NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012 Forum

[Sheffield]

OK, agreed. But still, that “duh... I'm a dumbass” look on the poster’s face is priceless.

[gnuwheels]

FWIW, CSO told the 1L's that this past OCI has been the best since the recession. I don't know if that is the same at other T14's.

Yea, at Michigan, career services has been telling 1Ls that this past OCI ~2/3's of those participating got offers, up from less than 50% in recent years. I'm not sure what percentage of the class participates, but even assuming 75%, that's a significant bump from what this data is reporting.

I would also point out that I personally already know a lot of 1Ls focused on very small markets, and I think the point already made is true that people from rural/small urban areas who want to go to a T10 school are attracted to Michigan's a) small town atmosphere, as well as b) its relative proximity to the midwest and reach to the west, and many of them end up going back to their home markets to firms that are not among the 250 largest in the country. Sure, this number is probably small as it affects the numbers, but compared to somewhere like Penn I think it might actually make a bit of a difference.

[star fox]

Michigan (2011 data)
501+: 21.6 %
251-500: 7.1 %
101-250: 5.3 %
51-100: 1.6 %

total over 50: 35.6 %

Penn (2011 data)

501+: 45.3 %
251-500: 7.7 %
101-250: 5.1 %
51-100: 1.1 %

It doesn't seem to be a matter of selection as last year roughly the same proportion of Michigan and Penn grads ended up in firms between 51-500 lawyers. It seems there's just way more big law jobs in the northeast.

[shntn]

They won't be able to impress DC with their prestige until their football scandal is completely resolved. No one knows what to make of Joe Pa's legacy yet, so most firms in DC are still making up their minds how they feel about the school.

UPENN and Penn State.... it never gets old.

Except that it definitely does.

Sigh...

[Crowing]

They won't be able to impress DC with their prestige until their football scandal is completely resolved. No one knows what to make of Joe Pa's legacy yet, so most firms in DC are still making up their minds how they feel about the school.

UPENN and Penn State.... it never gets old.

Except that it definitely does.

Sigh...

There, there...

[Robespierre]

FWIW, CSO told the 1L's that this past OCI has been the best since the recession. I don't know if that is the same at other T14's.

Yea, at Michigan, career services has been telling 1Ls that this past OCI ~2/3's of those participating got offers, up from less than 50% in recent years. I'm not sure what percentage of the class participates, but even assuming 75%, that's a significant bump from what this data is reporting.

I would also point out that I personally already know a lot of 1Ls focused on very small markets, and I think the point already made is true that people from rural/small urban areas who want to go to a T10 school are attracted to Michigan's a) small town atmosphere, as well as b) its relative proximity to the midwest and reach to the west, and many of them end up going back to their home markets to firms that are not among the 250 largest in the country. Sure, this number is probably small as it affects the numbers, but compared to somewhere like Penn I think it might actually make a bit of a difference.

These posts are encouraging because they run counter to the recent NALP report indicating that this past recruiting season was actually slightly weaker than the previous one: http://www.nalp.org/uploads/Perspective ... uiting.pdf

[skers]

FWIW, CSO told the 1L's that this past OCI has been the best since the recession. I don't know if that is the same at other T14's.

Yea, at Michigan, career services has been telling 1Ls that this past OCI ~2/3's of those participating got offers, up from less than 50% in recent years. I'm not sure what percentage of the class participates, but even assuming 75%, that's a significant bump from what this data is reporting.

I would also point out that I personally already know a lot of 1Ls focused on very small markets, and I think the point already made is true that people from rural/small urban areas who want to go to a T10 school are attracted to Michigan's a) small town atmosphere, as well as b) its relative proximity to the midwest and reach to the west, and many of them end up going back to their home markets to firms that are not among the 250 largest in the country. Sure, this number is probably small as it affects the numbers, but compared to somewhere like Penn I think it might actually make a bit of a difference.

These posts are encouraging because they run counter to the recent NALP report indicating that this past recruiting season was actually slightly weaker than the previous one: http://www.nalp.org/uploads/Perspective ... uiting.pdf

Overall recruiting could be down with the t10 generally (or just specific schools) seeing a boost. It'd be consistent with the general pattern of OCI ITE.

[law2015]

FWIW, CSO told the 1L's that this past OCI has been the best since the recession. I don't know if that is the same at other T14's.

Yea, at Michigan, career services has been telling 1Ls that this past OCI ~2/3's of those participating got offers, up from less than 50% in recent years. I'm not sure what percentage of the class participates, but even assuming 75%, that's a significant bump from what this data is reporting.

I would also point out that I personally already know a lot of 1Ls focused on very small markets, and I think the point already made is true that people from rural/small urban areas who want to go to a T10 school are attracted to Michigan's a) small town atmosphere, as well as b) its relative proximity to the midwest and reach to the west, and many of them end up going back to their home markets to firms that are not among the 250 largest in the country. Sure, this number is probably small as it affects the numbers, but compared to somewhere like Penn I think it might actually make a bit of a difference.

These posts are encouraging because they run counter to the recent NALP report indicating that this past recruiting season was actually slightly weaker than the previous one: http://www.nalp.org/uploads/Perspective ... uiting.pdf

The NLJ numbers for class of 2012 reflect the legal market back in 2010 when they did OCI. I think most likely, this year was even better than it was for class of 2012.

[Robespierre]

The NLJ numbers for class of 2012 reflect the legal market back in 2010 when they did OCI. I think most likely, this year was even better than it was for class of 2012.

Well, that's the issue. I hope you're right. NALP says Fall 2012 recruiting was actually just about as weak as Fall 2010 recruiting. But who knows if they got it right. And, as TemporarySaint says, NALP's overall conclusions may not apply to T10s (or T6s or T14s or whatever) specifically.

[law2015]

I am surprised nobody yet made a chart using both the most recent nlj and AIII numbers and maybe comparing it to last year's data.

[rad lulz]

I am surprised nobody yet made a chart using both the most recent nlj and AIII numbers and maybe comparing it to last year's data.

We don't have AIII numbers yet

[SportsFan]

For those unfamiliar, UVA's system is 75% preselect and 25% lottery. This past year, a student was capped at being able to accept 23 interviews, but in the past that number has varied. Most of the class winds up with 15 or more interviews. There are some legitimate pros and cons to the system. However, the best place to draw inferences is with the employment stats. This data indicates that it probably doesn't matter much either way. Michigan's pure lottery system hasn't resulted in better employment numbers. Boalt has similar stats with a lottery and a confusing grading system. Cornell's numbers are about the same in this data.

FWIW, CSO told the 1L's that this past OCI has been the best since the recession. I don't know if that is the same at other T14's.

Just from everything I've read here, seems like C/O 2014 OCI was a bit worse than 2012 and 2013 at Penn because Philly contracted.

[09042014]

I wouldn't go by "secrete CSO" or general "it felt better" bullshit. It's not very accurate, and is often juked.

[Bildungsroman]

Wow the legal market is garbage.

[izy223]

I think we should redo this thread with the new numbers

NLJ Placement for C/O 2013
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... ctive=true

[Bildungsroman]

I think we should redo this thread with the new numbers

NLJ Placement for C/O 2013
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... ctive=true

Wow, so impressive they've got the 9-month employment stat for a class that's still 3 months away from graduating.

[JCougar]

This is not actually true. I mean I'm sure firms DO take below median students, but that figure doesn't necessarily imply that.

practically, i think it does.

yea, wut????, how does that mean they don't dip below median?

the idea is that it's a positively skewed normal distribution. see champagnepapi, supra. but, 70% may be a bit high to not dip below.

There is an assload of fail re: statistics in this thread. Median, by definition, is 50% of the class. Unless people's GPAs fall into clumps and there is about 30% of the class exactly tied for median, then firms are dipping below median to hire people.

A positively skewed normal distribution does not change the percentage above median. It changes the MEAN, however. But no one cares about GPA mean.

[Crowing]

There is an assload of fail re: statistics in this thread. Median, by definition, is 50% of the class. Unless people's GPAs fall into clumps and there is about 30% of the class exactly tied for median, then firms are dipping below median to hire people.

A positively skewed normal distribution does not change the percentage above median. It changes the MEAN, however. But no one cares about GPA mean.

Whoever said it was a skewed distribution is wrong about that changing the median, yeah. But the rest of us are talking about clumping.

[NoodleyOne]

To be clear, the NLJ 250 does not encompass all Biglaw (100+, or maybe even 51+), correct?

[06102016]

..

[Lasers]

To be clear, the NLJ 250 does not encompass all Biglaw (100+, or maybe even 51+), correct?

This seems like a good question.

depends on your definition of biglaw.

some would argue the nlj250 is overinclusive in defining biglaw.

[Aberzombie1892]

There is no universally accepted definition of big law, as most subjective cut offs for firms included will include some undesirable firms while excluding other desirable firms. The NLJ is probably the best measure that includes as many desirable firms as possible while excluding as many undesirable firms as possible.

[rad lulz]

To be clear, the NLJ 250 does not encompass all Biglaw (100+, or maybe even 51+), correct?

This seems like a good question.

0Ls usually mean "firms that pay a lot of money"

[NoodleyOne]

To be clear, the NLJ 250 does not encompass all Biglaw (100+, or maybe even 51+), correct?

This seems like a good question.

0Ls usually mean "firms that pay a lot of money"

Pretty much. Or maybe more accurately firms that make paying down six figures of debt a possibility.

[AllTheLawz]

To be clear, the NLJ 250 does not encompass all Biglaw (100+, or maybe even 51+), correct?

This seems like a good question.

depends on your definition of biglaw.

some would argue the nlj250 is overinclusive in defining biglaw.

Yep. NLJ250 covers most but there are a few NLJ 350 (http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2548523777) that many would consider more desirable than even a portion of the V100.