Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School: #TrustTheProcess Forum

[Biglaw1990]

Cardozo-17.96% (Biglaw+Federal Clerkship) (65/362) (2014-13.01%)
FTBPR-67.96% (246/362)
Federal Clerkships: 3
101-250: 6
251-500: 10
501+: 46

Government: 35(9.67%) (1 full-time short-term, and 1 part-time long-term)
PI: 22 (6.08%) (1 full-time short-term)

[Biglaw1990]

Hofstra-6.64% (Biglaw+Federal Clerkship) (20/301)
FTBPR-74.42% (224/301)
Federal Clerkships: 3 (including 1 full-time short-term)
101-250: 9
251-500: 1
501+: 7 (including 1 part-time short-term)

Government: 40(13.29%) (12 full-time short-term, 1 part-time long-term, and 1 part-time short-term)
PI: 20 (6.64%) (1 part-time short-term)

[zot1]

Nebby, finish the stats already...

[Tls2016]

To anyone freaking out about these numbers, you have to keep in mind that not long ago all we had was biglaw and clerk percentages, neither of which were terribly well compiled, but at least it was something. Then PI/Gov stuff started trickling out, but we had little idea of how much was actually real, long term employment not funded by the school. So now that we have better access to that info, maybe we can start compiling a new metric by which to compare schools, but if the goal is to compare apples to apples across years you really can't do that with PI/Gov mixed in.

Yeah. I got lost in the arguments but this is important.
It's not that people dismiss PI, it's that it's hard to know how many of those jobs are real long term career type jobs, how many are school funded real fellowships designed to help people transition into a real long term career type job and how many are school funded fellowships that were created solely to boost employment rates and may not be intended to lead anywhere other than make the schools numbers look good.
People do think PI is a real career. The data has been hard to figure out.

[Roundhill]

Cardozo-17.96% (Biglaw+Federal Clerkship) (65/362) (2014-13.01%)
FTBPR-67.96% (246/362)
Federal Clerkships: 3
101-250: 6
251-500: 10
501+: 46

Government: 35(9.67%) (1 full-time short-term, and 1 part-time long-term)
PI: 22 (6.08%) (1 full-time short-term)

OL and I've noticed this school gets bashed often on these forums, but this seems like a decent number for big law for its rank (especially for the large 500+ firms). I know Cardozo very generous with merit aid for those above medians.

[gazorpazorp]

Getting annoyed at the lack of GULC

[BigTex]

Texas' stats are up: https://law.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploa ... of2015.pdf

33.8% Big Law (101+)
8.4% Fed Clerkship
42.3% Big Law + Fed

PI +Gov = 16.1%

7.6% Unemployed Seeking



2014:
35.8% Big Law
10.5% Fed Clerkship
46.4% Big Law + Fed
17.6% PI +Gov
5.1% Unemployed Seeking

[illini2013]

Where did people see UIUC's numbers?

[Nebby]

I'll add the new ones to OP when I'm not on my phone. Thanks for posting them!

[proteinshake]

I just want to see if Cornell kept up the awesomeness.

[fishpaste1]

Wake Forest is up: http://career.law.wfu.edu/stats/class-o ... t-profile/

Biglaw+Federal Clerkship- (17/138) (12.3%)
FTBPR-66% (91/138)
Federal Clerkships: 0
101-250: 3
251-500: 5
501+: 9

Government: 15(10.8%)
PI: 9 (6.5%)
JD Advantage: 23 (16%)
Unemployed-Seeking: 3 (2.1%)

[favabeansoup]

Texas' stats are up: https://law.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploa ... of2015.pdf

33.8% Big Law (101+)
8.4% Fed Clerkship
42.3% Big Law + Fed

PI +Gov = 16.1%

7.6% Unemployed Seeking



2014:
35.8% Big Law
10.5% Fed Clerkship
46.4% Big Law + Fed
17.6% PI +Gov
5.1% Unemployed Seeking

Little disappointing in the drop. Wonder how much the oil price crash over last 1-2 years affected this. Also graduating classes are considerably smaller after this I believe (I think the 1L class size this year was like 265 vs. this graduating class of 365), so hopefully will improve more next year.

[BVest]

Also with Texas, the class of 2015 was the first with a large (and still the largest ever for UT) transfer class. As a member of that, I wonder to what extent that impacted the numbers.

[zozo]

Where did people see UIUC's numbers?

https://www.law.illinois.edu/content/pd ... ary.pdf?v1

[Hikikomorist]

Texas' stats are up: https://law.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploa ... of2015.pdf

33.8% Big Law (101+)
8.4% Fed Clerkship
42.3% Big Law + Fed

PI +Gov = 16.1%

7.6% Unemployed Seeking



2014:
35.8% Big Law
10.5% Fed Clerkship
46.4% Big Law + Fed
17.6% PI +Gov
5.1% Unemployed Seeking

Pretty terrible in light of the general trend.

[TLSDookie]

Cardozo-17.96% (Biglaw+Federal Clerkship) (65/362) (2014-13.01%)
FTBPR-67.96% (246/362)
Federal Clerkships: 3
101-250: 6
251-500: 10
501+: 46

Government: 35(9.67%) (1 full-time short-term, and 1 part-time long-term)
PI: 22 (6.08%) (1 full-time short-term)

OL and I've noticed this school gets bashed often on these forums, but this seems like a decent number for big law for its rank (especially for the large 500+ firms). I know Cardozo very generous with merit aid for those above medians.

The knock on Cardozo isn't that it doesn't have any placement power. It's a regional school and its region is Manhattan. Of course to some extent it has BL opportunities through networking and name power into Manhattan-based firms, leading to better BL placement rates than similar T2 schools. If it had those BL rates and reasonable other job rates, its stats would be competitive with most t1 schools.

The knock on Cardozo is that 30+% of its class can't find any sort of bar passage req. job at all. That's terrifying. And even if you're above that 30% threshold, what kind of opportunities are there for a NY-based regional school shut out of the NY BL market? Are you going to sell a Cardozo degree to DC/Chi/CA/any of 48 states not named NY/NJ? Not likely. And good luck staying/living in that market without a BL salary.

If you're going on a generous aid package and don't mind wasting a few years, it can be a reasonable decision to try and roll the dice and land in the top 20% of the class, but paying money for a Cardozo degree based on their BL rate vs. attending a regional school with a worse BL rate is an objectively bad/high risk decision.

[zozo]

Wake Forest is up: http://career.law.wfu.edu/stats/class-o ... t-profile/

Biglaw+Federal Clerkship- (17/138) (12.3%)
FTBPR-66% (91/138)
Federal Clerkships: 0
101-250: 3
251-500: 5
501+: 9

Government: 15(10.8%)
PI: 9 (6.5%)
JD Advantage: 23 (16%)
Unemployed-Seeking: 3 (2.1%)

Strange result. Unusually horrible Biglaw+Fed Clerk placement, but impressive that they at least managed to place almost everyone, given their unemployment problems in recent years.

[WokeUpInACar]

Texas' stats are up: https://law.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploa ... of2015.pdf

33.8% Big Law (101+)
8.4% Fed Clerkship
42.3% Big Law + Fed

PI +Gov = 16.1%

7.6% Unemployed Seeking



2014:
35.8% Big Law
10.5% Fed Clerkship
46.4% Big Law + Fed
17.6% PI +Gov
5.1% Unemployed Seeking

Little disappointing in the drop. Wonder how much the oil price crash over last 1-2 years affected this. Also graduating classes are considerably smaller after this I believe (I think the 1L class size this year was like 265 vs. this graduating class of 365), so hopefully will improve more next year.

As Bvest mentioned, the transfer class had a huge impact on this, and will going forward. UT never took many transfers at all until c/o 2015, when they realized that they could keep the initial class size low and the medians high while keeping revenues stable if they just accept a shitload of transfer students.

The entering class size for c/o 2014 was 375, and there were 351 students that graduated. The entering class size for c/o 2015 was 300 students, and yet 354 students graduated, so there were likely 60+ transfer students. All of the anecdotal evidence I've seen suggests that these transfer students do much worse at OCI than the regular students. UT really SHOULD release the job stats specifically for transfer students, but they almost certainly won't, because they very likely paint an ugly picture.

Basically, I think overall non-transfer students likely had similar outcomes from 2014 to 2015, but the huge glut of transfers tanked the numbers. It's definitely NAGL all around though.

[BVest]

The entering class size for c/o 2014 was 375, and there were 351 students that graduated. The entering class size for c/o 2015 was 300 students, and yet 354 students graduated, so there were likely 60+ transfer students. All of the anecdotal evidence I've seen suggests that these transfer students do much worse at OCI than the regular students. UT really SHOULD release the job stats specifically for transfer students, but they almost certainly won't, because they very likely paint an ugly picture.

Basically, I think overall non-transfer students likely had similar outcomes from 2014 to 2015, but the huge glut of transfers tanked the numbers. It's definitely NAGL all around though.

I'm not sure transfers as a whole did do worse in the end though, even if they did appear (again, anecdotally) to fare worse at OCI. There are a good number of transfers from c/o 2015 who landed AIII and BL. The raw difference is 7 fewer BL and 7 fewer AIII. But I'm not sure all of that can be ascribed to the transfer class.

One place some of those folks may have gone is state clerkships, which obviously don't count for either AIII or BL. There were 6 in 2014 and 16 in 2015. I don't know what every state court clerk's situation is, but I do know that of the 8 clerks UT sent to the SSC, at least 5 are headed to BL after.

[kobe1020]

Texas' stats are up: https://law.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploa ... of2015.pdf

33.8% Big Law (101+)
8.4% Fed Clerkship
42.3% Big Law + Fed

PI +Gov = 16.1%

7.6% Unemployed Seeking



2014:
35.8% Big Law
10.5% Fed Clerkship
46.4% Big Law + Fed
17.6% PI +Gov
5.1% Unemployed Seeking

this is not good. WTF with having even a bigger graduating class than class of 2014?! How many transfers did we accept?

i was expecting Texas to have a good year. But apparently based on my personal experience here...it is not happening unless they cut down on enrollment.

I think the Dean is on the right track.

[kobe1020]

Texas' stats are up: https://law.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploa ... of2015.pdf

33.8% Big Law (101+)
8.4% Fed Clerkship
42.3% Big Law + Fed

PI +Gov = 16.1%

7.6% Unemployed Seeking



2014:
35.8% Big Law
10.5% Fed Clerkship
46.4% Big Law + Fed
17.6% PI +Gov
5.1% Unemployed Seeking

Little disappointing in the drop. Wonder how much the oil price crash over last 1-2 years affected this. Also graduating classes are considerably smaller after this I believe (I think the 1L class size this year was like 265 vs. this graduating class of 365), so hopefully will improve more next year.

As Bvest mentioned, the transfer class had a huge impact on this, and will going forward. UT never took many transfers at all until c/o 2015, when they realized that they could keep the initial class size low and the medians high while keeping revenues stable if they just accept a shitload of transfer students.

The entering class size for c/o 2014 was 375, and there were 351 students that graduated. The entering class size for c/o 2015 was 300 students, and yet 354 students graduated, so there were likely 60+ transfer students. All of the anecdotal evidence I've seen suggests that these transfer students do much worse at OCI than the regular students. UT really SHOULD release the job stats specifically for transfer students, but they almost certainly won't, because they very likely paint an ugly picture.

Basically, I think overall non-transfer students likely had similar outcomes from 2014 to 2015, but the huge glut of transfers tanked the numbers. It's definitely NAGL all around though.

i concur...

and i think farnsworth realized that. let's see how many transfers he's taking this summer

[Effingham]

Notre Dame is up

ND - 40.22% (Biglaw+Federal Clerkship) (72/179)
FTBPR - 73.74% (132/179)
Federal Clerkships: 14
101-250: 13
251-500: 9
501+: 36

Is this accurate? Havent looked at this stuff since I was applying.

http://law.nd.edu/assets/196115/2015_ab ... ummary.pdf

[kobe1020]

Texas' stats are up: https://law.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploa ... of2015.pdf

33.8% Big Law (101+)
8.4% Fed Clerkship
42.3% Big Law + Fed

PI +Gov = 16.1%

7.6% Unemployed Seeking



2014:
35.8% Big Law
10.5% Fed Clerkship
46.4% Big Law + Fed
17.6% PI +Gov
5.1% Unemployed Seeking

Little disappointing in the drop. Wonder how much the oil price crash over last 1-2 years affected this. Also graduating classes are considerably smaller after this I believe (I think the 1L class size this year was like 265 vs. this graduating class of 365), so hopefully will improve more next year.

As Bvest mentioned, the transfer class had a huge impact on this, and will going forward. UT never took many transfers at all until c/o 2015, when they realized that they could keep the initial class size low and the medians high while keeping revenues stable if they just accept a shitload of transfer students.

The entering class size for c/o 2014 was 375, and there were 351 students that graduated. The entering class size for c/o 2015 was 300 students, and yet 354 students graduated, so there were likely 60+ transfer students. All of the anecdotal evidence I've seen suggests that these transfer students do much worse at OCI than the regular students. UT really SHOULD release the job stats specifically for transfer students, but they almost certainly won't, because they very likely paint an ugly picture.

Basically, I think overall non-transfer students likely had similar outcomes from 2014 to 2015, but the huge glut of transfers tanked the numbers. It's definitely NAGL all around though.

i concur...

and i think farnsworth realized that. let's see how many transfers he's taking this summer

Also I'd like to know what Farnsworth has to say about this rather disappointing result.

Not a big drop, but I was expecting a rise, i'm sure so were a lot other ppl.

[BigZuck]

It's a few percentage drop, I don't think it's a huge deal. Just don't be a transfer student. EZ game.

At least we aren't Michigan amirite? Lol Michigan, just lol.

(But really I don't think it should change the calculus at all for incoming students but then again US News Rankings still manage to exist so people obviously care about granular differences from year to year)

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

Notre Dame is up

ND - 40.22% (Biglaw+Federal Clerkship) (72/179)
FTBPR - 73.74% (132/179)
Federal Clerkships: 14
101-250: 13
251-500: 9
501+: 36

Is this accurate? Havent looked at this stuff since I was applying.

http://law.nd.edu/assets/196115/2015_ab ... ummary.pdf

*60% of the class financially ruined for life*

*is killing it*