Notre Dame v UIUC v Waitlist at a T14? Forum

[clint4law]

what a crappy cycle....now you can add michigan in the waitlist section.

[clint4law]

So a little background about me:
LSAT: 168
GPA: 3.70
3 years work experience

I hope to practice in Chicago and thus far my cycle has gone like this:
In: UIUC, Indiana, Notre Dame, Minnesota, Washington (St. Louis)
Waitlist: Columbia, Cornell. Virginia, and Penn
Still Waiting on: Northwestern and Michigan

I'd love to go to Columbia or Penn but is it worth waiting on them? I have my heart now set on ND and both Columbia and Penn stated I won't find out anything until mid-May (past the deposit deadline for ND).

would it be worth retaking LSAT in June if I can pull a 170+? Would the improved score increase my chances of getting off Columbia, Penn, and Michigan's WL?

[jcunni5]

So a little background about me:
LSAT: 168
GPA: 3.70
3 years work experience

I hope to practice in Chicago and thus far my cycle has gone like this:
In: UIUC, Indiana, Notre Dame, Minnesota, Washington (St. Louis)
Waitlist: Columbia, Cornell. Virginia, and Penn
Still Waiting on: Northwestern and Michigan

I'd love to go to Columbia or Penn but is it worth waiting on them? I have my heart now set on ND and both Columbia and Penn stated I won't find out anything until mid-May (past the deposit deadline for ND).

would it be worth retaking LSAT in June if I can pull a 170+? Would the improved score increase my chances of getting off Columbia, Penn, and Michigan's WL?

absolutely you have good numbers but you're not getting into any t14 save cornell with those numbers b/c they are basically below all the t14's medians except maybe for gpa, you pull 170 you will have UM UVA NU and prolly penn too fairly easily next cycle i'd probably use an ED too since money isn't an option

[clint4law]

So a little background about me:
LSAT: 168
GPA: 3.70
3 years work experience

I hope to practice in Chicago and thus far my cycle has gone like this:
In: UIUC, Indiana, Notre Dame, Minnesota, Washington (St. Louis)
Waitlist: Columbia, Cornell. Virginia, and Penn
Still Waiting on: Northwestern and Michigan

I'd love to go to Columbia or Penn but is it worth waiting on them? I have my heart now set on ND and both Columbia and Penn stated I won't find out anything until mid-May (past the deposit deadline for ND).

would it be worth retaking LSAT in June if I can pull a 170+? Would the improved score increase my chances of getting off Columbia, Penn, and Michigan's WL?

absolutely you have good numbers but you're not getting into any t14 save cornell with those numbers b/c they are basically below all the t14's medians except maybe for gpa, you pull 170 you will have UM UVA NU and prolly penn too fairly easily next cycle i'd probably use an ED too since money isn't an option

I'd only retake to get off the waitlist for this cycle. Applying next year is not an option for me. I'm more than happy attending ND.....but when Columbia is knocking it makes the decision very difficult.

[im_blue]

So a little background about me:
LSAT: 168
GPA: 3.70
3 years work experience

I hope to practice in Chicago and thus far my cycle has gone like this:
In: UIUC, Indiana, Notre Dame, Minnesota, Washington (St. Louis)
Waitlist: Columbia, Cornell. Virginia, and Penn
Still Waiting on: Northwestern and Michigan

I'd love to go to Columbia or Penn but is it worth waiting on them? I have my heart now set on ND and both Columbia and Penn stated I won't find out anything until mid-May (past the deposit deadline for ND).

would it be worth retaking LSAT in June if I can pull a 170+? Would the improved score increase my chances of getting off Columbia, Penn, and Michigan's WL?

absolutely you have good numbers but you're not getting into any t14 save cornell with those numbers b/c they are basically below all the t14's medians except maybe for gpa, you pull 170 you will have UM UVA NU and prolly penn too fairly easily next cycle i'd probably use an ED too since money isn't an option

+1. Since both numbers are below median, OP has no chance of getting off any waitlists except for Cornell, unless he retakes and gets a 170+.

[A'nold]

Hello? Is anyone going to answer OP's question?

IMHO I would say take the June LSAT. There are MANY stories (and you should probably ask the 1 and 2L's in the law school forum) of people being WL'ed and then nailing the June test and getting off of waitlists.

[14yearplan]

Wash U

Wash U is as close to T14 you can get and ND and U of I are not in the same league as Wash U--Chicago or otherwise...and this is coming from a Chicagoan and big ND fan. Wash U is the easy choice without any scholarship offers and/or additional info.

[Xiaolong]

So a little background about me:
LSAT: 168
GPA: 3.70
3 years work experience

I hope to practice in Chicago and thus far my cycle has gone like this:
In: UIUC, Indiana, Notre Dame, Minnesota, Washington (St. Louis)
Waitlist: Columbia, Cornell. Virginia, and Penn
Still Waiting on: Northwestern and Michigan

I'd love to go to Columbia or Penn but is it worth waiting on them? I have my heart now set on ND and both Columbia and Penn stated I won't find out anything until mid-May (past the deposit deadline for ND).

would it be worth retaking LSAT in June if I can pull a 170+? Would the improved score increase my chances of getting off Columbia, Penn, and Michigan's WL?

absolutely you have good numbers but you're not getting into any t14 save cornell with those numbers b/c they are basically below all the t14's medians except maybe for gpa, you pull 170 you will have UM UVA NU and prolly penn too fairly easily next cycle i'd probably use an ED too since money isn't an option

I'd only retake to get off the waitlist for this cycle. Applying next year is not an option for me. I'm more than happy attending ND.....but when Columbia is knocking it makes the decision very difficult.

Something seems awfully strange about your cycle. True, your numbers are not auto-admit at any T14, but it is not unheard of that people with your numbers get into all of the schools you applied to, save for Columbia maybe. A 168/3.7 is close to auto admit at Cornell if you check LSN. Now add to that your success as a business owner, that should have been an impressive enough soft to get you into most of the schools you applied to. Especially NW should be all over you considering how much they value work experience.

What went wrong? Bad rec? Arrongant PS?

[clint4law]

Hello? Is anyone going to answer OP's question?

IMHO I would say take the June LSAT. There are MANY stories (and you should probably ask the 1 and 2L's in the law school forum) of people being WL'ed and then nailing the June test and getting off of waitlists.

Thanks! I guess this is the answer I did not want to hear but if I want a shot at those schools I should probably retake. I forgot to mention that my PT average was a 171 so I am definitely capable of breaking 170.

[clint4law]

bump

[clint4law]

bump

[ppa840]

you should retake the LSAT this june.

[clint4law]

So a little background about me:
LSAT: 168
GPA: 3.70
3 years work experience

I hope to practice in Chicago and thus far my cycle has gone like this:
In: UIUC, Indiana, Notre Dame, Minnesota, Washington (St. Louis)
Waitlist: Columbia, Cornell. Virginia, and Penn
Still Waiting on: Northwestern and Michigan

I'd love to go to Columbia or Penn but is it worth waiting on them? I have my heart now set on ND and both Columbia and Penn stated I won't find out anything until mid-May (past the deposit deadline for ND).

schollys?

Update
In: Cornell
Rejected: Northwestern (really hurt)
Withdrew: Indiana, Minnesota

[romothesavior]

Wash U

Wash U is as close to T14 you can get and ND and U of I are not in the same league as Wash U--Chicago or otherwise...and this is coming from a Chicagoan and big ND fan. Wash U is the easy choice without any scholarship offers and/or additional info.

I really don't know if I agree with this, and I'm going to WUSTL next fall. Both schools see Chicago as their main feeder city, but I still think UIUC has a slight edge. I definitely don't think it is an "easy choice" between the two.

[clint4law]

Wash U

Wash U is as close to T14 you can get and ND and U of I are not in the same league as Wash U--Chicago or otherwise...and this is coming from a Chicagoan and big ND fan. Wash U is the easy choice without any scholarship offers and/or additional info.

I really don't know if I agree with this, and I'm going to WUSTL next fall. Both schools see Chicago as their main feeder city, but I still think UIUC has a slight edge. I definitely don't think it is an "easy choice" between the two.

I agree......ND's alumni base is unbelievable and priceless.

[notme]

I can't believe someone said that ND is not in the same league as WUSTL. That's absurd. I threw my WUSTL acceptance and larger scholarship aside when I got ND. I eventually went elsewhere, but I don't think there is another school below USC that compares to ND. WUSTL is a good school, it's just not of the same caliber as ND.

[gochrisgo]

.

[09042014]

I can't believe someone said that ND is not in the same league as WUSTL. That's absurd. I threw my WUSTL acceptance and larger scholarship aside when I got ND. I eventually went elsewhere, but I don't think there is another school below USC that compares to ND. WUSTL is a good school, it's just not of the same caliber as ND.

Wustl, ND and UIUC are peer schools.

Notre Dames alumni network did shit for biglaw hiring last OCI.

[nocal]

ND is clearly superior to WUSTL or UIUC. Like a lot of other posters I think they WUSTL and UIUC good schools, they just lack the character and prestige of ND. I've noted that Desert Fox is fond of stating that NDs OCI got decimated last year. I have seen no evidence of this, other than the echo chamber of TLS. Are there any statistics on whether ND suffered a more significant drop off than other schools? You might think so because of its location, I mean if all the firms are trying to cut costs, you would expect them to go local, so schools in Chicago, NY, DC, Boston, SF and LA would not suffer the same drop off, but I have seen no statistics on this.

[09042014]

ND is clearly superior to WUSTL or UIUC. Like a lot of other posters I think they WUSTL and UIUC good schools, they just lack the character and prestige of ND. I've noted that Desert Fox is fond of stating that NDs OCI got decimated last year. I have seen no evidence of this, other than the echo chamber of TLS. Are there any statistics on whether ND suffered a more significant drop off than other schools? You might think so because of its location, I mean if all the firms are trying to cut costs, you would expect them to go local, so schools in Chicago, NY, DC, Boston, SF and LA would not suffer the same drop off, but I have seen no statistics on this.

Go look at the OCI thread from 2009. ND 2L's tell how terrible it is. But UIUC and WUSTL were just as bad. All three have roughly the same placement ability, but ND's is more geographically diverse. UIUC has an edge in Chicago, but has about zero placement outside of Illinois.

All schools placement is bad, but schools like ND, UIUC and WUSTL that place into big markets that T13 students place into, were hurt more than say UNC was.

ND has better prestige nationally than WUSTL or Illinois, but it's not that prestigious, and its law school isn't prestigious at all.

[arden]

If Notre Dame Law is not prestigious, then what hope is there for the rest of us. Desert Fox needs to reel his ego in a bit. I just checked his profile - NU. Explains the ND hate. But the UIUC pumping is a mystery. Undergrad maybe?

[09042014]

If Notre Dame Law is not prestigious, then what hope is there for the rest of us. Desert Fox needs to reel his ego in a bit. I just checked his profile - NU. Explains the ND hate. But the UIUC pumping is a mystery. Undergrad maybe?

Good guess.

I don't hate ND, I'm Irish, from the midwest and was raised Catholic. But we need to be real here.

By every measure ND is a peer of WUSTL and UIUC.

[clint4law]

If Notre Dame Law is not prestigious, then what hope is there for the rest of us. Desert Fox needs to reel his ego in a bit. I just checked his profile - NU. Explains the ND hate. But the UIUC pumping is a mystery. Undergrad maybe?

Good guess.

I don't hate ND, I'm Irish, from the midwest and was raised Catholic. But we need to be real here.

By every measure ND is a peer of WUSTL and UIUC.

yes, but ND deserves a few extra points for its remarkable alumni connections.

[DerrickRose]

For OP, I think the answer is clearly Cornell if money is no object. Or whatever even better school you might get off the waitlist of. That T-14 cred really pays off.

But with respect to the debate that has broken out further down the thread, I am a 1L at Illinois (they're trying to stop calling it UIUC, a decision I fully support) and I've found the school to not only have a good reputation in Chicago, but also also a big time rep in the rest of the state. Now, obviously this forum is pretty BigLaw or bust, but its comforting to know that there are other opportunities out there.

And when I was making my decision, I chose Illinois over WUSTL because of money, and the fact that I found the haughty, no-sports, no-fun private school vibe at WUSTL depressing. It's a fine school though. I didn't even bother applying to ND, because I am fairly liberal, not religious, I despise their football team, and there was no way I was going to live in Indiana for 3 years.

ND has that kind of alumni support partially because it is a very different sort of school. If you're into that, go for it, but you need to know what the culture there is like.

[woeisme]

Update
In: Cornell

Holy crap! Congrats!!