Class of 2012 Employment Data Forum

[NoodleyOne]

Pretty sure NW is going to be about 15% less than that.

They got 51.43% in the NLJ 250 so that would be quite the shocker. Or the stunner.

NLJ missed 15 graduates from the denominator.

145/295 at firms of 100+ = 49.2%
19/295 federal clerkships = 6.4%
Total of 55.6%

Pretty disappointing.

Wow...

[20141023]

.

[Teflon_Don]

I think Columbia is up

[M458]

Berkeley wasn't too hot either:

Federal Clerkships: 6.7% (21/312)
Firms (101+): 53.8% (168/312)
Total: 60.5% (189/312)

Still about a 10% increase over 2011 though. NU was the only school in the T-14 to see a decrease.

[BigZuck]

In b4 NU and Berkeley post shamefully low numbers on par with GULC and we all start calling it the T11.

So NU isn't the juggernaut we all thought it was? Also I'll just stick to T12.

[HankBashir]

NU has been letting in more students with less WE. Maybe that's a cause of its "decline"?

[ph5354a]

Sorry to ask such a noob question --what was the OP data based on if the ABA data was just released?

[Bronck]

Sorry to ask such a noob question --what was the OP data based on if the ABA data was just released?

The ABA data, because schools self-reported them earlier

[ph5354a]

Sorry to ask such a noob question --what was the OP data based on if the ABA data was just released?

The ABA data, because schools self-reported them earlier

Ah gotcha, thanks!

[SportsFan]

NU has been letting in more students with less WE. Maybe that's a cause of its "decline"?

Hasn't that only really been this cycle and last, though? Wouldn't affect the class of 2012 numbers at all.

[TexasAggie13]

NU has been letting in more students with less WE. Maybe that's a cause of its "decline"?

Hasn't that only really been this cycle and last, though? Wouldn't affect the class of 2012 numbers at all.

I think this is correct. Hard to say what the drop was caused by, but I don't think students with lack of WE is the cause.

NU is about to cut its class size by about 10%, hopefully that should help bring #'s up.

[sinfiery]

Even with NYUs 17% increase in biglaw, their school funded rate seems to be the same. I wish we had historical data for all these data points.

[bowser]

People shouldn't over-react to these things. It's entirely possible NU staying the same was just luck. That, and a combination of just not having a horrific year in 2011.

If two years' worth of stats is all you have to go on everyone who gets into Penn should go.

[Rahviveh]

So JNSL what happened to NW? The NJL figures were just wrong? I wonder if they'll post a correction

[sinfiery]

NLJ missed 15 graduates from the denominator.

[SportsFan]

Even with NYUs 17% increase in biglaw, their school funded rate seems to be the same. I wish we had historical data for all these data points.

I've seen employment data for the T14 collected back to at least C/O 08, and maybe even 07 on TLS before, though I wouldn't even know what thread to go in to find it. Its pretty depressing to see the employment bar graphs just fall off a cliff during the recession.

On a similar note, ITE I think the bottom ~10-15% of every T14 class (outside of HYS) is gonna be screwed when looking for "desirable" employment because A3 clerkships are out, and they'll be below GPA cutoffs for most firms. Obviously I don't really have any hard data to support this, but if you look at the "underemployment" charts, the lowest schools (SLS, CLS, Penn) are all at about 15-16% with a bunch of others in the 20-25% range. Before the recession, my understanding is basically everyone who wanted biglaw could get it. ITE, even at the best schools, my theory/guess is that while the top 1/3 of the class is still secure and median may do ok, its the bottom 10-15% of every T14 class thats pretty much screwed, and who knows if that'll change any time soon when there are still a lot of median kids without "desirable" employment.

[TheColonel]

On a similar note, ITE I think the bottom ~10-15% of every T14 class (outside of HYS) is gonna be screwed when looking for "desirable" employment because A3 clerkships are out, and they'll be below GPA cutoffs for most firms. Obviously I don't really have any hard data to support this, but if you look at the "underemployment" charts, the lowest schools (SLS, CLS, Penn) are all at about 15-16% with a bunch of others in the 20-25% range. Before the recession, my understanding is basically everyone who wanted biglaw could get it. ITE, even at the best schools, my theory/guess is that while the top 1/3 of the class is still secure and median may do ok, its the bottom 10-15% of every T14 class thats pretty much screwed, and who knows if that'll change any time soon when there are still a lot of median kids without "desirable" employment.

I wonder about this myself. I have a theory that the 10-15% without good outcomes are from anywhere below median and they get unlucky/interview poorly/had bad work experience. I'd like to see job outcomes by decile of the class.

[bowser]

At the height of the boom if you applied the 100 firm+fed clerk data to T-14, you'd be getting ~75%, with a few over 80%. That was probably somewhat inflated from a "normal" year.

[SportsFan]

On a similar note, ITE I think the bottom ~10-15% of every T14 class (outside of HYS) is gonna be screwed when looking for "desirable" employment because A3 clerkships are out, and they'll be below GPA cutoffs for most firms. Obviously I don't really have any hard data to support this, but if you look at the "underemployment" charts, the lowest schools (SLS, CLS, Penn) are all at about 15-16% with a bunch of others in the 20-25% range. Before the recession, my understanding is basically everyone who wanted biglaw could get it. ITE, even at the best schools, my theory/guess is that while the top 1/3 of the class is still secure and median may do ok, its the bottom 10-15% of every T14 class thats pretty much screwed, and who knows if that'll change any time soon when there are still a lot of median kids without "desirable" employment.

I wonder about this myself. I have a theory that the 10-15% without good outcomes are from anywhere below median and they get unlucky/interview poorly/had bad work experience. I'd like to see job outcomes by decile of the class.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, its not only the bottom 10% thats pretty much screwed so matter what, but they're not getting desirable employment ITE, while they definitely could before the recession.

[Betharl]

NU put 13 in gov and 13 in public interest in 2012 compared to 8 in gov and 5 in public interest in 2011. It also had 35 in long-term business positions in 2012 compared to 25 in 2011. Class of 2012 was bigger by 8 grads. Maybe more people self selecting out of big law? I wish they had more reporting salaries that went into business, it's almost 12% of the class, more than at most schools, but with only about half reporting salaries its tough to judge the quality of those jobs.

[TexasAggie13]

NU put 13 in gov and 13 in public interest in 2012 compared to 8 in gov and 5 in public interest in 2011. It also had 35 in long-term business positions in 2012 compared to 25 in 2011. Class of 2012 was bigger by 8 grads. Maybe more people self selecting out of big law? I wish they had more reporting salaries that went into business, it's almost 12% of the class, more than at most schools, but with only about half reporting salaries its tough to judge the quality of those jobs.

Was thinking the same thing earlier. According to ABA, out of NU's grads in business and industry 28 are "JD Advantage" and 2 are just in "Professional Positions". Impossible to know if they took these jobs because they didn't want to mess with big law or if they were at the bottom of the GPA barrel and had no other viable options.

At the risk of being overly positive I think at least a decent chunk of their business and industry grads self selected out of big law. Northwestern has strong business ties and Chicago is a huge city with a lot of jobs and opportunities. Just seems to make a bit more sense when every other school in the T14 has "better" employment outcomes for their grads in comparison to last year.

[TexasAggie13]

NU put 13 in gov and 13 in public interest in 2012 compared to 8 in gov and 5 in public interest in 2011. It also had 35 in long-term business positions in 2012 compared to 25 in 2011. Class of 2012 was bigger by 8 grads. Maybe more people self selecting out of big law? I wish they had more reporting salaries that went into business, it's almost 12% of the class, more than at most schools, but with only about half reporting salaries its tough to judge the quality of those jobs.

Was thinking the same thing earlier. According to ABA, out of NU's grads in business and industry 28 are "JD Advantage" and 2 are just in "Professional Positions". Impossible to know if they took these jobs because they didn't want to mess with big law or if they were at the bottom of the GPA barrel and had no other viable options.

At the risk of being overly positive I think at least a decent chunk of their business and industry grads self selected out of big law. Northwestern has strong business ties and Chicago is a huge city with a lot of jobs and opportunities. Just seems to make a bit more sense when every other school in the T14 has "better" employment outcomes for their grads in comparison to last year.

FWIW I just checked their website and 19/35 reported their salaries and 25th percentile is 59K, median is 100K, and 75th percentile is 125K.

[Revolver066]

FWIW I just checked their website and 19/35 reported their salaries and 25th percentile is 59K, median is 100K, and 75th percentile is 125K.

thats a lot of non-reporting

[TexasAggie13]

FWIW I just checked their website and 19/35 reported their salaries and 25th percentile is 59K, median is 100K, and 75th percentile is 125K.

thats a lot of non-reporting

For sure. But of the 19 that did report the numbers aren't too bad so I think at least some of them self selected out.

[SportsFan]

FWIW I just checked their website and 19/35 reported their salaries and 25th percentile is 59K, median is 100K, and 75th percentile is 125K.

thats a lot of non-reporting

Yeah, those numbers don't seem too great. I don't know which other schools report salary percentiles, but Penn's Business/Industry category has 11/12 reporting, with $100k/$130k/$140k 25/50/75 percentiles, and a $144k mean (so 1 or 2 of those grads are really making a lot... haha).