvard would make sense. That's my opinion having lived on both sides of the country.

sorry, i have to agree w/ A'nold here. Though you are right about QOL Austin being >>>> MA, Texas will NOT be the smart choice for a person wanting to go to CA (or out of state for that matter)...not anymore. Pre-ITE, yeah sure. ITE? sorry, TX grads cant even get jobs in TX biglaw firms. The woes of that tragedy emanate from their law campus. So while you know a lot of Texas grads in CA firms, this isnt the case any more. i would definitely not tell OP to rely on TX getting him into a CA firm in this economic environment.

full ride TX for a TX biglaw job though is...very tempting. tbh, i had the same choice, and i was 50/50. no, no i lied, i was 51/49. ITE, coming out of HYS you will still get a job, w/ a very good chance of a biglaw job -- esp. if you want to come back to TX like i do for firm work (talking to current HLS 2L's and the like). it is just the cream of the crop jobs that are tougher to get for even HLS students (i.e. some coveted NYC biglaw spots). that being said, no debt from TX is great, but so many are striking out...i just didnt want the added pressure of NEEDING to place top 1/3 or better to have a solid shot at TX biglaw.

imo, OP cant go wrong w/ either TX or HLS. he can go wrong w/ berkeley sticker though lol man it is so expensive now! and to be 'pigeonholed' to CA if he didnt want to be there...bleh

OK... I can see that point. TO be fair, the UT lawyers I know in LA are 40 yrs. +. Obviously the education at UT could be drastically different now. I just can't get over the full-ride though and the fact that the OP doesn't want to practice on the East Coast.

[FuManChusco]

Obvious choice is obvious. It's called HYS for a reason. I don't see a B or a T there.

[Dead Ringer]

I completly agree with everyone here, except that to get options in both states he needs a T6, are we forgetting that Berkeley is ranked 7? Again i vote harvard just as the majority are, i think hes leaning Berkeley. Hopefully i can show him this and get him thinking a little more clearly

I don't know if this holds with Berkeley, but T6 is definitely the shit for texas. Everyone I know at UChicago who wanted one got a texas firm job for 1L.

[Dead Ringer]

T14 degrees (especially those from the top 4) are generally seen as being fully transportable. You can work anywhere in the country with one. I say Harvard for sure, because it gives him so many more options and because, like you said, it's Harvard.

Here is some serious trolling by the way.

[swampthang]

UT, duh. Go for free and he wants to work there after grad? That's a no-brainer. Hook 'em!

[DoubleChecks]

I completly agree with everyone here, except that to get options in both states he needs a T6, are we forgetting that Berkeley is ranked 7? Again i vote harvard just as the majority are, i think hes leaning Berkeley. Hopefully i can show him this and get him thinking a little more clearly

I don't know if this holds with Berkeley, but T6 is definitely the shit for texas. Everyone I know at UChicago who wanted one got a texas firm job for 1L.

man this is awesome to hear. i mean, ive already been hearing things like this, but every little anecdote helps

[005618502]

Wow, so i took to long of a break from this chat. Well on the decision, i think berkeley is out, honestly i think it was there just because of the idea of working in California, which he has only visited twice, but i believe he is leaning heavly toward Harvard.

I think he likes the idea of going to the 2nd best school in the nation (would probably #1 if it would lessen its class size) and i think he knows that he will have a leg up in TX or CA with that degree.

From what im hearing from him sounds like he will be attending Harvard in the Fall, and i guess UT will be giving money to others. For what its worth, i said Harvard from the beginning, but i would also take Berkeley sticker over Full ride to UT. 4 years in Austin may be enough for me.

[DoubleChecks]

Wow, so i took to long of a break from this chat. Well on the decision, i think berkeley is out, honestly i think it was there just because of the idea of working in California, which he has only visited twice, but i believe he is leaning heavly toward Harvard.

I think he likes the idea of going to the 2nd best school in the nation (would probably #1 if it would lessen its class size) and i think he knows that he will have a leg up in TX or CA with that degree.

From what im hearing from him sounds like he will be attending Harvard in the Fall, and i guess UT will be giving money to others. For what its worth, i said Harvard from the beginning, but i would also take Berkeley sticker over Full ride to UT. 4 years in Austin may be enough for me.

your friend lives in Austin right now? going to HLS this upcoming fall? tell him to make an account on TLS and post in the In at Harvard thread. trying to get to know more HLS-bound Texans haha