DePaul Vs Chicago Kent Forum

[thinkbig]

Just talked to an associate at one of the bigger firms in Chicago. This person claimed that Loyola>Kent>>>DePaul.

This person advised me to go to Loyola or Kent if it ponied up more $$$.....and not to worry about DePaul.

I've heard that and the rankings back it up. But would you mind asking your associate his guess as to why there are more DePaul grads in the top 10 chicago firms than loyola grads and kent grads. Just for one example... Kirkland and Ellis, chicago's biggest firm... DePaul grads employed 27, Kent Grads 21, Loyala Grads 13.

Looking at one or two or even ten firms isn't terribly informative. Sure, top ten in Chicago = biglaw and mega salaries. But look at it realistically. Kent has more associates placed into the 100 largest firms in Chicago that any other law school.

Now THAT is a useful bit of info. source?

It is mentioned on page 94 of the viewbook, and Dean Krent also mentioned it at the admitted students reception tonight.

[Kobe_Teeth]

If you really want big law is retaking the LSAT and applying next cycle an option?

The big thing I don't like about taking a year off is that the job market for recent college grads, especially those with history degrees, is abysmal, worse than the job market for newly graduated law students that's for sure. So really it would feel like wasting time, and this may sound ridiculous, but graduating law school at 26 seems much better than 27 to me.

Well honestly, it does sound ridiculous. I graduated in 2009 with a sociology degree with seemingly over 9000 academic accolades. I haven't gotten one job offer. Not even part time. I am currently 26 and had a subpar cycle. However since I was not satisfied with my choice, I am going to retake and redo. If you have a stable source of income (or swallow your pride and live with your folks for a year) I advise you to enjoy your youth and take the time to do your cycle right: retake the LSAT, be a fee waiver whore and apply to tons of schools you would seriously consider attending (you could hit the bullseye), revamp that PS, and apply early among other things.

With that GPA...you should re-take. A 3.8 deserves better....good for you sticking to your guns...+1 to ya sir! (or ma'am!) DO IT!

[thinkbig]

Were you at the admitted students event tonight too?!?!

Dean Krent dropped that nugget of info tonight at an admitted students event. That's where I heard it anyway.

PS....there was free beer there!

Yep, I was there. I heard him mention that statistic but had already read it in the viewbook (2007 stat). BTW, free beer is always good.

[Kobe_Teeth]

I've heard that and the rankings back it up. But would you mind asking your associate his guess as to why there are more DePaul grads in the top 10 chicago firms than loyola grads and kent grads. Just for one example... Kirkland and Ellis, chicago's biggest firm... DePaul grads employed 27, Kent Grads 21, Loyala Grads 13.

Looking at one or two or even ten firms isn't terribly informative. Sure, top ten in Chicago = biglaw and mega salaries. But look at it realistically. Kent has more associates placed into the 100 largest firms in Chicago that any other law school.

Now THAT is a useful bit of info. source?

It is mentioned on page 94 of the viewbook, and Dean Krent also mentioned it at the admitted students reception tonight.

I always get weirded out when I'm in the same room as TLS'ers and I don't know it.

[thinkbig]

I always get weirded out when I'm in the same room as TLS'ers and I don't know it.

LOL, I know exactly what you mean. In that reception I found myself wondering who in the room was on TLS.

[JCougar]

Furthering my anecdotal evidence motif for the night, I also had a friend who went to DePaul and was making more money DJ'ing karaoke on the weekends. He just recently got a job as a public defender and "likes it."

I only know one person who went to DePaul and she never passed the bar.

Anecdotal, I know, but this gives me personal bias against them. Plus I went to IIT for grad school already. But despite my personal bias, Kent is still >>> DePaul.

[thinkbig]

I only know one person who went to DePaul and she never passed the bar.

Totally meaningless.

[unbrokenchain]

He's actually at a top 10 and said he doesn't know anyone from depaul and knows a lot more at loyola. Also said they didn't go to depaul this year for oci but did go to loyola (or went deeper into the class from loyola than depaul...not sure).

So....it could just be anecdotal evidence and the flaws that come with anecdotal evidence. Not sure. However, I do know that I hear time and time again that Loyola and Kent are a step above DePaul. If you look at the employment stats...it backs that up.

However, if you were Chicago born and raised and the "Ol Boys Club" network to go with it, DePaul might be your choice.

Furthering my anecdotal evidence motif for the night, I also had a friend who went to DePaul and was making more money DJ'ing karaoke on the weekends. He just recently got a job as a public defender and "likes it."

Damn that's some powerful anecdotal evidence right there. I'm from Lake Forest (eliminate any assumption you could make) so I don't think that would qualify me as born and raised Chicago. It's that boys club aspect however that keeps my interest in depaul, but you guys are doing a great job at switching me toward kent.

[Kobe_Teeth]

Unless you're already in that boys club you might want fuuuhhgeddaboutit....not easy to break in...

[thinkbig]

Unless you're already in that boys club you might want fuuuhhgeddaboutit....not easy to break in...

Maybe if your last name is Daley...

[unbrokenchain]

hahaha well I am italian.... but no, I have no plan on breaking into the boys club... and the more I think about it I feel like Kent might be the way to go... But doesn't all that Legal Writing sound like torture to anybody?

[unbrokenchain]

but once it goes down, it can never go back up

option b 12k a year, no conditions.

Not true. The award letter states that if you drop below a 3.25, but remain above a 3.0, the award drops down to $10k. If you bring it back up past 3.25 at the end of your second year, you get $20k again for your 3rd year. Let's say you got the following:
Year 1: $20k (automatically upon acceptance of option A), GPA 3.15
Year 2: $10k (due to GPA in Year 1), GPA 3.35
Year 3: $20k (due to GPA in Year 2), GPA hopefully high enough.

Compare the above hypothetical total of $50k to the alternative of $36k if you went with option B.

It's a gamble either way... but if the you who is making the decision of A vs. B is the same you who believes you will pull off a 3.25, then going with option A would be significantly in your favor.

Not true.

I went back and checked the letter. The part I have to sign specifically states... "However, I understand that once lost the full award amount cannot be regained."

[rsuelzer]

KENT.

[keg411]

I had exactly the same options. After visiting both schools, my sense was that overall, Kent students seemed a little more ambitious and polished.

As someone who went to the DePaul ASD, I'd say that's a pretty easy feat. There was something that struck me as really unpolished and naive of the DePaul students. They all wanted to do "International Human Rights" law.

I think if you're a do-gooder type who is just out of undergrad and aren't looking to do anything close to prestigious, DePaul is probably a fine choice (as long as you have the $$$ to pay for it). I did get into Kent later in the cycle, so I couldn't visit, but I also eliminated it as soon as I saw the price (even with a scholarship ).

OP - if you're going to re-take, do it in June. If your score goes up, hopefully you can get off the UIUC WL. If not, choose whichever school you are more comfortable at.

[moandersen]

I'm from Lake Forest (eliminate any assumption you could make) so I don't think that would qualify me as born and raised Chicago

Im glad you put in that qualifier about Lake Forest. Haha. Its pretty easy to make assumptions about one of the richest suburbs on the north shore. Did you go to LFA or LFHS? Sweet ass campus' if you ask me. Im probably one of the few (only?) city kids on this site though.

I applied to Depaul and Loyola, and not Kent (because its affiliation with ITT weirds me out). I got more money at Depaul, but the choice of going to Loyola was easy for me because lawyers I talked to seem to respect the school more. However I got into better schools and Im leaving chicago.

But if it was down to depaul and kent, I would follow whichever school gives more $

[thinkbig]

but once it goes down, it can never go back up

option b 12k a year, no conditions.

Not true. The award letter states that if you drop below a 3.25, but remain above a 3.0, the award drops down to $10k. If you bring it back up past 3.25 at the end of your second year, you get $20k again for your 3rd year. Let's say you got the following:
Year 1: $20k (automatically upon acceptance of option A), GPA 3.15
Year 2: $10k (due to GPA in Year 1), GPA 3.35
Year 3: $20k (due to GPA in Year 2), GPA hopefully high enough.

Compare the above hypothetical total of $50k to the alternative of $36k if you went with option B.

It's a gamble either way... but if the you who is making the decision of A vs. B is the same you who believes you will pull off a 3.25, then going with option A would be significantly in your favor.

Not true.

I went back and checked the letter. The part I have to sign specifically states... "However, I understand that once lost the full award amount cannot be regained."

Yeah, I reread that too and swallowed my words. Maybe the guaranteed $36k is better after all. I mean, if you drop below a 3.25 after your first year, the most you can get is $40k, and even then it's no guarantee.

[unbrokenchain]

I'm from Lake Forest (eliminate any assumption you could make) so I don't think that would qualify me as born and raised Chicago

Im glad you put in that qualifier about Lake Forest. Haha. Its pretty easy to make assumptions about one of the richest suburbs on the north shore. Did you go to LFA or LFHS? Sweet ass campus' if you ask me. Im probably one of the few (only?) city kids on this site though.

I applied to Depaul and Loyola, and not Kent (because its affiliation with ITT weirds me out). I got more money at Depaul, but the choice of going to Loyola was easy for me because lawyers I talked to seem to respect the school more. However I got into better schools and Im leaving chicago.

But if it was down to depaul and kent, I would follow whichever school gives more $

Lake Forest High School class of 05'. My mother was a teacher her whole life, and my dad retired as an assistant superintendent of district 67... so no millionaire here... I had to mention the assumptions because my whole life, I've told people I'm from Lake Forest and they look at me like I'm Richie Rich and it kills me because if everyone's going to assume I'm rich I'd at least like to BE rich!

edit to add: I also don't wear polo shirts, I have NEVER popped my collar and I don't like Dave Mathews Band or Jimmy Buffet, oh and I don't wear sunglasses with croakies and a college hat.


Anyway, honestly, as much as this thread has turned me toward Kent... the more I research the legal job market in Chicago, the more it feels like Loyola, Kent and DePaul are ALL really big gambles that you can only rely on for high quality employment if you're top 10% of your class

I will be retaking the LSAT in June but I didn't get waitlisted at UIUC I got straight up rejected. So I suppose if I do really well I could just apply to UIUC early decision but I then lose a year... well worth it if I get into UIUC but if I didn't, man would that feel stupid...