Illinois (UIUC) on the rise Forum

[XxSpyKEx]

But seriously, I am a firm believer in the idea that assuming a standard level of effort, your GPA goes up as you go down the rankings. And if I wanted Chicago Biglaw, I would much rather be top 1/4 at Illinois than median at GULC.

This is definitely not true. I transferred to a t10 this year from a t3 and my GPA went up as my effort went down, and 2 of my 3 classes last semester were 1L classes (that weren't required at my t3 during 1L). I honestly think making top 10% and being competitive for biglaw at UIUC would be tougher then making top 10% at Northwestern just given how much more fierce the competition has to be at UIUC (i.e. there is just so much bigger of a chance of busting because top 1/3 at NU would give you the same odds at top 10% at UIUC).

But there's no reason to think that way. Illinois delivers a great legal education, and during a time when there is a lot of question about the future of the 160K-type associate salary structure, the competitive scholarships offered by the admissions department offer a much less risky option.

I don't really know that much about how UIUC does scholarships, but isn't it standard everywhere that the bottom 50% of the entering class (in terms of UGPA/LSAT) pays for, in part or in whole, the top 50% of the class's education? ... So around half the class has no scholarship at all, and UIUC is hands down a rip off for a public state university:

Estimated Cost of Attendance 2009-2010

Living expenses are estimated for the person that will be attending the College of Law and the budget is based on a 9 month estimate. These figures have not been finalized due to pending approval from the Board of Trustees.




ILLINOIS RESIDENT


NON-RESIDENT

Tuition


33,000


40,000

Fees


3,425


3,425

Room and Board


11,512


11,512

Books and Supplies*


1,838


1,838

Other Expenses


2,898


2,898

TOTAL


52,693


59,673

--LinkRemoved--


$60K /year to attend UIUC? GTFO. I'd rather pay $60K /year to attend a t12.

[T14_Scholly]

Who gives a fuck about whether Illinois is 19 as opposed to 20, 21, or 25? You're retarded.

[flyingpanda]

Who gives a fuck about whether Illinois is 19 as opposed to 20, 21, or 25? You're retarded.

For once I agree with you.

[TCScrutinizer]

Who gives a fuck about whether Illinois is 19 as opposed to 20, 21, or 25? You're retarded.

Who gives a fuck if Harvard or Georgetown is better... they're both T14!

[SaintClarence27]

But seriously, I am a firm believer in the idea that assuming a standard level of effort, your GPA goes up as you go down the rankings. And if I wanted Chicago Biglaw, I would much rather be top 1/4 at Illinois than median at GULC.

This is definitely not true. I transferred to a t10 this year from a t3 and my GPA went up as my effort went down, and 2 of my 3 classes last semester were 1L classes (that weren't required at my t3 during 1L). I honestly think making top 10% and being competitive for biglaw at UIUC would be tougher then making top 10% at Northwestern just given how much more fierce the competition has to be at UIUC (i.e. there is just so much bigger of a chance of busting because top 1/3 at NU would give you the same odds at top 10% at UIUC).

But there's no reason to think that way. Illinois delivers a great legal education, and during a time when there is a lot of question about the future of the 160K-type associate salary structure, the competitive scholarships offered by the admissions department offer a much less risky option.

I don't really know that much about how UIUC does scholarships, but isn't it standard everywhere that the bottom 50% of the entering class (in terms of UGPA/LSAT) pays for, in part or in whole, the top 50% of the class's education? ... So around half the class has no scholarship at all, and UIUC is hands down a rip off for a public state university:

Estimated Cost of Attendance 2009-2010

Living expenses are estimated for the person that will be attending the College of Law and the budget is based on a 9 month estimate. These figures have not been finalized due to pending approval from the Board of Trustees.




ILLINOIS RESIDENT


NON-RESIDENT

Tuition


33,000


40,000

Fees


3,425


3,425

Room and Board


11,512


11,512

Books and Supplies*


1,838


1,838

Other Expenses


2,898


2,898

TOTAL


52,693


59,673

--LinkRemoved--


$60K /year to attend UIUC? GTFO. I'd rather pay $60K /year to attend a t12.

What t12 can you attend for 60K a year at sticker? Because as far as I can tell, you can't find one. Illinois is actually a pretty good deal - I'm ending up with in=state tuition, which you copied but didn't mention, so that would be 53K per year. I have some scholly money too, but to claim that Illinois Law is some kind of rip off by insinuating they charge just as much or more than better schools, well, they don't.

[itsmytime10]

In a school where 50% + of the students are residents of Illinois, doesnt it just make sense that they will want to work in Chicago after graduation. Does it really mean that the school does not have national reach? I highly doubt that.

[DerrickRose]

This is definitely not true. I transferred to a t10 this year from a t3 and my GPA went up as my effort went down, and 2 of my 3 classes last semester were 1L classes (that weren't required at my t3 during 1L). I honestly think making top 10% and being competitive for biglaw at UIUC would be tougher then making top 10% at Northwestern just given how much more fierce the competition has to be at UIUC (i.e. there is just so much bigger of a chance of busting because top 1/3 at NU would give you the same odds at top 10% at UIUC).

Logical Fallacy Alert 1: Since you transferred from a TTT to a T10 you obviously excelled to the point that any increase in GPA is just statistical noise. You're a really good law student, and you would be anywhere.

Logical Fallacy Alert 2: If you, as a transfer, are taking 1L classes with kids who are in their first semester of law school and don't understand how it works, that's not a fair fight.

Fact Error Alert: Illinois is not the least bit competitive in terms of atmosphere. I've been shocked by how much this is the case, people look at me funny when I make jokes about competing with people.

isn't it standard everywhere that the bottom 50% of the entering class (in terms of UGPA/LSAT) pays for, in part or in whole, the top 50% of the class's education?

Maybe its callous of me to say so, but that's their problem not mine. I'm not on these boards advocating people to go to Illinois at sticker, I would rather go to Loyola with a big scholarship if I were in that position, but for those who are looking at Cornell at sticker or WUSTL with a small scholarship, I think it makes more sense to take the fat sack of money from Illinois.

Time and time again you see someone who wants Midwest/Chicago looking at the fact that Illinois has offered them more than ND/WUSTL/Minnesota as a reason to think that Illinois is an inferior school. Not true, they're just more friendly with the cash, and you should take them up on their offer. If that means somebody else is overpaying, well, that's just capitalism.

UIUC is hands down a rip off for a public state university:

Estimated Cost of Attendance 2009-2010

59,673


$60K /year to attend UIUC? GTFO. I'd rather pay $60K /year to attend a t12.

First of all, Champaign is ridiculously cheap and I for one am coming in well below their estimate on living costs.

Secondly, to say that you'd rather pay full price at a T12 is a huge strawman. Northwestern is a better law school than Illinois. There is no doubting this. It dominates the same markets as Illinois and at no equal point in class rank will you be better off at Illinois. This is just common sense. But...

1. Assuming the same class rank is foolish since the caliber of students is higher at NW
2. Assuming they are the same price is almost universally untrue. If you're in at NW, you'll be looking at a much more affordable package at Illinois.

Taking Illinois over Northwestern at the same price is stupid. Taking Illinois at a much lower cost than Northwestern is, unless you are dead-set on Biglaw, pretty smart.

[sixburgher]

↑ Thanks for this, DRose

That spy post was awful

[jacobjo1]

The placement stats for the class of 2009 was sent out to all the Illinois admits for this cycle:



Class of 2009 Employment Statistics

Employment Rates

90% At Graduation Employment Rate

99% 9 Month Employment Rate


Type Of Employment

66% Private Practice

Of those in Private Practice:

51% In Firms of 500 or More Attorneys

20% In Firms of 250-500 Attorneys

14% In Firms of 100-250 Attorneys

11% Judicial Clerkships

16% Government/Public Interest

5% Business

2% Academic

Do you guys think this is embellished at all?

[romothesavior]

If I could strikethru a thread title, I would do it to this one.

But good post DR. Illinois is a great school and I very nearly went there. I have very positive feelings about UIUC and I wish their students all the best. And I agree with your point about students at Illinois being incredibly friendly and anti-competitive. I know every school says that, but I really felt it it at U of I.

[bk1]

If I could strikethru a thread title, I would do it to this one.

But good post DR. Illinois is a great school and I very nearly went there. I have very positive feelings about UIUC and I wish their students all the best. And I agree with your point about students at Illinois being incredibly friendly and anti-competitive. I know every school says that, but I really felt it it at U of I.

Change your 'tar back. You no longer look like the same person.

[Kilpatrick]

If I could strikethru a thread title, I would do it to this one.

But good post DR. Illinois is a great school and I very nearly went there. I have very positive feelings about UIUC and I wish their students all the best. And I agree with your point about students at Illinois being incredibly friendly and anti-competitive. I know every school says that, but I really felt it it at U of I.

Change your 'tar back. You no longer look like the same person.

I agree, that totally weirded me out.

[Kobe_Teeth]

Okay, so I am seriously considering going to UIUC next year and have spent a lot of time researching different schools. I have come to the conclusion that UIUC is on the rise and will slowly (but surely) continue to rise. I believe that within a few years UIUC could regain its T-20 status. Here is why:

-Past 2 years UIUC has increased from 28th to 23rd to 21st.
-UIUC has a new Dean, Bruce Smith, who seems to have a fire under his a$$ to increase the quality of the school
-UIUC has "wised up" and become a numbers whore (taking high LSAT splitters), and as such has increased its student numerical quality
-Access to Chicago market means UIUC biglaw placement 6th best public school
-UIUC has been aggressively handing out scholarships in recent years to attract high quality students, and will likely continue to do so

Finally (& this is the comment that I am hoping sparks a fierce debate) I believe that UIUC has the ability to displace George Washington & WUSTL to secure its T-20 position.

Do you agree or disagree? And more importantly WHY?

You don't think GW and WUSTL are doing the same things?
What about raising 7 spots denotes it will move ANY higher?
A fire under his ass? You're going to pick a school partly because the dean has a fire under his ass? What does that even mean? What is that fire even burning for, IF this fire even exists? Do you think its there to please a fucking magazine?
Chicago legal market has been hit notoriously bad. Worse than even NY, LA, and others.
WUSTL aggressively hands out scholly's too. AND how do you know they have handed out more than they have in recent years?

Every argument here is based on some rather dubious assumptions. If you want to go to UIUC, knock yourself out. Its a good school but don't act like its some t-14 or even t19 because its not and there's nothing to indicate that it will be.

[romothesavior]

If I could strikethru a thread title, I would do it to this one.

But good post DR. Illinois is a great school and I very nearly went there. I have very positive feelings about UIUC and I wish their students all the best. And I agree with your point about students at Illinois being incredibly friendly and anti-competitive. I know every school says that, but I really felt it it at U of I.

Change your 'tar back. You no longer look like the same person.

I agree, that totally weirded me out.

Dammit, seriously? I thought it was time for a change and I was excited about it.

[bk1]

Dammit, seriously? I thought it was time for a change and I was excited about it.

I'm not excited about it. Your 'tar = who you are. IF RON BURGUNDY SAYS....

[romothesavior]

Dammit, seriously? I thought it was time for a change and I was excited about it.

I'm not excited about it. Your 'tar = who you are. IF RON BURGUNDY SAYS....

Hmm... I'll consider a change. I'm gonna give it a few days and see how it goes. I do love the Ron Burgundy one though. I've used it for a year.

[creamedcats]

DerrickRose for poster of the year. You should be the Illinois brand ambassador.

[bk1]

Hmm... I'll consider a change. I'm gonna give it a few days and see how it goes. I do love the Ron Burgundy one though. I've used it for a year.

I liked it too. To be honest, people's names make it easier to tell who they are when perusing the forums. DF = that Nazi with a smiley face, OS = a panda (or at least she used to ), deadluke = a lion, DR = bulls, romo = ron burgundy, etc, etc.

A lot of the time I don't even remember people's usernames, but I remember what they've posted by their 'tar.

Then again maybe I'm just a lazy fuck who doesn't like to have to read and would rather just see pretty pictures.

[romothesavior]

Hmm... I'll consider a change. I'm gonna give it a few days and see how it goes. I do love the Ron Burgundy one though. I've used it for a year.

I liked it too. To be honest, people's names make it easier to tell who they are when perusing the forums. DF = that Nazi with a smiley face, OS = a panda (or at least she used to ), deadluke = a lion, DR = bulls, romo = ron burgundy, etc, etc.

A lot of the time I don't even remember people's usernames, but I remember what they've posted by their 'tar.

Then again maybe I'm just a lazy fuck who doesn't like to have to read and would rather just see pretty pictures.

No, you're absolutely right. The tar is much easier to relate to.

[SaintClarence27]

Hmm... I'll consider a change. I'm gonna give it a few days and see how it goes. I do love the Ron Burgundy one though. I've used it for a year.

I liked it too. To be honest, people's names make it easier to tell who they are when perusing the forums. DF = that Nazi with a smiley face, OS = a panda (or at least she used to ), deadluke = a lion, DR = bulls, romo = ron burgundy, etc, etc.

A lot of the time I don't even remember people's usernames, but I remember what they've posted by their 'tar.

Then again maybe I'm just a lazy fuck who doesn't like to have to read and would rather just see pretty pictures.

No, you're absolutely right. The tar is much easier to relate to.

I'm considering changing my tar.

[holydonkey]

I think it's fine as long as you stick to a theme. For example, different pictures of Ron Burgundy and/or Anchorman.

Perhaps: or

[crazyeddie]

Okay, so I am seriously considering going to UIUC next year and have spent a lot of time researching different schools. I have come to the conclusion that UIUC is on the rise and will slowly (but surely) continue to rise. I believe that within a few years UIUC could regain its T-20 status. Here is why:

-Past 2 years UIUC has increased from 28th to 23rd to 21st.
-UIUC has a new Dean, Bruce Smith, who seems to have a fire under his a$$ to increase the quality of the school
-UIUC has "wised up" and become a numbers whore (taking high LSAT splitters), and as such has increased its student numerical quality
-Access to Chicago market means UIUC biglaw placement 6th best public school
-UIUC has been aggressively handing out scholarships in recent years to attract high quality students, and will likely continue to do so

Finally (& this is the comment that I am hoping sparks a fierce debate) I believe that UIUC has the ability to displace George Washington & WUSTL to secure its T-20 position.

Do you agree or disagree? And more importantly WHY?

You don't think GW and WUSTL are doing the same things?
What about raising 7 spots denotes it will move ANY higher?
A fire under his ass? You're going to pick a school partly because the dean has a fire under his ass? What does that even mean? What is that fire even burning for, IF this fire even exists? Do you think its there to please a fucking magazine?
Chicago legal market has been hit notoriously bad. Worse than even NY, LA, and others.
WUSTL aggressively hands out scholly's too. AND how do you know they have handed out more than they have in recent years?

Every argument here is based on some rather dubious assumptions. If you want to go to UIUC, knock yourself out. Its a good school but don't act like its some t-14 or even t19 because its not and there's nothing to indicate that it will be.

First of all, it has been as high as 17 in the past. Second, WUSTL used to be as aggressive at handing out scholarships as Illinois is now, but that doesn't appear to be the case anymore. Third, Chicago was hit hard...but so was NY, LA & DC. I don't know what stats you are using to claim that Chicago was hit harder (but I would be interested to see them...unless you are just pulling sh!t out of your a$$).

As far as Dean Smith, I'm basing it on a face to face meeting that I had with him. He is a brand new Dean and he impressed me. I have no doubt that he will be focusing on ways to improve Illinois that won't translate into higher rankings...but he is also mindful of the rankings and I believe he will continue to focus on increasing Illinois rankings as well.

[SaintClarence27]

Okay, so I am seriously considering going to UIUC next year and have spent a lot of time researching different schools. I have come to the conclusion that UIUC is on the rise and will slowly (but surely) continue to rise. I believe that within a few years UIUC could regain its T-20 status. Here is why:

-Past 2 years UIUC has increased from 28th to 23rd to 21st.
-UIUC has a new Dean, Bruce Smith, who seems to have a fire under his a$$ to increase the quality of the school
-UIUC has "wised up" and become a numbers whore (taking high LSAT splitters), and as such has increased its student numerical quality
-Access to Chicago market means UIUC biglaw placement 6th best public school
-UIUC has been aggressively handing out scholarships in recent years to attract high quality students, and will likely continue to do so

Finally (& this is the comment that I am hoping sparks a fierce debate) I believe that UIUC has the ability to displace George Washington & WUSTL to secure its T-20 position.

Do you agree or disagree? And more importantly WHY?

You don't think GW and WUSTL are doing the same things?
What about raising 7 spots denotes it will move ANY higher?
A fire under his ass? You're going to pick a school partly because the dean has a fire under his ass? What does that even mean? What is that fire even burning for, IF this fire even exists? Do you think its there to please a fucking magazine?
Chicago legal market has been hit notoriously bad. Worse than even NY, LA, and others.
WUSTL aggressively hands out scholly's too. AND how do you know they have handed out more than they have in recent years?

Every argument here is based on some rather dubious assumptions. If you want to go to UIUC, knock yourself out. Its a good school but don't act like its some t-14 or even t19 because its not and there's nothing to indicate that it will be.

First of all, it has been as high as 17 in the past. Second, WUSTL used to be as aggressive at handing out scholarships as Illinois is now, but that doesn't appear to be the case anymore. Third, Chicago was hit hard...but so was NY, LA & DC. I don't know what stats you are using to claim that Chicago was hit harder (but I would be interested to see them...unless you are just pulling sh!t out of your a$$).

As far as Dean Smith, I'm basing it on a face to face meeting that I had with him. He is a brand new Dean and he impressed me. I have no doubt that he will be focusing on ways to improve Illinois that won't translate into higher rankings...but he is also mindful of the rankings and I believe he will continue to focus on increasing Illinois rankings as well.

He'd better focus on library square footage if he wants to move up in Cooley's rankings.