Is Harvard really this douchie? Forum

[$1.99]

yes most people who got into yale got into harvard but this doesn't apply to stanford

actually i find it funny that this forum is douchy enough to douche on a school like harvard

[Na_Swatch]

As a foreign friend in the LLM program at H once asked me: "Have you met any JDs who is not a complete tosser?"


IMO H kids are the most insecure breed. People who go to Y and S all got into H, but not everyone who goes to Harvard also got into Stanford and Yale. Put someone from Harvard in a room with a Yalie and the smell of insecurity becomes so thick, you can cut it.

What? I'm sure there are plenty of insecure people at all 3 of HYS. Mallard's humble H 1L thread was swarmed by Yale douches remember?

And just going on statistics, the school that the people are most likely to turn down out of HYS is Stanford with under 50% yield. Both Harvard and Yale have much higher yield rates.

[Tofu]

it's been my experience that when I've felt that most of the people around me were offputting, it was me. I don't say this to be facetious. it really was me. I tend to feel this way when I walk into an environment where I'm in the minority. like being the only URM in the class...every class. or coming into a school off the waitlist. for me, it was about needing more self-confidence.

refreshingly honest, though in OP's case, i actually believe he met a lot of stuck up ppl

not saying HLS is full of them, but im sure they certainly have their fair share -- guess OP was unfortunate enough to only meet the stuck up ones? lol

i'd say that all the top 14 schools have their fair share of stuck up people haha

[JOThompson]

I met a couple genuinely nice people and several arrogant ones at HLS. I don't think it's fair to generalize about the student body there based on a couple experiences though.

[APimpNamedSlickback]

Yes

dude, how much have i contributed to this opinion?

[ConMan345]

"Proof:"

(this is true, at least the knowing part)

I know douches at HLS;
I know douches at SLS;
I know douches at YLS;

therefore, I shouldn't go to any of them.

[quickquestionthanks]

Just came back from a visit that I had arranged with the admissions office at HLS and I cannot tell you how incredibly douchey/snobby/arrogant the students I met were. I sat in on a class and talked to a few people…they were very nice don’t get me wrong, but they are just HUGE snobs. You could just sense it from the way they talked, walked, everything. They were all like, “I go to Harvard, I’m the shit.” I mean, I expected a little arrogance (it is Harvard Law after all), but this just exceeded my expectations by a mile.

Huge rant, I know, but this was something that concerned me a bit because Harvard was by far my top choice before this visit, but now I’m having second thoughts….Did anyone else get this sense, especially people who went to the ASW?

go to Stanford

Stanford kids are just as bad.

[PDaddy]

it's been my experience that when I've felt that most of the people around me were offputting, it was me. I don't say this to be facetious. it really was me. I tend to feel this way when I walk into an environment where I'm in the minority. like being the only URM in the class...every class. or coming into a school off the waitlist. for me, it was about needing more self-confidence.

So URM's who feel uncomfortable in an environment are to blame for their own discomfort? Sorry Charlie but u walked into that one and I just had to pounce. Furthermore, you are obviously not a so-called URM, so how would you know what it's like being a URM or dealing with any environment in the skin of one?

Besides presenting the obvious questions, you appear to make some unwarranted assumptions. Are all URM's created and/or perceived equally? Are all "URM gender groups" (ex: Black male vs. Mexican Female) created and/or perceived equally? Don't perceptions affect experiences? And for the record, healthy confidence is what allows URM's to survive in a system that was not created with them in mind. We possess it. Our daily world is one designed to make us uncomfortable.

You stepped in it.

So as not to appear flame-ish, I will stay on topic. I do agree with the proposition that people sometimes must adjust to their environments. But the Harvard environment is a snobish one. Must one be a snob to survive it? I don't think that's necessarily so. But one must face and be prepared to deal with that reality.

[rayiner]

Law students are generally pretty douchey. I have a couple buddies who have become insufferable. And these are kids not even at T14 schools.

Attending law school seems to give some people an inflated sense of self-worth. I think this is most common among direct UG->LS students or kids who graduated college and didn't have a real career job prior to going to LS.

I am sure this is magnified by Harvard law. I bet they probably sniff their own farts.

+1. There are actually people who think law school is impressive. As if.

[PDaddy]

Just came back from a visit that I had arranged with the admissions office at HLS and I cannot tell you how incredibly douchey/snobby/arrogant the students I met were. I sat in on a class and talked to a few people…they were very nice don’t get me wrong, but they are just HUGE snobs. You could just sense it from the way they talked, walked, everything. They were all like, “I go to Harvard, I’m the shit.” I mean, I expected a little arrogance (it is Harvard Law after all), but this just exceeded my expectations by a mile.

Huge rant, I know, but this was something that concerned me a bit because Harvard was by far my top choice before this visit, but now I’m having second thoughts….Did anyone else get this sense, especially people who went to the ASW?

go to Stanford

Stanford kids are just as bad.

No way. The sun and overall environment, combined with that California laid-back culture, just seems to make the elitism a little easier to bear. So maybe it is there, but it isn't as noticable.

[quickquestionthanks]

go to Stanford

Stanford kids are just as bad.

No way. The sun and overall environment, combined with that California laid-back culture, just seems to make the elitism a little easier to bear. So maybe it is there, but it isn't as noticable.

Ok, maybe "just as" was a poor phrase. "Also douchey" would have been better, or "douchie" as the OP spells it.

Either way, it's gotta be close. I mean, people on the West Coast just act more polite and friendly in general, which makes Stanford snobbery all the more unbearable. It's one of the very few places you'll find it. (I'm of course referring to academic snobbery, not 'I eat organic food and monitor my carbon footprint' snobbery)

[voice of reason]

drifting off topic a bit -- idk about the law school specifically, but Stanford as a whole is amazingly happy with itself. The snobbery there is more focused on "we are wonderful" than "we are better than you," but it's thick.

[strawberryfanta]

im sry to hear this, but at the same time, i wonder if this will be my experience there as well; yet the thing that worries me the most is just northeasterners being mean -- im from the south and generally everyone is nice and polite down here...my friends' and my own interactions w/ northeners havent led to the same results haha

I worry about this too.... :S

[underachiever]

Law students are generally pretty douchey. I have a couple buddies who have become insufferable. And these are kids not even at T14 schools.

Attending law school seems to give some people an inflated sense of self-worth. I think this is most common among direct UG->LS students or kids who graduated college and didn't have a real career job prior to going to LS.

I am sure this is magnified by Harvard law. I bet they probably sniff their own farts.

+1. There are actually people who think law school is impressive. As if.

+1. I have visited law schools, usually via friends, and at every law school I have meet a LARGE group of douches. From Harvard (not to jump on them when there down in this thread) and the whole T14 to tier 4 regional schools in California, Florida and in the Midwest. I too think has to do with an "inflated sense of self-worth" and from people telling them they are all great, their whole lives. Also the lower the school's ranking, the more I generally feel the wealthy students act this way.

DISCLAIMER: It happens everywhere, Harvard is a great school and I probably would have attended if admitted....Good luck OP!

[Tofu]

+1. I have visited law schools, usually via friends, and at every law school I have meet a LARGE group of douches. From Harvard (not to jump on them when there down in this thread) and the whole T14 to tier 4 regional schools in California, Florida and in the Midwest. I too think has to do with an "inflated sense of self-worth" and from people telling them they are all great, their whole lives. Also the lower the school's ranking, the more I generally feel the wealthy students act this way.

DISCLAIMER: It happens everywhere, Harvard is a great school and I probably would have attended if admitted....Good luck OP!

what do you mean by the lower the school's ranking?

[thickfreakness]

im sry to hear this, but at the same time, i wonder if this will be my experience there as well; yet the thing that worries me the most is just northeasterners being mean -- im from the south and generally everyone is nice and polite down here...my friends' and my own interactions w/ northeners havent led to the same results haha

Having spent quite a bit of time in Boston through high school and undergrad, as a southerner, I can most assuredly tell you that your worries are very well-founded. Similar concerns are why the northernmost school to which I applied is UVA.

[unknownscholar]

it's been my experience that when I've felt that most of the people around me were offputting, it was me. I don't say this to be facetious. it really was me. I tend to feel this way when I walk into an environment where I'm in the minority. like being the only URM in the class...every class. or coming into a school off the waitlist. for me, it was about needing more self-confidence.

So URM's who feel uncomfortable in an environment are to blame for their own discomfort? Sorry Charlie but u walked into that one and I just had to pounce. Furthermore, you are obviously not a so-called URM, so how would you know what it's like being a URM or dealing with any environment in the skin of one?

Besides presenting the obvious questions, you appear to make some unwarranted assumptions. Are all URM's created and/or perceived equally? Are all "URM gender groups" (ex: Black male vs. Mexican Female) created and/or perceived equally? Don't perceptions affect experiences? And for the record, healthy confidence is what allows URM's to survive in a system that was not created with them in mind. We possess it. Our daily world is one designed to make us uncomfortable.

You stepped in it.

So as not to appear flame-ish, I will stay on topic. I do agree with the proposition that people sometimes must adjust to their environments. But the Harvard environment is a snobish one. Must one be a snob to survive it? I don't think that's necessarily so. But one must face and be prepared to deal with that reality.

lol...wtf?? I'm a black female. I've attended roman catholic schools my entire life (85+% non-minority), But that's besides the point. You underlined the wrong section. "It was me....It really was me." I'm not speaking about all URMs or all waitlisted applicants (to any program), etc. I speak on my behalf. I felt insecure about those circumstances, without regard to how comfortable or uncomfortable someone actually tried to make me feel. And I felt this way because of the perceptions you've mentioned. And because of some of my own preconceptions. I'm not sure how most people perceived me. I was so into myself, that I hadn't taken too much time to give anyone a real opportunity to get to know me in order to fully inform a perception. So whatever opinions they had about me before meeting me, were quite possibly more generous than I ultimately deserved.

We possess it? And because I have not been too confident, that necessarily means I'm not a minority? And it's me that's making unwarranted assumptions? lol. okay.

Yes, I've stepped into it, but I'm not sure what IT is yet. I'm having a terrible time trying to figure out where all these generalizations came from. Maybe I wasn't explicit enough in providing examples. those were personal experiences.

/sorry for any hijacking.

[dp73816]

I visited Harvard in January, just for the hell of it - I was in Boston, with not much else to do. I played up my own douchiness to fit in - borrowed my girlfriend's glasses, spoke with an English accent etc. But besides me acting like a fool, I noticed that it wasnt too bad, as compared to some other schools in town (not going to name names...). The students seemed to know their place (at the top) and were content with it, while others seemed to feel the need to profess their viability as compared to "big brother" in Cambridge.

[vexion]

I visited Harvard in January, just for the hell of it - I was in Boston, with not much else to do. I played up my own douchiness to fit in - borrowed my girlfriend's glasses, spoke with an English accent etc. But besides me acting like a fool, I noticed that it wasnt too bad, as compared to some other schools in town (not going to name names...). The students seemed to know their place (at the top) and were content with it, while others seemed to feel the need to profess their viability as compared to "big brother" in Cambridge.

lolwut

[thickfreakness]

I visited Harvard in January, just for the hell of it - I was in Boston, with not much else to do. I played up my own douchiness to fit in - borrowed my girlfriend's glasses, spoke with an English accent etc. But besides me acting like a fool, I noticed that it wasnt too bad, as compared to some other schools in town (not going to name names...). The students seemed to know their place (at the top) and were content with it, while others seemed to feel the need to profess their viability as compared to "big brother" in Cambridge.

lolwut

iknoright? I think he's mistaking Harvard for NYU. Girlie glasses (and pants) and fake accents are crucial to being a good hipster.

[pjo]

im sry to hear this, but at the same time, i wonder if this will be my experience there as well; yet the thing that worries me the most is just northeasterners being mean -- im from the south and generally everyone is nice and polite down here...my friends' and my own interactions w/ northeners havent led to the same results haha

apparently you've never been to University of Richmond undergrad. Same way, they were nice to me but horribly arrogant. (FWIW I heard the law school isn't like that for anyone who is interested in the school)

[Borhas]

Just came back from a visit that I had arranged with the admissions office at HLS and I cannot tell you how incredibly douchey/snobby/arrogant the students I met were. I sat in on a class and talked to a few people…they were very nice don’t get me wrong, but they are just HUGE snobs. You could just sense it from the way they talked, walked, everything. They were all like, “I go to Harvard, I’m the shit.” I mean, I expected a little arrogance (it is Harvard Law after all), but this just exceeded my expectations by a mile.

Huge rant, I know, but this was something that concerned me a bit because Harvard was by far my top choice before this visit, but now I’m having second thoughts….Did anyone else get this sense, especially people who went to the ASW?

go to Stanford

Stanford kids are just as bad.

No way. The sun and overall environment, combined with that California laid-back culture, just seems to make the elitism a little easier to bear. So maybe it is there, but it isn't as noticable.

they don't call it SYH for nothing

im sry to hear this, but at the same time, i wonder if this will be my experience there as well; yet the thing that worries me the most is just northeasterners being mean -- im from the south and generally everyone is nice and polite down here...my friends' and my own interactions w/ northeners havent led to the same results haha

apparently you've never been to University of Richmond undergrad. Same way, they were nice to me but horribly arrogant. (FWIW I heard the law school isn't like that for anyone who is interested in the school)

lol this is true... but those are southern-money-douches... quiet a different breed all together... even worse than U.Va

[dp73816]

I visited Harvard in January, just for the hell of it - I was in Boston, with not much else to do. I played up my own douchiness to fit in - borrowed my girlfriend's glasses, spoke with an English accent etc. But besides me acting like a fool, I noticed that it wasnt too bad, as compared to some other schools in town (not going to name names...). The students seemed to know their place (at the top) and were content with it, while others seemed to feel the need to profess their viability as compared to "big brother" in Cambridge.

lolwut

iknoright? I think he's mistaking Harvard for NYU. Girlie glasses (and pants) and fake accents are crucial to being a good hipster.

Haha...that may be true...but what the hell, it was a lot of fun. They loved me, until they saw my LSAT score. Then no British accent in the world would've save me...

[englawyer]

re: HLS vs YLS douche-level, i would actually think its higher at YLS. I got a vibe that HLS does actually want to train lawyers (great clinics, negotiation program, etc) as opposed to legal academics. I also think HLS has more people that are going into law because its a good job that pays quite a bit as opposed to some other "higher calling", which I find refreshing.

I agree with the inflated sense of worth; come on people, all we did is get a high LSAT score and nerd it up in college. we aren't that special

[Borhas]

re: HLS vs YLS douche-level, i would actually think its higher at YLS. I got a vibe that HLS does actually want to train lawyers (great clinics, negotiation program, etc) as opposed to legal academics. I also think HLS has more people that are going into law because its a good job that pays quite a bit as opposed to some other "higher calling", which I find refreshing.

I agree with the inflated sense of worth; come on people, all we did is get a high LSAT score and nerd it up in college. we aren't that special

too easy