From a current GW student- do not go to this school. Forum

[Big Shrimpin]

That's why I would also be wary of going to any of the schools quoted above at sticker and PLANNING on BigLaw to pay it off, can be a horrible idea.

True, even with a biglaw gig lined up, the payoff scenario is scary.

[LeBronBBall]

Did he go to GW at sticker?

Not sure never asked. I do know that he ain't attending with full ride or big scholarship money. He told me he paid for 1L year with his savings + loans.

[LeBronBBall]

my bud at GWU was just outside top third, and got like only one screener at OCI. This is like beyond brutal. outside of top third at GWU is a decent credential in my view, and he didn't even get first round interviews..? from this, i guess we can conclude that the majority of kids at GWU are screwed regardless, and top 20% will likely to be fine. my friend is almost border-line suicidal now, and he is kicking himself for leaving his former job to come to law school. (IT consulting at a second tier consulting boutique firm for 60k salary)

Sorry about your buddy. I don't know much about 2L OCI this past year (even as a 3L, myself and other IP peeps were getting screeners), but it doesn't sound like it was good.

TBF, the bloodshed at many of these marginally-decent schools (e.g. WUSTL, GW, Fordham, BU/BC, etc.) shouldn't be that surprising to anyone--especially current 1Ls and 2Ls. It's not 2005/2006/2007 anymore. Big firm hiring will likely never completely revert to the way it was before the economy bottomed-out because firms now have to take a more prudential, forward-looking approach towards hiring for their summer classes. Sure, the big firms are gonna stay leveraged, but everyone now knows that the leverage model is subject to serious paring in downtimes. Thus, you've seen firms slash class sizes, etc. (see also Blindmelon's post, supra).

Schools like GW, etc., sent a ton of doods into biglaw (someone pull up that 06/07 chart where it was like around 40%) in the boomtimes. Boomtimes are over, firms have cut back, and it shouldn't be too surprising that the hiring committee for [insert your favorite biglaw firm here] has slashed the number of interview slots they're giving at schools like GW. To be sure, you're still going to see GW do better, comparatively, than your American/UMD/GMUs of the world (that analogy extends also to other schools and their lower-tier counterparts). But overall, it shouldn't be too surprising, given the state of the economy, that GW (and by extension other firms, albeit not in the exact same percentages) sends like 20-25% into biglaw...not to mention the fact that OCI is often a FEAST for IP dooders at most schools.

Again, sorry about your bro, I don't mean to disparage his/her position. But for future readers--do your homework before you matriculate at ANY school. USNWR is not sufficient nor necessary to making an informed decision on where to go to LS. Don't be surprised if you go to a T20 school and get shot down during OCI. An informed decision includes not only data analysis, but also expectation management. You can't expect to go to GW (or Fordham, WUSTL, etc.) and get a biglaw gig--so manage your expectations and take calculated risk. That way, if you fail, you won't (or shouldn't) be so surprised.

I agree. From your analysis, it seems another question to ask yourself is if you are IP or not before attending law school. Does having IP credentials really make that much of a difference for biglaw recruiting? Subtracting IP folks, I guess many humanities kids are out of luck at OCI outside T-14 unless they crack top 10% rank, at places such as GWU, BC, or BU. My bud studied finance/ accounting at a good state university and had 2 years of work experience in IT consulting prior to law school, with around top 35% class rank at GWU. If my memory serves correct, he exactly had ONE BigLaw interview at OCI and didn't get any callback. He was so depressed that last time I talked to him via phone, he had taken a dozen shots of Vodka and talking about how he wasn't sure if he would be able to marry his girlfriend and raise his family with his future job and income.

If my friend struggled this much at OCI, just figure how the bottom 50% of class at George Washington did... This just means that these folks were better off not going to law school at all in the first place.

[buttonpusher]

If my memory serves correct, he exactly had ONE BigLaw interview at OCI and didn't get any callback. He was so depressed that last time I talked to him via phone, he had taken a dozen shots of Vodka and talking about how he wasn't sure if he would be able to marry his girlfriend and raise his family with his future job and income.

He's going to be even more depressed when he takes a seat in the doc review bullpen at $30 an hour. This project actually sounds decent though:

--LinkRemoved--

If it really lasted a year it would be 62 K, but factor a few days lost for being sick and/or personal issues etc. and you're likely looking at about 60 K. If you decide to buy health insurance for yourself, it's more like 52 K. Still light years more $$$ than any shitlaw office is gonna pay a newbie from a mediocre school like GW.

[NYC Law]

If my memory serves correct, he exactly had ONE BigLaw interview at OCI and didn't get any callback. He was so depressed that last time I talked to him via phone, he had taken a dozen shots of Vodka and talking about how he wasn't sure if he would be able to marry his girlfriend and raise his family with his future job and income.

He's going to be even more depressed when he takes a seat in the doc review bullpen at $30 an hour. This project actually sounds decent though:

--LinkRemoved--

If it really lasted a year it would be 62 K, but factor a few days lost for being sick and/or personal issues etc. and you're likely looking at about 60 K. If you decide to buy health insurance for yourself, it's more like 52 K. Still light years more $$$ than any shitlaw office is gonna pay a newbie from a mediocre school like GW.

I see areyouinsane is making a comeback.

[LeBronBBall]

If my memory serves correct, he exactly had ONE BigLaw interview at OCI and didn't get any callback. He was so depressed that last time I talked to him via phone, he had taken a dozen shots of Vodka and talking about how he wasn't sure if he would be able to marry his girlfriend and raise his family with his future job and income.

He's going to be even more depressed when he takes a seat in the doc review bullpen at $30 an hour. This project actually sounds decent though:

--LinkRemoved--

If it really lasted a year it would be 62 K, but factor a few days lost for being sick and/or personal issues etc. and you're likely looking at about 60 K. If you decide to buy health insurance for yourself, it's more like 52 K. Still light years more $$$ than any shitlaw office is gonna pay a newbie from a mediocre school like GW.

Well, since my friend had 2 years of consulting experience, maybe he could leverage that to go back to that industry or go back to his ex-employer. I don't know what his immediate plans will be, but i am afraid it ain't looking so rosy at this point.

Also, the more i learn about it, the more i think that law sucks. shitlaw is a joke, and there are many people who would make much more money than many non-biglaw lawyers make straight out of college, or even high school. what an absolute joke the field of law has become.

[Big Shrimpin]

If my memory serves correct, he exactly had ONE BigLaw interview at OCI and didn't get any callback. He was so depressed that last time I talked to him via phone, he had taken a dozen shots of Vodka and talking about how he wasn't sure if he would be able to marry his girlfriend and raise his family with his future job and income.

He's going to be even more depressed when he takes a seat in the doc review bullpen at $30 an hour. This project actually sounds decent though:

--LinkRemoved--

If it really lasted a year it would be 62 K, but factor a few days lost for being sick and/or personal issues etc. and you're likely looking at about 60 K. If you decide to buy health insurance for yourself, it's more like 52 K. Still light years more $$$ than any shitlaw office is gonna pay a newbie from a mediocre school like GW.

I know he trollin', but considering the circumstances, this is classless rubbish and contributes nothing to this thread. Mods, can we ban this worthless bottom-feeder?

@lebron - I hope your buddy's situation works out. Be supportive, suggest he continue to cast that net, etc.

[sky7]

As a current GW student, here's my two cents:

Right now, if you aren't IP, and you can't get into the T-14, you better have a full ride, no matter where you go.

That said, if you are IP (specifically patent), GW is like a silver bullet for slaying the big bad economy.

It is not 2007 any longer.

[CanadianWolf]

Isn't a top 15% class rank at most, or all, tier one law schools outside of the T-14 sufficient for OCI opportunities ? Maybe even top 20% ? Curious as to what posters are experiencing during OCI at non-T-14 law schools.

[dudders]

Isn't a top 15% class rank at most, or all, Tier One law schools outside of the T-14 sufficient for OCI opportunities ? Maybe even top 20% ? Curious as to what posters are experiencing during OCI at non-T-14 law schools.

to be all LSAT about it, top 15% at GW is necessary but not sufficient.

[sky7]

I dunno - I think that probably 25% of people have a good firm job lined up. It isn't nearly what it once was, but if you have excellent grades, you'll be fine.

But to the 0L's out there - being in the top 25% in law school is a lot harder than doing it in undergrad.

[REALLYBIGLAW]

Isn't a top 15% class rank at most, or all, Tier One law schools outside of the T-14 sufficient for OCI opportunities ? Maybe even top 20% ? Curious as to what posters are experiencing during OCI at non-T-14 law schools.

Are you willing to risk $225,000 on a 1 in 5 shot for OCI opportunities?

$75,000 per year at GW Law School.
--LinkRemoved--

[LeBronBBall]

Isn't a top 15% class rank at most, or all, Tier One law schools outside of the T-14 sufficient for OCI opportunities ? Maybe even top 20% ? Curious as to what posters are experiencing during OCI at non-T-14 law schools.

Are you willing to risk $225,000 on a 1 in 5 shot for OCI opportunities?

$75,000 per year at GW Law School.
--LinkRemoved--

Why the fuck is law school tuition so expensive.. can't believe a year of law school tuition costs more than a Porsche Boxter. This is NUTS!!!

[JusticeHarlan]

Isn't a top 15% class rank at most, or all, Tier One law schools outside of the T-14 sufficient for OCI opportunities ? Maybe even top 20% ? Curious as to what posters are experiencing during OCI at non-T-14 law schools.

Are you willing to risk $225,000 on a 1 in 5 shot for OCI opportunities?

$75,000 per year at GW Law School.
--LinkRemoved--

Why the fuck is law school tuition so expensive.. can't believe a year of law school tuition costs more than a Porsche Boxter. This is NUTS!!!

Well, "only" 45K of that is tuition. They budget 18k for cost of living in DC, the rest for books and such.

So, I guess the question is: why does law school tuition cost as much as a BMW 3 Series convertible?

[Veyron]

Isn't a top 15% class rank at most, or all, Tier One law schools outside of the T-14 sufficient for OCI opportunities ? Maybe even top 20% ? Curious as to what posters are experiencing during OCI at non-T-14 law schools.

Are you willing to risk $225,000 on a 1 in 5 shot for OCI opportunities?

$75,000 per year at GW Law School.
--LinkRemoved--

Why the fuck is law school tuition so expensive.. can't believe a year of law school tuition costs more than a Porsche Boxter. This is NUTS!!!

Federal loans distort the market brah.

[LeBronBBall]

Isn't a top 15% class rank at most, or all, Tier One law schools outside of the T-14 sufficient for OCI opportunities ? Maybe even top 20% ? Curious as to what posters are experiencing during OCI at non-T-14 law schools.

Are you willing to risk $225,000 on a 1 in 5 shot for OCI opportunities?

$75,000 per year at GW Law School.
--LinkRemoved--

Why the fuck is law school tuition so expensive.. can't believe a year of law school tuition costs more than a Porsche Boxter. This is NUTS!!!

Well, "only" 45K of that is tuition. They budget 18k for cost of living in DC, the rest for books and such.

So, I guess the question is: why does law school tuition cost as much as a BMW 3 Series convertible?

Well, you'd be buying 3 different BMW 3 series for three years, basically. Or, you would be buying a Porsche 911 Turbocharged car for the same price of law school tuition for all three years.

Seriously tho, I think that law school admin people who are in charge of determining tuition need to be jailed for scamming students hard, and screwing with their future.

Law schools should NOT cost this much: at law schools, it just takes a professor in front of a class with like 400 people to lecture. no labs, no clinics, no expensive shit involved when educating law students. I could understand medical school or dental school that charge 50k per year. law school? Shame on them, and the people responsible for charging this much tuition need to get sued and examined.

I don't care if it's Harvard or Yale Law. Even these schools shouldn't cost 60-70k a year to attend. this is just fucking ridiculous.

[PDaddy]

Seriously, what kind of person brags about how rich they are online?

1) People with a lot of money, who want to feel important about it?
2) People with no money who want others to think they have a lot of money?

1) People with a lot of money who want to feel important about it, even though they did absolutely nothing to earn it themselves;
2) People who inherit a lot of money but who know they will never accomplish enough to earn it themselves;
3) People with no money who wish they had a lot of money, but who want others to think they have a lot of money, knowing they will never actually earn it...

[WSJ_Law]

Could it be he is a person with medium amounts of money just trying to agitate other posters?

[nickwar]

Isn't a top 15% class rank at most, or all, Tier One law schools outside of the T-14 sufficient for OCI opportunities ? Maybe even top 20% ? Curious as to what posters are experiencing during OCI at non-T-14 law schools.

Are you willing to risk $225,000 on a 1 in 5 shot for OCI opportunities?

$75,000 per year at GW Law School.
--LinkRemoved--

Why the fuck is law school tuition so expensive.. can't believe a year of law school tuition costs more than a Porsche Boxter. This is NUTS!!!

A year of law school doesn't cost nearly as much as a Porsche Boxter if you make decent decisions about where to attend. We all knew (or should have known) what we were in for when the economy tanked in 2007/2008. Paying sticker to attend a law school on the bubble in one of the most expensive cities in the US was probably a bad idea even in the golden years.

Not to be an asshole, but they're going to keep charging $45k/year as long as suckers will keep paying it. For any 0Ls here -- take the scholarship at the slightly lower school over the slightly more prestigious school on the downswing.

This current system has to change. Paying $200k+ to go to law school with the sole drive of working big law is completely flawed.

[kcirdor01]

It is hard to read the initial post and sit back and not say something. I don't really post much on TLS, but I look at this site from time to time. This was on the main feed the other day, and I wanted to address a few things when I had some time. This rant is for both future and current students.

1) I am a transfer (as you can tell from my username), and I think I can provide good insight because of this. My old school was around T50, and I think/thought it was decently well respected. You should hear the horror stories from my old classmates about how their OCI went and how the job search is going for current 3Ls. The legal market sucks. Get over it. This is the world we live in, and it is bad for every school. I knew that before I went to law school, and you should have known that too. Oh, and please do not get me started on my old school’s CSO. I haven’t visited GW’s, but wow my old school’s CSO was a joke. I have heard most school’s CSOs aren’t really great. It is up to you, I guess.
2) Going to any school does not guarantee you Big Law. U of Chicago places the most people (percentage wise – I will come back to this) in NLJ 250 according to LST. Yet, over 40% there do not get Big Law. Further, I know countless people at way better schools than GW without Big Law. Not everyone can get Big Law. Did this student really think everyone should get Big Law and everyone he/she knows should get Big Law at a T20? Let’s be real.
3) I am confused why GW is a target for this student. Do not be mad for your failed research. GW's Big Law placement is commensurate with its ranking. Only BC, BU, and Fordham do better of the lower ranked schools. Those are all good schools who could easily be ranked above GW if the rankings were not such BS. It is not like you have American U placing more in Big Law than GW. Oh wait, American didn't even make the top 50 in Big Law placement. It is not like GW is a T14. GW basically places like its ranking should place (20th v. 22nd). Maybe this student thought he/she was attending a T5.
4) GW places a LOT of students in Big Law. Let’s not just look at the percentages. According to LST, GW places more students in Big Law than every school in America (9th overall) except for GTown, Michigan, NYU, Berk, UVA, Harvard, UPenn, and Columbia. I think the fact that firms are willing to take such a large number of GW kids is actually pretty impressive. That is a lot of students with GW on their resumes entering Big Law. Sure, GW has a lot of students but firms don’t care how many students your school has. The fact is that firms are willing to hire a lot of GW students into Big Law. This must say at least something about the school’s reputation.
4) Big Law is a special beast. Big Law is business. Because of this, grades and journal do not tell the whole story. Someone who shows special qualities can get Big Law (if you don’t know what these are, I can’t help you). This poster seems like a jerk. I am not surprised Big Law didn't want him. He/she would not be fun to work with. Someone mentioned a good amount of their buddies from the softball tournament got Big Law. I am not surprised. Those people are probably cool and would be a blast to work with, in addition to being smart and hard working. Poster would probably be the guy complaining he was called out on strike three looking and he deserves a fourth strike instead of just enjoying the game.
5) As I say with any profession, professional school, or anything in life really, for every bad story there is a good story. One person’s experience should not dissuade you. But you should go in with open eyes and reservations, unlike poster.
6) At my old school, I hated some professors (One in particular. Seriously, this guy was a prick). I also had some great ones. It is the same at GW. Some professors are wonderful, others stink. Professors don’t get hired for teaching skills at any law school and that should be considered a fact. Further, I don’t care about the professors. I came to law school to get a job, not play footsy or became buddies with professors. Is every client going to be a joy to work with? I think not.
7) I have Big Law lined up. I won’t get into particulars because I would be known pretty easily if someone read this thread. All I will say is that my grades from my old school are not deserving of Big Law. But I have other qualities that made me attractive (I am assuming). No I am not a URM. At the end of the day, GW got my foot in the door. We had an enormous OCI compared to my old school and compared with my friends at similarly ranked schools. GW will not get you a job, no school will. If you are weird, can’t dress well, can’t interview well, are not polite, etc., you better be top 5% and on the GW Law Review. If you don’t have persistence, if you don’t want to do whatever it takes to get big law, if you think it should be handed to you, you won’t get big law. GW did, however, get my foot in the right doors. I did the rest. I created my own luck. (I am not IP, by the way. And I have no work experience except for the clothing store I worked at in high school.)
If you attend GW, you ARE attending a T20. It is not over ranked. It is not over rated. It is a T20. Look at the hard numbers. Compare it with similarly ranked schools. Compare it with higher ranked schools. Compare it with lower ranked schools. It is a T20. Not a T5 and not a T50. Every school is pretty much getting the screws right now. It is just the way it is. If you want to be guaranteed a big pay out after law school, don’t go to law school because it is not guaranteed no matter where you go.
9) I probably did not cover everything. That is OK. I do not have the time. But I did write a lot, and I have finals to worry about and other stuff to do (as we all do). I will not sit here and say GW is perfect. It is far from it. Most schools probably are far from it as well. I haven’t even been here long enough to give a legitimate appraisal of the school. But this poster is a jerk, and I take offense to his post. I can’t just sit back and let him ream GW for future students to read. Every school is overpriced. No school guarantees a job. Every school has a few or many horrible professors. Not every school places in Big Law. Get over it. Instead of whining on some thread, do something about your situation. GW gives you very good opportunities. You have to seize them yourself.

+1

[HeavenWood]

This thread needed to be bumped.

[20130312]

+1

WHAT A VALUABLE CONTRIBUTION TO OUR FORUM.

[uh1999]

GW, GULC or any law school is a diploma mill?

Man, now, I have heard it all...lol.

[vanwinkle]

+1