NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC Forum

[Chichaca]

You can fail pretty hard at HLS and still get a good job. You'd be crazy to pass that up.

Is this really true?

[09042014]

You can fail pretty hard at HLS and still get a good job. You'd be crazy to pass that up.

Is this really true?

Yes. Even ITE you had to fuck up pretty bad to not get a 2L offer.

[RVP11]

You can fail pretty hard at HLS and still get a good job. You'd be crazy to pass that up.

Pass this news along to bottom 10% at HLS.

[09042014]

You can fail pretty hard at HLS and still get a good job. You'd be crazy to pass that up.

Pass this news along to bottom 10% at HLS.

I consider bottom 10% more than failing pretty hard. It is failing really hard.

[RVP11]

You can fail pretty hard at HLS and still get a good job. You'd be crazy to pass that up.

Pass this news along to bottom 10% at HLS.

I consider bottom 10% more than failing pretty hard. It is failing really hard.

IDK. I think all Ps and only one LP would put you pretty far down there. And I'm not sure if I consider that "failing really hard."

[09042014]

You can fail pretty hard at HLS and still get a good job. You'd be crazy to pass that up.

Pass this news along to bottom 10% at HLS.

I consider bottom 10% more than failing pretty hard. It is failing really hard.

IDK. I think all Ps and only one LP would put you pretty far down there. And I'm not sure if I consider that "failing really hard."

If LP is bottom 8%, I really doubt 1 LP will make you bottom ten percent.

[ihatelaw]

I'd be curious to see some stats here on the actual differences between HLS and NYU. I'm sure HLS has better placements numbers in most categories but the question is how much of a difference is there between HLS and NYU (and for that matter CLS, UChicago). More than once on these boards I've read that CLS and UChicago are pretty much on par, maybe slightly worse, than HLS in most categories. Even if you buy into the arguments that CLS/Chicago are a tiny bit better than NYU (I personally don't think so which is why I picked NYU over both), the difference can't be that significant.

Basically, unless someone can point to some major differences then go with your gut. If you really feel that going to NYU can offer you something HLS can't, and that overcomes the differences between the two schools, then why not go to NYU? I know a guy who turned down SLS for CLS for a similar reason and that person had no regrets.

3 years away from NYC and a lifetime job on 8th avenue > 3 years in NYC and not being able to get in a job in any of the 5 boroughs after

That's a bit of an exxageration for a school ranked #5 isn't it?

Ask NYU 2Ls below median

While I'm sure someone got screwed for their 2l summer, I haven't actually heard of or met anyone who has been, even at below median. And I have heard of 1Ls who got offers to summer at firms, US Attorneys offices, etc. I don't think the economy has gotten to the point where CCN 2ls and grads aren't getting jobs. Maybe a few deferrals last year but thats happened to HLS kids as well.

[09042014]

While I'm sure someone got screwed for their 2l summer, I haven't actually heard of or met anyone who has been, even at below median. And I have heard of 1Ls who got offers to summer at firms, US Attorneys offices, etc. I don't think the economy has gotten to the point where CCN 2ls and grads aren't getting jobs. Maybe a few deferrals last year but thats happened to HLS kids as well.

Is this a joke or something? You are severely misinformed.

[98234872348]

I'd be curious to see some stats here on the actual differences between HLS and NYU.

While I'm sure someone got screwed for their 2l summer, I haven't actually heard of or met anyone who has been, even at below median. And I have heard of 1Ls who got offers to summer at firms, US Attorneys offices, etc. I don't think the economy has gotten to the point where CCN 2ls and grads aren't getting jobs. Maybe a few deferrals last year but thats happened to HLS kids as well.

As for the first issue, Op wants academia and prestigious federal gov jobs, both of which are more accessible to HLS grads.

As for the second issue, I defer to those in the know. (assuming you go to NYU)

[ihatelaw]

While I'm sure someone got screwed for their 2l summer, I haven't actually heard of or met anyone who has been, even at below median. And I have heard of 1Ls who got offers to summer at firms, US Attorneys offices, etc. I don't think the economy has gotten to the point where CCN 2ls and grads aren't getting jobs. Maybe a few deferrals last year but thats happened to HLS kids as well.

Is this a joke or something? You are severely misinformed.

about which part?

As for the first issue, Op wants academia and prestigious federal gov jobs, both of which are more accessible to HLS grads.

i completely agree they are more accessible from HLS. im just saying that the difference can be overcome by things the OP seems to value. i might not be a decision i would make, but the difference for fed jobs isnt as significant as some people make. Academia is a different issue but you need similar GPA/Publishing/connections from both HLS and NYU to really go in that direction.

[DanInALionsDen]

3 years away from NYC and a lifetime job on 8th avenue > 3 years in NYC and not being able to get in a job in any of the 5 boroughs after

You're on crack

Seriously, the rankings whores on this board crack me up!

Saying that HLS provides substantially better opportunities than NYU is not rankings trolling.

hth.

Too bad that's not what was said. What was said was that an NYU law grad would be unemployable in New York City... come on.

[DanInALionsDen]

3 years away from NYC and a lifetime job on 8th avenue > 3 years in NYC and not being able to get in a job in any of the 5 boroughs after

You're on crack

Seriously, the rankings whores on this board crack me up!

bro, i think he would have still scored better than you on the lsat had he literally been on the rock while taking the test.

hth.

How rude can you be? Sadly even a 174 on the LSAT can't grant a person common sense and some decent manners. Anyway, that doesn't address the issue at all, which was that the post the person was responding to was completely absurd.

As for me, I'd say, go to Harvard, because it's Harvard. Boston isn't far from NYC, you can still see your friends pretty often, and you'll be back in three years with the whole world open to you.

[09042014]

While I'm sure someone got screwed for their 2l summer, I haven't actually heard of or met anyone who has been, even at below median. And I have heard of 1Ls who got offers to summer at firms, US Attorneys offices, etc. I don't think the economy has gotten to the point where CCN 2ls and grads aren't getting jobs. Maybe a few deferrals last year but thats happened to HLS kids as well.

Is this a joke or something? You are severely misinformed.

about which part?

Plenty of CCN 2L's are offerless.

[imchuckbass58]

Plenty of CCN 2L's are offerless.

Says the 0L who isn't even enrolled at NU yet?

I am currently at CCN (like ihatelaw, though different schools), and by the official count 90% of 2Ls are employed for the summer as of Jan. 31st. Granted, not all of these are biglaw, but the unofficial estimates are pegged at around 2/3 of the class still getting biglaw. And many of the kids who struck out (or did not participate) at OCI are still working at decent legal employers (USAOs, national PI organizations, etc).

Don't get me wrong, there has definitely been a deterioration in job prospects, but I hate the knee-jerk "omg no one below median at any school has a job and will have to work at McDonald's" reaction, especially when it comes from 1) a 0L, 2) at a different school, 3) questioning the firsthand experience of people who actually go to these schools.

[ihatelaw]

While I'm sure someone got screwed for their 2l summer, I haven't actually heard of or met anyone who has been, even at below median. And I have heard of 1Ls who got offers to summer at firms, US Attorneys offices, etc. I don't think the economy has gotten to the point where CCN 2ls and grads aren't getting jobs. Maybe a few deferrals last year but thats happened to HLS kids as well.

Is this a joke or something? You are severely misinformed.

about which part?

Plenty of CCN 2L's are offerless.

First, I was pretty explicit that I'm sure there are people getting screwed this summer. Also, I never specified firm jobs. CCN kids who are offerless will get some type of jobs by the end the year. There are HLS 2Ls without offers as well. I'm still not sure what about my post was misinformed.

[imchuckbass58]

To get back on track to the OP's question - you would not be crazy either way. Both are great schools and there's a big possiblity the slight prestige difference won't make a big difference.

That said, if I were in your position (and trust me, I love NYC as much as anyone else), I would got to Harvard, absent money from NYU. Academia and clerkships are the one place where HYS significantly outplaces CCN. For big firms, PI, etc., I'm actually of the opinion that the difference is so small so as to be not worth worrying about.

I totally understand the desire to live in NYC, but I'd consider two things. First, you will be occupied by school a lot of the time. Second, as others have said, you can always come back, and NYC in your late 20s is similar to NYC in your early 20s. I understand this might be less feasible if you go into gov't or academia, where your location will likely be dictated by the job you get.

As I said though, I don't think you're making a bad decision either way.

[Veyron]

You can fail pretty hard at HLS and still get a good job. You'd be crazy to pass that up.

Pass this news along to bottom 10% at HLS.

Or to that guy around median at HLS who still can't find a job and crys about it every day on Autoadmit.

[BlueCivic]

I'm sure there are anecdotes for most situations, no?

[mpasi]

Don't HLS grads get the best NYC job offers? Think of where you want to end up, instead of where you want to be right now.

[Alexandria]

I understand this might be less feasible if you go into gov't or academia, where your location will likely be dicatated by the job you get.

I think this is exactly the problem with the OP's situation. This is not a situation where you have someone who loves NYC and wants to practice law there and who for that reason would rather go to law school there too. That person would be in a much better situation to pick NYU over Harvard.

This is a person who wants to do academia (which for a newcomer requires flexibility as to locale) or "high level" federal work (a lot of which is in DC), but who wants to be in NYC for law school because it's a fun place to be. This is not a sound reason to choose NYU over Harvard.

[Veyron]

I'm sure there are anecdotes for most situations, no?

Yes, exactly. This points out the obvious, that no one is guarenteed a job ITE. Still, for NYC both NYU and HLS grads have a good shot at one.

[rayiner]

I'd be curious to see some stats here on the actual differences between HLS and NYU. I'm sure HLS has better placements numbers in most categories but the question is how much of a difference is there between HLS and NYU (and for that matter CLS, UChicago). More than once on these boards I've read that CLS and UChicago are pretty much on par, maybe slightly worse, than HLS in most categories. Even if you buy into the arguments that CLS/Chicago are a tiny bit better than NYU (I personally don't think so which is why I picked NYU over both), the difference can't be that significant.

Basically, unless someone can point to some major differences then go with your gut. If you really feel that going to NYU can offer you something HLS can't, and that overcomes the differences between the two schools, then why not go to NYU? I know a guy who turned down SLS for CLS for a similar reason and that person had no regrets.

3 years away from NYC and a lifetime job on 8th avenue > 3 years in NYC and not being able to get in a job in any of the 5 boroughs after

That's a bit of an exxageration for a school ranked #5 isn't it?

Ask NYU 2Ls below median

While I'm sure someone got screwed for their 2l summer, I haven't actually heard of or met anyone who has been, even at below median. And I have heard of 1Ls who got offers to summer at firms, US Attorneys offices, etc. I don't think the economy has gotten to the point where CCN 2ls and grads aren't getting jobs. Maybe a few deferrals last year but thats happened to HLS kids as well.

I've heard from multiple sources that fully 1/3 of folks at Chi/CLS struck out in terms of getting an SA.

[Reinhardt]

I think one of the problems with "think about where you want to end up" is that, eventually, you have to stop thinking like that, otherwise you won't enjoy any of your life. OP wants to enjoy life sooner rather than later, and if OP ends up hating life at Harvard, that will be a very big deal. You could say that "it's only 3 years," but think about the number of years you're a healthy, energetic adult. It's not that many.

Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives.

[imchuckbass58]

|I've heard from multiple sources that fully 1/3 of folks at Chi/CLS struck out in terms of getting an SA.

I think this is about accurate (but a minor distinction - what the 2Ls are saying is that 2/3 got biglaw - of the remaining 1/3 a lot struck out, but a significant minority did not want biglaw to begin with).

Still, that is very different from what desertfox was saying, which is effectively that below median at CCN is largely "offerless." Not true.

I'd note that even at the height of the boom CCN (and HLS, for that matter) only placed about 80%-85% in biglaw, so we're really talking about a 15% swing.

[rayiner]

Plenty of CCN 2L's are offerless.

Says the 0L who isn't even enrolled at NU yet?

I am currently at CCN (like ihatelaw, though different schools), and by the official count 90% of 2Ls are employed for the summer as of Jan. 31st. Granted, not all of these are biglaw, but the unofficial estimates are pegged at around 2/3 of the class still getting biglaw.

Your data is more consonant with DF's statements than ihatelaw's.

ihatelaw: "While I'm sure someone got screwed for their 2l summer"
Desert Fox: "Plenty of CCN 2L's are offerless."

Reading "offer" as "biglaw offer" here, I'd say 1/3 without a big law offer is much closer to "plenty" than "someone".

Still, that is very different from what desertfox was saying, which is effectively that below median at CCN is largely "offerless." Not true.

I read the "below median" bit as a counter to ihatelaw's use of the word: "someone". Although technically speaking the majority of the bottom half is without an SA offer (assuming nearly all of the top half has one). (2/3 - 1/2) << (1/4)

Anecdotally, HLS is doing a lot better than CCN re: biglaw offers, by about the same margin as CCN is doing better than T7-14 (I've heard 80% at HLS with 2L SA's, and that's probably approaching saturation a bit).