Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein) Forum

[Mullens]

I know TLS people are probably all gonna choose the Ruby. But just to give you some of my personal perspective as someone who likes to think in longer terms. Once you make partner at BigLaw, the $250k debt is not gonna worth even a tenth of your yearly income. Also, in 30 years, your classmates at HLS are going to be Presidents, Senators, Congressmen, Attorney-Generals, federal judges, and SCOTUS Justices etc. You mentioned you wanted to go into Judiciary later down your career? Wouldn't you like your classmates to be the ones to conduct your confirmation hearings? Also the legal field is becoming more international as we speak. If you ever want to practice internationally, HLS's reputation will put you in a place and give you resources unmatched by any other school. Idk but I have bigger ambitions in life and I think HLS is for people who like to dream big. To be sure, your life quality immediately after law school will most likely suffer a bit because of this but you will spend all your time in corporate offices anyway so why does it matter.

LOL at "once you make partner." What percentage of people do you think make partner in biglaw? Going to HLS over UChi will also have zero impact on if OP makes partner.

[existentialcrisis]

I know TLS people are probably all gonna choose the Ruby. But just to give you some of my personal perspective as someone who likes to think in longer terms. Once you make partner at BigLaw....

I'm gonna go ahead and stop you right there, because that isn't happening. Also the rest of your post is dumb as well.

Edit: scooped

[unpetitpacifiste]

I know TLS people are probably all gonna choose the Ruby. But just to give you some of my personal perspective as someone who likes to think in longer terms. Once you make partner at BigLaw....

I'm gonna go ahead and stop you right there, because that isn't happening. Also the rest of your post is dumb as well.

Edit: scooped

Sure, of course it's not happening with this attitude. Also, you know that labeling my post as dumb with offering any support/evidence isn't helping your argument right?

[unpetitpacifiste]

I know TLS people are probably all gonna choose the Ruby. But just to give you some of my personal perspective as someone who likes to think in longer terms. Once you make partner at BigLaw, the $250k debt is not gonna worth even a tenth of your yearly income. Also, in 30 years, your classmates at HLS are going to be Presidents, Senators, Congressmen, Attorney-Generals, federal judges, and SCOTUS Justices etc. You mentioned you wanted to go into Judiciary later down your career? Wouldn't you like your classmates to be the ones to conduct your confirmation hearings? Also the legal field is becoming more international as we speak. If you ever want to practice internationally, HLS's reputation will put you in a place and give you resources unmatched by any other school. Idk but I have bigger ambitions in life and I think HLS is for people who like to dream big. To be sure, your life quality immediately after law school will most likely suffer a bit because of this but you will spend all your time in corporate offices anyway so why does it matter.

LOL at "once you make partner." What percentage of people do you think make partner in biglaw? Going to HLS over UChi will also have zero impact on if OP makes partner.

I am not saying it would. I am merely saying that compared to the yearly income of a partner, this debt is really negligible so I don't think it should play as heavy a role as everyone is making it out to be. Also, the OP wants to go into Judiciary. If he can do that, surely he can make partner?

[unpetitpacifiste]

I know TLS people are probably all gonna choose the Ruby. But just to give you some of my personal perspective as someone who likes to think in longer terms. Once you make partner at BigLaw, the $250k debt is not gonna worth even a tenth of your yearly income. Also, in 30 years, your classmates at HLS are going to be Presidents, Senators, Congressmen, Attorney-Generals, federal judges, and SCOTUS Justices etc. You mentioned you wanted to go into Judiciary later down your career? Wouldn't you like your classmates to be the ones to conduct your confirmation hearings? Also the legal field is becoming more international as we speak. If you ever want to practice internationally, HLS's reputation will put you in a place and give you resources unmatched by any other school. Idk but I have bigger ambitions in life and I think HLS is for people who like to dream big. To be sure, your life quality immediately after law school will most likely suffer a bit because of this but you will spend all your time in corporate offices anyway so why does it matter.

Yes, because all Harvard grads make partner at biglaw. And no one from Chicago will.

I am not sure where you got this statements from. I certainly made no assertion of this sort. I think you are adding an implicit assumption to my argument that is really not necessary.

[existentialcrisis]

I know TLS people are probably all gonna choose the Ruby. But just to give you some of my personal perspective as someone who likes to think in longer terms. Once you make partner at BigLaw....

I'm gonna go ahead and stop you right there, because that isn't happening. Also the rest of your post is dumb as well.

Edit: scooped

Sure, of course it's not happening with this attitude. Also, you know that labeling my post as dumb with offering any support/evidence isn't helping your argument right?

Do you have any idea what the big law business model is like? The odds of making partner are spectacularly small, and have literally nothing to do with where you went to school.

Luck plays a huge a role, and being outstanding at your job is necessary but not sufficient.

The HLS bro at Skadden, Sullcrom, etc. has no better chance of making partner than the Chicago bro.

[Npret]

I know TLS people are probably all gonna choose the Ruby. But just to give you some of my personal perspective as someone who likes to think in longer terms. Once you make partner at BigLaw, the $250k debt is not gonna worth even a tenth of your yearly income. Also, in 30 years, your classmates at HLS are going to be Presidents, Senators, Congressmen, Attorney-Generals, federal judges, and SCOTUS Justices etc. You mentioned you wanted to go into Judiciary later down your career? Wouldn't you like your classmates to be the ones to conduct your confirmation hearings? Also the legal field is becoming more international as we speak. If you ever want to practice internationally, HLS's reputation will put you in a place and give you resources unmatched by any other school. Idk but I have bigger ambitions in life and I think HLS is for people who like to dream big. To be sure, your life quality immediately after law school will most likely suffer a bit because of this but you will spend all your time in corporate offices anyway so why does it matter.

Yes, because all Harvard grads make partner at biglaw. And no one from Chicago will.

I am not sure where you got this statements from. I certainly made no assertion of this sort. I think you are adding an implicit assumption to my argument that is really not necessary.

So why exactly are you arguing against the Ruby? You said "once you make partner it won't matter." It sounds like you think Harvard will get you a biglaw partnership but Chicago won't. Otherwise, why not take the scholarship?

[Nebby]

You're a 0L, right? You must be because you appear to lack even a rudimentary understanding of law practice and legal careers.

[existentialcrisis]

You're a 0L, right? You must be because you appear to lack even a rudimentary understanding of law practice and legal careers.

Says the presumed Harvard REJECT, who lacks what it takes to make partner.

[unpetitpacifiste]

You're a 0L, right? You must be because you appear to lack even a rudimentary understanding of law practice and legal careers.

why are you attacking the speaker rather than the argument? com'on it's logic reasoning error 101. If you think you have a better understanding, then would you care to elaborate?

[unpetitpacifiste]

I feel like this is getting very dramatic... Just to make my points clear, I realize that making partner at BigLaw is very difficult and I also realize that having a JD from Harvard is not gonna make it any easier than having one from Chicago. I am merely saying that the debt, which looks very significant to us right now, might not look that way 10 years down the road. So I think you should think twice about rejecting a far more prestigious school for the sake of money, especially if you have political ambitions. It's no-brainer that there are far more people in positions of power who got their degree from HLS. (Just to give you an example, out of the 100 current US senators, 8 of them have a HLS JD while only 1 has a Chicago JD). For me personally, the resume boost and the extensive alumni network are worth it. Also, as an international student, there is a chance that I might go back to my home country, where a HLS JD will carry me much further.

[Nebby]

You're a 0L, right? You must be because you appear to lack even a rudimentary understanding of law practice and legal careers.

why are you attacking the speaker rather than the argument? com'on it's logic reasoning error 101. If you think you have a better understanding, then would you care to elaborate?

This is a joke, right? Your argument lacks a basic understanding of the legal profession, and I further attack your credentials so that any person reading your posts understands that you're a 0L who doesn't know what they're talking about. If you're going to come here and give career advice, it's reasonable for people to assume that must mean you have some idea of what you're talking about. But, as a 0L, you don't know what you're talking about, and people should be aware of that.

[WheninLaw]

I feel like this is getting very dramatic... Just to make my points clear, I realize that making partner at BigLaw is very difficult and I also realize that having a JD from Harvard is not gonna make it any easier than having one from Chicago. I am merely saying that the debt, which looks very significant to us right now, might not look that way 10 years down the road. So I think you should think twice about rejecting a far more prestigious school for the sake of money, especially if you have political ambitions. It's no-brainer that there are far more people in positions of power who got their degree from HLS. (Just to give you an example, out of the 100 current US senators, 8 of them have a HLS JD while only 1 has a Chicago JD). For me personally, the resume boost and the extensive alumni network are worth it. Also, as an international student, there is a chance that I might go back to my home country, where a HLS JD will carry me much further.

It is really hard to take you seriously.

[cavalier1138]

I feel like this is getting very dramatic... Just to make my points clear, I realize that making partner at BigLaw is very difficult and I also realize that having a JD from Harvard is not gonna make it any easier than having one from Chicago. I am merely saying that the debt, which looks very significant to us right now, might not look that way 10 years down the road. So I think you should think twice about rejecting a far more prestigious school for the sake of money, especially if you have political ambitions. It's no-brainer that there are far more people in positions of power who got their degree from HLS. (Just to give you an example, out of the 100 current US senators, 8 of them have a HLS JD while only 1 has a Chicago JD). For me personally, the resume boost and the extensive alumni network are worth it. Also, as an international student, there is a chance that I might go back to my home country, where a HLS JD will carry me much further.

Do you not understand the contradictions in your own argument?

If everyone has a very low probability of making partner, then it's fucking idiotic to make financial calculations based on what life might look like when you are a partner 10 years down the road. But stellar example of the worst possible 0L mentality towards prestige.

[unpetitpacifiste]

I feel like this is getting very dramatic... Just to make my points clear, I realize that making partner at BigLaw is very difficult and I also realize that having a JD from Harvard is not gonna make it any easier than having one from Chicago. I am merely saying that the debt, which looks very significant to us right now, might not look that way 10 years down the road. So I think you should think twice about rejecting a far more prestigious school for the sake of money, especially if you have political ambitions. It's no-brainer that there are far more people in positions of power who got their degree from HLS. (Just to give you an example, out of the 100 current US senators, 8 of them have a HLS JD while only 1 has a Chicago JD). For me personally, the resume boost and the extensive alumni network are worth it. Also, as an international student, there is a chance that I might go back to my home country, where a HLS JD will carry me much further.

It is really hard to take you seriously.

why? is it because I am making a sincere and genuine attempt to engage? or is it because I am advancing an opposite point of view that you don't agree with?

[Nebby]

I feel like this is getting very dramatic... Just to make my points clear, I realize that making partner at BigLaw is very difficult and I also realize that having a JD from Harvard is not gonna make it any easier than having one from Chicago. I am merely saying that the debt, which looks very significant to us right now, might not look that way 10 years down the road. So I think you should think twice about rejecting a far more prestigious school for the sake of money, especially if you have political ambitions. It's no-brainer that there are far more people in positions of power who got their degree from HLS. (Just to give you an example, out of the 100 current US senators, 8 of them have a HLS JD while only 1 has a Chicago JD). For me personally, the resume boost and the extensive alumni network are worth it. Also, as an international student, there is a chance that I might go back to my home country, where a HLS JD will carry me much further.

It is really hard to take you seriously.

why? is it because I am making a sincere and genuine attempt to engage? or is it because I am advancing an opposite point of view that you don't agree with?

Neither. You're advancing a view that is divorced from reality

[WheninLaw]

I feel like this is getting very dramatic... Just to make my points clear, I realize that making partner at BigLaw is very difficult and I also realize that having a JD from Harvard is not gonna make it any easier than having one from Chicago. I am merely saying that the debt, which looks very significant to us right now, might not look that way 10 years down the road. So I think you should think twice about rejecting a far more prestigious school for the sake of money, especially if you have political ambitions. It's no-brainer that there are far more people in positions of power who got their degree from HLS. (Just to give you an example, out of the 100 current US senators, 8 of them have a HLS JD while only 1 has a Chicago JD). For me personally, the resume boost and the extensive alumni network are worth it. Also, as an international student, there is a chance that I might go back to my home country, where a HLS JD will carry me much further.

It is really hard to take you seriously.

why? is it because I am making a sincere and genuine attempt to engage? or is it because I am advancing an opposite point of view that you don't agree with?

Because your points are not tethered to reality.

[zhenders]

Literally no point reading any of the above, because the ONLY right answer is to take the Ruby. There is no upside to doing anything else. None. Anyone who turns down a Ruby almost certainly was offered one by mistake, because they certainly don't qualify for it on intellectual merit.

[BlendedUnicorn]

I feel like this is getting very dramatic... Just to make my points clear, I realize that making partner at BigLaw is very difficult and I also realize that having a JD from Harvard is not gonna make it any easier than having one from Chicago. I am merely saying that the debt, which looks very significant to us right now, might not look that way 10 years down the road. So I think you should think twice about rejecting a far more prestigious school for the sake of money, especially if you have political ambitions. It's no-brainer that there are far more people in positions of power who got their degree from HLS. (Just to give you an example, out of the 100 current US senators, 8 of them have a HLS JD while only 1 has a Chicago JD). For me personally, the resume boost and the extensive alumni network are worth it. Also, as an international student, there is a chance that I might go back to my home country, where a HLS JD will carry me much further.

It is really hard to take you seriously.

why? is it because I am making a sincere and genuine attempt to engage? or is it because I am advancing an opposite point of view that you don't agree with?

Neither. You're advancing a view that is divorced from reality

Clearly you haven't read the "where are they now" survey which shows that 10 years after graduating from law school, Chicago's class of 2007 is lucky if the WORLD LEADERS of Harvard throw them a few bucks when they walk by their sleeping bag on the street.

[unpetitpacifiste]

I feel like this is getting very dramatic... Just to make my points clear, I realize that making partner at BigLaw is very difficult and I also realize that having a JD from Harvard is not gonna make it any easier than having one from Chicago. I am merely saying that the debt, which looks very significant to us right now, might not look that way 10 years down the road. So I think you should think twice about rejecting a far more prestigious school for the sake of money, especially if you have political ambitions. It's no-brainer that there are far more people in positions of power who got their degree from HLS. (Just to give you an example, out of the 100 current US senators, 8 of them have a HLS JD while only 1 has a Chicago JD). For me personally, the resume boost and the extensive alumni network are worth it. Also, as an international student, there is a chance that I might go back to my home country, where a HLS JD will carry me much further.

Do you not understand the contradictions in your own argument?

If everyone has a very low probability of making partner, then it's fucking idiotic to make financial calculations based on what life might look like when you are a partner 10 years down the road. But stellar example of the worst possible 0L mentality towards prestige.

Sorry I don't. I didn't assume that everyone is going to make partner. Even if you don't make partner, the salary of an eighth year associate, according to the Cravath scale, is $315,000, which still makes the $25k debt look not so significant. In addition, because we are giving advice to the OP, who seems very bright and likely to outperform his average classmates, I think it's reasonable to assume he is going to have an even more high-paying job. BTW, your attitude is not making me look bad. Can't you see that I am merely trying to help by advancing an unpopular view? if we can't have a civil conversation here, I don't know how we can blame the current toxic social media environment.

I will stop responding with a last message to the OP since I think I have made my point: Regardless of what you choose in the end, I think you are going to have a very bright future given your current achievements. But I will be very glad if you decide to join us at HLS, where I am sure you will be a great addition.

[Dcc617]

OP, do not listen to 0Ls. They don't know what they're saying.

[Po$eidon]

I know TLS people are probably all gonna choose the Ruby. But just to give you some of my personal perspective as someone who likes to think in longer terms. Once you make partner at BigLaw....

I'm gonna go ahead and stop you right there, because that isn't happening. Also the rest of your post is dumb as well.

Edit: scooped

Sure, of course it's not happening with this attitude. Also, you know that labeling my post as dumb with offering any support/evidence isn't helping your argument right?

#insufferable

You're just wrong/that's not the reality. Your statement is facially absurd. You aren't making partner and you're going to have fancy classmates at all of these schools

[BlendedUnicorn]

The day you start your first job nobody will care where you went to school

[Po$eidon]

I feel like this is getting very dramatic... Just to make my points clear, I realize that making partner at BigLaw is very difficult and I also realize that having a JD from Harvard is not gonna make it any easier than having one from Chicago. I am merely saying that the debt, which looks very significant to us right now, might not look that way 10 years down the road. So I think you should think twice about rejecting a far more prestigious school for the sake of money, especially if you have political ambitions. It's no-brainer that there are far more people in positions of power who got their degree from HLS. (Just to give you an example, out of the 100 current US senators, 8 of them have a HLS JD while only 1 has a Chicago JD). For me personally, the resume boost and the extensive alumni network are worth it. Also, as an international student, there is a chance that I might go back to my home country, where a HLS JD will carry me much further.

It is really hard to take you seriously.

why? is it because I am making a sincere and genuine attempt to engage? or is it because I am advancing an opposite point of view that you don't agree with?

Neither. You're advancing a view that is divorced from reality

Clearly you haven't read the "where are they now" survey which shows that 10 years after graduating from law school, Chicago's class of 2007 is lucky if the WORLD LEADERS of Harvard throw them a few bucks when they walk by their sleeping bag on the street.

Fact: Uchi is in Chicago to prepare its graduates for their eventual frigid sleeping bag existence

[cavalier1138]

I feel like this is getting very dramatic... Just to make my points clear, I realize that making partner at BigLaw is very difficult and I also realize that having a JD from Harvard is not gonna make it any easier than having one from Chicago. I am merely saying that the debt, which looks very significant to us right now, might not look that way 10 years down the road. So I think you should think twice about rejecting a far more prestigious school for the sake of money, especially if you have political ambitions. It's no-brainer that there are far more people in positions of power who got their degree from HLS. (Just to give you an example, out of the 100 current US senators, 8 of them have a HLS JD while only 1 has a Chicago JD). For me personally, the resume boost and the extensive alumni network are worth it. Also, as an international student, there is a chance that I might go back to my home country, where a HLS JD will carry me much further.

Do you not understand the contradictions in your own argument?

If everyone has a very low probability of making partner, then it's fucking idiotic to make financial calculations based on what life might look like when you are a partner 10 years down the road. But stellar example of the worst possible 0L mentality towards prestige.

Sorry I don't. I didn't assume that everyone is going to make partner. Even if you don't make partner, the salary of an eighth year associate, according to the Cravath scale, is $315,000, which still makes the $25k debt look not so significant. In addition, because we are giving advice to the OP, who seems very bright and likely to outperform his average classmates, I think it's reasonable to assume he is going to have an even more high-paying job. BTW, your attitude is not making me look bad. Can't you see that I am merely trying to help by advancing an unpopular view? if we can't have a civil conversation here, I don't know how we can blame the current toxic social media environment.

I will stop responding with a last message to the OP since I think I have made my point: Regardless of what you choose in the end, I think you are going to have a very bright future given your current achievements. But I will be very glad if you decide to join us at HLS, where I am sure you will be a great addition.

This is the best advertisement for staying the hell away from HLS that I've ever seen.