Help!! Best for Getting a Job Forum

[tintin]

i voted for uci, veritas, for reasons pretty much covered by those before me

[General Tso]

arguments for USD?

USD is only good if you want a SoCal option that is more established than UCI. They are the same price. I do think UCI is probably your best bet in this case because they school is going to be in overdrive to make sure the first two classes not only get jobs, but get good jobs. They have a lot riding on UCI's success. So even if there is a drop-off in the future, it's not going to effect you.

I would totally dismiss ... UCD (NorCal and no cheaper than UCI/USD). I would reconsider BU if are willing to forget about SoCal.

I agree with the first point...there is no real reason to choose USD over UCI given the cost is similar. Employers will know that UCI's initial classes had T20-caliber numbers, and ultimately UCI will surely surpass USD in USNWR.

I disagree with the idea that you should totally dismiss UCD. Sure the location is not ideal but something like 30% of UCD students find work in SoCal. I still think UCI is probably the better choice but for me it is a pretty close call.

[Veritas]

Thanks for your input everyone. This decision making is tough (but a privilege)

I'm hoping to hear from ND soon (re money)

[Veritas]

arguments for USD?

USD is only good if you want a SoCal option that is more established than UCI. They are the same price. I do think UCI is probably your best bet in this case because they school is going to be in overdrive to make sure the first two classes not only get jobs, but get good jobs. They have a lot riding on UCI's success. So even if there is a drop-off in the future, it's not going to effect you.

I would totally dismiss ... UCD (NorCal and no cheaper than UCI/USD). I would reconsider BU if are willing to forget about SoCal.

I agree with the first point...there is no real reason to choose USD over UCI given the cost is similar. Employers will know that UCI's initial classes had T20-caliber numbers, and ultimately UCI will surely surpass USD in USNWR.

I disagree with the idea that you should totally dismiss UCD. Sure the location is not ideal but something like 30% of UCD students find work in SoCal. I still think UCI is probably the better choice but for me it is a pretty close call.

UCD does place decently well in Southern California. The thing is, I'm much more interesting in San Diego than I am in the rest of So Cal. I think USD would serve me better in that regard, no?

[BigLawyer]

I would only look at law schools in a 200 mile radius of San Diego. Get rid of all those other schools. They will not help you in San Diego.

[General Tso]

UCD does place decently well in Southern California. The thing is, I'm much more interesting in San Diego than I am in the rest of So Cal. I think USD would serve me better in that regard, no?

USD would serve you ONLY to work in SD.
http://californiabar.globl.org/report.p ... 0&g=2&pp=5

Looks like about 1/2 of USD grads work in SD, which is a small legal market with fewer market paying jobs than SF or LA. Sure USD might serve your goals better than UCD if you favor location over salary/job prospects, but I don't see any scenario in which it serves your goals better than UCI. You are asking the right questions though...you need to make sure UCI will help you take whatever career path you decide on. If you are satisfied that you can obtain private sector work out of UCI, I think this should be an easy choice.

[Veritas]

UCD does place decently well in Southern California. The thing is, I'm much more interesting in San Diego than I am in the rest of So Cal. I think USD would serve me better in that regard, no?

USD would serve you ONLY to work in SD.
http://californiabar.globl.org/report.p ... 0&g=2&pp=5

Looks like about 1/2 of USD grads work in SD, which is a small legal market with fewer market paying jobs than SF or LA. Sure USD might serve your goals better than UCD if you favor location over salary/job prospects, but I don't see any scenario in which it serves your goals better than UCI. You are asking the right questions though...you need to make sure UCI will help you take whatever career path you decide on. If you are satisfied that you can obtain private sector work out of UCI, I think this should be an easy choice.

^^^ it's looking that way. I need to think of some good questions to ask and really flush out these options.

debt = scary

[20160810]

An aaaaawful lot of that UCI Kool-Aid being drunk ITT. I'm not going to comment on that one way or another, but Ver, if I was you, I'd take the money at IUB and not look back. In this economy, you need to rely on personal connections and networking skills to get a job in CA coming out of Davis or Hastings (fuhgeddabout Irvine). Which is what you need to do coming from IUB. So you're at a disadvantage, but not a huge one. You can make this happen.

[HungryHippo]

edited:

Irvine (up and coming law school, weather)

IUB (no debt, and 60 million in scholarship money and for faculty hires, its in bloomington)

I voted for IUB~~

[Veritas]

IUB is definitely still in mind. I was looking at a loan calculator last night, and even with just IUB (and UG debt) the monthly payments look scary.

I'm visiting both UCI and IUB next week, hoping to find more clarity on this decision.

[lawduder]

IUB

[danquayle]

IUB is definitely still in mind. I was looking at a loan calculator last night, and even with just IUB (and UG debt) the monthly payments look scary.

I'm visiting both UCI and IUB next week, hoping to find more clarity on this decision.

For what its worth, the one exception to the "go where you want to work" rule of law school is if you want to work where you're from and/or where you have significant connections. I went to Indiana, and I don't know I single person who wanted to return home and didn't. I know a ton of people who got good jobs in places like Utah, Memphis, LA, NY and Florida... because they were already from those markets and could sell those connections. It's a radically different story if you come to Indiana from Pittsburgh and try to place into San Diego.

GW and BU I'd scratch off, because while they do great in the east, they're not going to get your much further on the West Coast than an IU degree, not with the premium you'd be paying. You're talking about three degrees that will all be out of their target market. I'd only consider Notre Dame because its got alumni spread throughout the country. Its the rare regional school with a brand that's marketable outside of its region. So, of the out of state schools, I'd only consider ND (more marketable) and IU (less debt). But I'm doubting even ND would be worth the added debt you'd be taking in.

UCI and USD make sense in that you're going to be able to network more readily in your target market. However, in my opinion, this is more than offset by the debt you'd be taking in. In observing my law grad friends at a variety schools, the most limiting thing in their job searches was their large debt and the necessity to begin large payments immediately - not prestige. Sure, a Notre Dame degree will open more doors for you than an Indiana degree, but if you take in huge debt for that degree, you're going to have to step through the first door. Without debt, you can bide your time, network or work your way up somewhere. I really can't stress enough how limiting huge debt makes your job hunt.

If you weren't from SoCal, I'd say go to a school in that market. But since you're there and you'll still be able to use your connections to market, I'd say you should be looking to minimize debt.

Also, UCI being such a new school would make me nervous. Job hunting quite often means just looking for friendly alumni with connections.

[danquayle]

Nothing truly groundbreaking, but here are my thoughts:

Unless you get into UCLA, my vote is UCI. I know a lot of lawyers in OC and everyone is pretty excited about the school. I think if you want to stay in Southern California long-term, you should go to school there. I don't think this notion gets enough play on TLS, even for great schools like GW and BU. From what I have seen, hiring gets pretty regional even towards the lower end of the T14, especially ITE. This may not be as true in less sought-after markets, but a lot of people try to make it to CA and I think being here during school and demonstrating your commitment to the area will only help.

I actually think its less important long term. Once you get your first job, your job prospects for your next job will be entirely dependent on how well you did in your first job and the network, reputation and skills you built there. There are some schools where it would pay to to be part of an exclusive club for your entire career. UCLA and USC are that way for Southern California, and UCI might well be. But not yet.

Again... this all really comes down to the debt load for me. UCLA and USC (and Stanford/Berkeley) would be well worth the 6 figure debt for someone looking to work in SoCal. I'm not sure any of the others are.

[lawduder]

IUB has more alumni in CA than UCI see what I did there?

[Veritas]

IUB has more alumni in CA than UCI see what I did there?

duder....

IUB is definitely still in mind. I was looking at a loan calculator last night, and even with just IUB (and UG debt) the monthly payments look scary.

I'm visiting both UCI and IUB next week, hoping to find more clarity on this decision.

For what its worth, the one exception to the "go where you want to work" rule of law school is if you want to work where you're from and/or where you have significant connections. I went to Indiana, and I don't know I single person who wanted to return home and didn't. I know a ton of people who got good jobs in places like Utah, Memphis, LA, NY and Florida... because they were already from those markets and could sell those connections. It's a radically different story if you come to Indiana from Pittsburgh and try to place into San Diego.

GW and BU I'd scratch off, because while they do great in the east, they're not going to get your much further on the West Coast than an IU degree, not with the premium you'd be paying. You're talking about three degrees that will all be out of their target market. I'd only consider Notre Dame because its got alumni spread throughout the country. Its the rare regional school with a brand that's marketable outside of its region. So, of the out of state schools, I'd only consider ND (more marketable) and IU (less debt). But I'm doubting even ND would be worth the added debt you'd be taking in.

UCI and USD make sense in that you're going to be able to network more readily in your target market. However, in my opinion, this is more than offset by the debt you'd be taking in. In observing my law grad friends at a variety schools, the most limiting thing in their job searches was their large debt and the necessity to begin large payments immediately - not prestige. Sure, a Notre Dame degree will open more doors for you than an Indiana degree, but if you take in huge debt for that degree, you're going to have to step through the first door. Without debt, you can bide your time, network or work your way up somewhere. I really can't stress enough how limiting huge debt makes your job hunt.

If you weren't from SoCal, I'd say go to a school in that market. But since you're there and you'll still be able to use your connections to market, I'd say you should be looking to minimize debt.

Also, UCI being such a new school would make me nervous. Job hunting quite often means just looking for friendly alumni with connections.

I'm definitely hearing you and I'm also getting that same vibe from some other IUB students (that most people are able to return to their home market). At what price does ND become the better option?

[danquayle]

I'm definitely hearing you and I'm also getting that same vibe from some other IUB students (that most people are able to return to their home market). At what price does ND become the better option?

Well, this is completely arbitrary, but I'd pay a $50k premium for Notre Dame, which is essentially a year's net income if you're forced to settle for a mid-law job.

[mbv]

I've read on various TLS forums that USD seems to be competitive when it comes to negotiating scholarship dollars. Sent them an email showing them UCI offer and anything else you see as competitive.

USD, i hear, places really well in San Diego, even at big firms. BUT if they came out to the same price, I'd still go to UCI.

[Veritas]

I've read on various TLS forums that USD seems to be competitive when it comes to negotiating scholarship dollars. Sent them an email showing them UCI offer and anything else you see as competitive.

USD, i hear, places really well in San Diego, even at big firms. BUT if they came out to the same price, I'd still go to UCI.

I've tried negotiating with USD, to no avail.

[superflush]

I know I would like to work in So Cal and I want a school that gives me (1) access to this market and (2) access to a wide range of jobs. Which one is the best bet?

I could do a stint in a different part of the country and bring the degree back, that would be cool. Still waiting on UCLA, which would be a no brainer. More interested in hearing thoughts than the vote.

3yr totals (tuition and living expenses minus scholarships):

Let's see

BU: $120k
ND: $165k (negotiating aid)
- I would feel comfortable with the job prospects from both BU & ND. They both have good national prospects and will have a decent amount of CA firms. There is obviously a big difference in the lifestyle between BU & ND.

USD: $104k - I would only consider USD if you know that you never want to leave San Diego.

UCI: $117k - Do you have a realistic idea of how they are going to place with jobs?
Also, do you want to spend 3 years in Irvine?

IUB: $39k - yea, you have great money here, but I have yet to be convinced that IU have great placement. They don't have many CA firms at OCI. They have traditionally had 3 off-campus interviewing programs at Chicago, Louisville, & DC . The Chicago & DC programs were cancelled for this year. What worries me even more than that is that many of the students and admissions people didn't even know this.

W&L: $80k - This is pretty good money. They may give you better CA prospects than IU, but I don't know why you'd take them over BU or ND. Especially when BU would only cost a tad more.

GW: $210 (still waiting on aid) - See what happens with money here. If money is an issue, then I don't see why you'd take GW over BU or ND.

[strike]UCD: $122k[/strike]

Also, do you know if you want to be in SD or LA ... or is either one preferred?

[Big Dog]

Also, UCI being such a new school would make me nervous. Job hunting quite often means just looking for friendly alumni with connections.

Job hunting also means recs/phone calls from profs and interest from local employers. I know of several Senior Partners at OC law firms who have already guaranteed UCI that they will hire their grads. Every year. (I would guess that IU doesn't have the same contact in SoCal.) Some of those OC firms also have offices in SD.

[Mattalones]

My XGF tried to do the same thing from Cornell and she did pretty well ... no bites. She is stuck in NY, and the same thing happened to a lot of her classmates trying to do the same thing who also did above median. One thing that she said to consider (cuz I am trying to get into SD legal market too) is which state I have a bar in if I decide to transfer to CA. NY is the most prestigious, so it would help. Also only go to schools that place well in firms who have locations in SD b/c it will be easier to transfer in a couple years.

I say this b/c going to school outside the state will probably mean working outside the state for a while too.

[Veritas]

I know I would like to work in So Cal and I want a school that gives me (1) access to this market and (2) access to a wide range of jobs. Which one is the best bet?

I could do a stint in a different part of the country and bring the degree back, that would be cool. Still waiting on UCLA, which would be a no brainer. More interested in hearing thoughts than the vote.

3yr totals (tuition and living expenses minus scholarships):

Let's see

BU: $120k
ND: $165k (negotiating aid)
- I would feel comfortable with the job prospects from both BU & ND. They both have good national prospects and will have a decent amount of CA firms. There is obviously a big difference in the lifestyle between BU & ND.

USD: $104k - I would only consider USD if you know that you never want to leave San Diego.

UCI: $117k - Do you have a realistic idea of how they are going to place with jobs?
Also, do you want to spend 3 years in Irvine?

IUB: $39k - yea, you have great money here, but I have yet to be convinced that IU have great placement. They don't have many CA firms at OCI. They have traditionally had 3 off-campus interviewing programs at Chicago, Louisville, & DC . The Chicago & DC programs were cancelled for this year. What worries me even more than that is that many of the students and admissions people didn't even know this.

W&L: $80k - This is pretty good money. They may give you better CA prospects than IU, but I don't know why you'd take them over BU or ND. Especially when BU would only cost a tad more.

GW: $210 (still waiting on aid) - See what happens with money here. If money is an issue, then I don't see why you'd take GW over BU or ND.

[strike]UCD: $122k[/strike]

Also, do you know if you want to be in SD or LA ... or is either one preferred?

Thanks for your input! I would prefer San Diego, but I think I'm more open to different markets after considering my options. I really hope ND comes through with a good offer. BU is definitely in the back of my mind....

[Helmholtz]

You never did get this whole poll-making thing down, V.

[Veritas]

You never did get this whole poll-making thing down, V.

<3 thanks helm (any input?!)

[Borhas]

veritas, quit being a pussy

make a decision