New US News Rankings 2023-2024 Forum

[Anonymous User]

You'd be surprised, actually. I graduated HLS way above magna cum laude cutoff but wasn't interested in lit so never pursued a clerkship. I know several others who graduated magna who also went to do corp and passed on clerkships, including someone who was rank #2-10 of the whole class.

How do you have time to post on TLS when WLRK keeps you all billing 3k hours a year

she could be at cravath

If I were magna at HLS I probably would be very disappointed if I ended up at CSW

Yeah if you are top 1-2% at HLS and you decline to clerk, then I hope you either ended up at WLRK or are just a complete genius. Otherwise, you wasted way too much time studying for no benefit. WLRK is literally the only corporate firm that is selective and prestigious in the same way as litigation boutiques or DC appellate practices, which is what most top students are gunning for in my experience. Like top 1/3 at Penn can get you corporate at Cravath.

The bulk of this is right but the Penn thing is wrong lol

Penn thing is absolutely correct as of 2022 OCI
[/quote]

Top 1/4 is good enough for Cravath corporate at Mich so this is quite believable
[/quote]

Poster who made the original Penn comment. I know it's correct. WLRK is the only firm that's not obtainable from top 1/3 at Penn for corporate. And it's not even a reach to get Cravath with those grades.

[Anonymous User]

Is there really anyone that wants to clerk who would rather be median + fed soc at chicago than median + fed soc at H?

No, of course not. Harvard's the better law school

[Anonymous User]

Is there really anyone that wants to clerk who would rather be median + fed soc at chicago than median + fed soc at H?

People who are paying less for Chicago than they would have for HLS.

[Anonymous User]

They're not less ambitious, it's a totally different career path. Going straight from HLS to the tax department at DPW isn't an objectively worse outcome than someone who goes to clerk for a judge on the first circuit

It's worse in terms of your own definition of "prestige", which is largely about selectivity

I think we're learning something about the quality of HLS students in real time folks

You're putting words in mouth. It's no worse because it's the goal of that particular student. What would be worse is if that student couldn't get a clerkship, but that's not true (because it's Harvard).

I have no doubt harvard students can mostly get some state clerkship. But we can differentiate between clerkships. Obviously it is not the case that anyone who goes into tax from HLS can get a circuit clerkship

Look I mean clerkships are tough to get, but I don't doubt that hypothetical HLS DPW tax guy has as good a chance as similarly situated SLS DPW tax guy. Many people from HLS get appellate clerkships at median.

lol this convo is hilarious considering that the billionaire Joe Tsai started as a tax guy at S&C

[Anonymous User]

Is there really anyone that wants to clerk who would rather be median + fed soc at chicago than median + fed soc at H?

this is a dumb gotcha if you’re actually familiar with the Fed Soc clerkship network. At Chicago that student gets placed by Mortara, at HLS he gets a slim chance (at median) of being a Goldsmith or Manning golden boy. For better or for worse, Mortara is both able and willing to place anyone with a pulse.

[Anonymous User]

Is there really anyone that wants to clerk who would rather be median + fed soc at chicago than median + fed soc at H?

this is a dumb gotcha if you’re actually familiar with the Fed Soc clerkship network. At Chicago that student gets placed by Mortara, at HLS he gets a slim chance (at median) of being a Goldsmith or Manning golden boy. For better or for worse, Mortara is both able and willing to place anyone with a pulse.

Whoever wrote this has zero knowledge of Harvard FedSoc

[Anonymous User]

Is there really anyone that wants to clerk who would rather be median + fed soc at chicago than median + fed soc at H?

this is a dumb gotcha if you’re actually familiar with the Fed Soc clerkship network. At Chicago that student gets placed by Mortara, who’s omnipresent, at HLS he gets a slim chance (at median) of being a Goldsmith or Manning golden boy.

Former Ruby who has commented here. By now, elite lit circles recognize that Chicago is on par with Harvard, and may even give a leg up in hiring because there are far fewer of us. High/Honors Chicago vs magna Harvard? The Chicago kid is probably more impressive. They still teach actual law (relevant for lit) at Chicago and the output of the faculty is second to none. Harvard, for better or worse, is more finishing school or box checking. If going for corporate, who cares—there is no such thing as elite corp or corporate prestige. Sure WLRK if you can get it but that’s so small.

[Anonymous User]

Is there really anyone that wants to clerk who would rather be median + fed soc at chicago than median + fed soc at H?

this is a dumb gotcha if you’re actually familiar with the Fed Soc clerkship network. At Chicago that student gets placed by Mortara, at HLS he gets a slim chance (at median) of being a Goldsmith or Manning golden boy. For better or for worse, Mortara is both able and willing to place anyone with a pulse.

Whoever wrote this has zero knowledge of Harvard FedSoc

I think I have fairly good and recent knowledge—I’ve worked with HLS Fed Soc grads, helped my interns from HLS Fed Soc on the market, and been on the Fed Soc clerkship hiring side—but feel free to add any actual input you have

[Anonymous User]

Is there really anyone that wants to clerk who would rather be median + fed soc at chicago than median + fed soc at H?

this is a dumb gotcha if you’re actually familiar with the Fed Soc clerkship network. At Chicago that student gets placed by Mortara, who’s omnipresent, at HLS he gets a slim chance (at median) of being a Goldsmith or Manning golden boy.

Former Ruby who has commented here. By now, elite lit circles recognize that Chicago is on par with Harvard, and may even give a leg up in hiring because there are far fewer of us. High/Honors Chicago vs magna Harvard? The Chicago kid is probably more impressive. They still teach actual law (relevant for lit) at Chicago and the output of the faculty is second to none. Harvard, for better or worse, is more finishing school or box checking. If going for corporate, who cares—there is no such thing as elite corp or corporate prestige. Sure WLRK if you can get it but that’s so small.

I'd say it's Yale, then HLS/SLS/and Chicago, and then the others

[CondescendingLiberal]

Chicago can never be on par with SLS and HLS because it lacks the prestige. Sorry Chicago stans

[Anonymous User]

Such a funny thread. First off, people need to just accept that no one in the world outside a small cadre of Internet people would rank Chicago with Harvard. It's HYS, the T14, and everything else. Everyone knows this.

Point two: I'm telling you guys, I read a ton of TLS before law school, chose money at Georgetown over CCN, and went in with a "I need to kill it because I chose the lower ranked school" mindset. Then I was surprised to see literally everyone I knew who did OCI get biglaw, including many going to the NYC and DC V10s, and multiple people who killed 1L going to like Williams & Connolly, Cravath, etc. I get this is anecdata but in practice, I can't imagine how it would have looked any different at Columbia.

Maybe they are ending up in more prestigious clerkships? But the fact is the absolute top people at GULC are getting 2/9/DC. So maybe the difference is if you want a clerkship, but aren't like a top 5%/law review/gunner candidate - I accept that person probably fares better in the clerkship race at Columbia or Harvard.

One question I have: do you think it would be harder for me to make partner at my V20 then if I had picked a higher-ranked school? Or does no one give a shit about where you went to school by the time that decision is getting made

[Anonymous User]

Such a funny thread. First off, people need to just accept that no one in the world outside a small cadre of Internet people would rank Chicago with Harvard. It's HYS, the T14, and everything else. Everyone knows this.

Point two: I'm telling you guys, I read a ton of TLS before law school, chose money at Georgetown over CCN, and went in with a "I need to kill it because I chose the lower ranked school" mindset. Then I was surprised to see literally everyone I knew who did OCI get biglaw, including many going to the NYC and DC V10s, and multiple people who killed 1L going to like Williams & Connolly, Cravath, etc. I get this is anecdata but in practice, I can't imagine how it would have looked any different at Columbia.

Maybe they are ending up in more prestigious clerkships? But the fact is the absolute top people at GULC are getting 2/9/DC. So maybe the difference is if you want a clerkship, but aren't like a top 5%/law review/gunner candidate - I accept that person probably fares better in the clerkship race at Columbia or Harvard.

One question I have: do you think it would be harder for me to make partner at my V20 then if I had picked a higher-ranked school? Or does no one give a shit about where you went to school by the time that decision is getting made

Why do people keep putting Cravath as like a firm that indicates top of the class success. It's just a good New York firm in the line of S&C, DPW, etc... At my T14 all you needed to be was like top 1/3 or even just above median.

[Anonymous User]

Such a funny thread. First off, people need to just accept that no one in the world outside a small cadre of Internet people would rank Chicago with Harvard. It's HYS, the T14, and everything else. Everyone knows this.

Point two: I'm telling you guys, I read a ton of TLS before law school, chose money at Georgetown over CCN, and went in with a "I need to kill it because I chose the lower ranked school" mindset. Then I was surprised to see literally everyone I knew who did OCI get biglaw, including many going to the NYC and DC V10s, and multiple people who killed 1L going to like Williams & Connolly, Cravath, etc. I get this is anecdata but in practice, I can't imagine how it would have looked any different at Columbia.

Maybe they are ending up in more prestigious clerkships? But the fact is the absolute top people at GULC are getting 2/9/DC. So maybe the difference is if you want a clerkship, but aren't like a top 5%/law review/gunner candidate - I accept that person probably fares better in the clerkship race at Columbia or Harvard.

One question I have: do you think it would be harder for me to make partner at my V20 then if I had picked a higher-ranked school? Or does no one give a shit about where you went to school by the time that decision is getting made

Why do people keep putting Cravath as like a firm that indicates top of the class success. It's just a good New York firm in the line of S&C, DPW, etc... At my T14 all you needed to be was like top 1/3 or even just above median.

Because while TLS likes to dunk on it, it's probably the most prestigious firm in the United States.

[Anonymous User]

Such a funny thread. First off, people need to just accept that no one in the world outside a small cadre of Internet people would rank Chicago with Harvard. It's HYS, the T14, and everything else. Everyone knows this.

Point two: I'm telling you guys, I read a ton of TLS before law school, chose money at Georgetown over CCN, and went in with a "I need to kill it because I chose the lower ranked school" mindset. Then I was surprised to see literally everyone I knew who did OCI get biglaw, including many going to the NYC and DC V10s, and multiple people who killed 1L going to like Williams & Connolly, Cravath, etc. I get this is anecdata but in practice, I can't imagine how it would have looked any different at Columbia.

Maybe they are ending up in more prestigious clerkships? But the fact is the absolute top people at GULC are getting 2/9/DC. So maybe the difference is if you want a clerkship, but aren't like a top 5%/law review/gunner candidate - I accept that person probably fares better in the clerkship race at Columbia or Harvard.

One question I have: do you think it would be harder for me to make partner at my V20 then if I had picked a higher-ranked school? Or does no one give a shit about where you went to school by the time that decision is getting made

Why do people keep putting Cravath as like a firm that indicates top of the class success. It's just a good New York firm in the line of S&C, DPW, etc... At my T14 all you needed to be was like top 1/3 or even just above median.

Because while TLS likes to dunk on it, it's probably the most prestigious firm in the United States.

Disagree that it is the most prestigious firm in the United States, but regardless I think you are missing my point. I'm more saying that as a firm it is not indicative of top of class success. Just go to HYSCCN and get like top 40% grades and interview well. It seems pointless to try to frame Cravath as some sort of distinguishing factor between top law schools or whatever because it is just not that rare or hard of an outcome from a lot of schools.

[Anonymous User]

Such a funny thread. First off, people need to just accept that no one in the world outside a small cadre of Internet people would rank Chicago with Harvard. It's HYS, the T14, and everything else. Everyone knows this.

Point two: I'm telling you guys, I read a ton of TLS before law school, chose money at Georgetown over CCN, and went in with a "I need to kill it because I chose the lower ranked school" mindset. Then I was surprised to see literally everyone I knew who did OCI get biglaw, including many going to the NYC and DC V10s, and multiple people who killed 1L going to like Williams & Connolly, Cravath, etc. I get this is anecdata but in practice, I can't imagine how it would have looked any different at Columbia.

Maybe they are ending up in more prestigious clerkships? But the fact is the absolute top people at GULC are getting 2/9/DC. So maybe the difference is if you want a clerkship, but aren't like a top 5%/law review/gunner candidate - I accept that person probably fares better in the clerkship race at Columbia or Harvard.

One question I have: do you think it would be harder for me to make partner at my V20 then if I had picked a higher-ranked school? Or does no one give a shit about where you went to school by the time that decision is getting made

Why do people keep putting Cravath as like a firm that indicates top of the class success. It's just a good New York firm in the line of S&C, DPW, etc... At my T14 all you needed to be was like top 1/3 or even just above median.

Because while TLS likes to dunk on it, it's probably the most prestigious firm in the United States.

Disagree that it is the most prestigious firm in the United States, but regardless I think you are missing my point. I'm more saying that as a firm it is not indicative of top of class success. Just go to HYSCCN and get like top 40% grades and interview well. It seems pointless to try to frame Cravath as some sort of distinguishing factor between top law schools or whatever because it is just not that rare or hard of an outcome from a lot of schools.

I'm a different anon

[jbagelboy]

Someone kill this thread and take it out of its self-imposed misery

[Anonymous User]

Such a funny thread. First off, people need to just accept that no one in the world outside a small cadre of Internet people would rank Chicago with Harvard. It's HYS, the T14, and everything else. Everyone knows this.

Point two: I'm telling you guys, I read a ton of TLS before law school, chose money at Georgetown over CCN, and went in with a "I need to kill it because I chose the lower ranked school" mindset. Then I was surprised to see literally everyone I knew who did OCI get biglaw, including many going to the NYC and DC V10s, and multiple people who killed 1L going to like Williams & Connolly, Cravath, etc. I get this is anecdata but in practice, I can't imagine how it would have looked any different at Columbia.

Maybe they are ending up in more prestigious clerkships? But the fact is the absolute top people at GULC are getting 2/9/DC. So maybe the difference is if you want a clerkship, but aren't like a top 5%/law review/gunner candidate - I accept that person probably fares better in the clerkship race at Columbia or Harvard.

One question I have: do you think it would be harder for me to make partner at my V20 then if I had picked a higher-ranked school? Or does no one give a shit about where you went to school by the time that decision is getting made

Why do people keep putting Cravath as like a firm that indicates top of the class success. It's just a good New York firm in the line of S&C, DPW, etc... At my T14 all you needed to be was like top 1/3 or even just above median.

Because while TLS likes to dunk on it, it's probably the most prestigious firm in the United States.

Ever heard of Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz?

Btw I could be wrong, but I'm not aware of any M&A lawyer at Wachtell that went to Georgetown for law school.

[Anonymous User]

Such a funny thread. First off, people need to just accept that no one in the world outside a small cadre of Internet people would rank Chicago with Harvard. It's HYS, the T14, and everything else. Everyone knows this.

Point two: I'm telling you guys, I read a ton of TLS before law school, chose money at Georgetown over CCN, and went in with a "I need to kill it because I chose the lower ranked school" mindset. Then I was surprised to see literally everyone I knew who did OCI get biglaw, including many going to the NYC and DC V10s, and multiple people who killed 1L going to like Williams & Connolly, Cravath, etc. I get this is anecdata but in practice, I can't imagine how it would have looked any different at Columbia.

Maybe they are ending up in more prestigious clerkships? But the fact is the absolute top people at GULC are getting 2/9/DC. So maybe the difference is if you want a clerkship, but aren't like a top 5%/law review/gunner candidate - I accept that person probably fares better in the clerkship race at Columbia or Harvard.

One question I have: do you think it would be harder for me to make partner at my V20 then if I had picked a higher-ranked school? Or does no one give a shit about where you went to school by the time that decision is getting made

Why do people keep putting Cravath as like a firm that indicates top of the class success. It's just a good New York firm in the line of S&C, DPW, etc... At my T14 all you needed to be was like top 1/3 or even just above median.

Because while TLS likes to dunk on it, it's probably the most prestigious firm in the United States.

Ever heard of Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz?

Btw I could be wrong, but I'm not aware of any M&A lawyer at Wachtell that went to Georgetown for law school.

I did, it's a great M&A boutique, but I wouldn't consider it more prestigious. I wouldn't say Kellogg Hansen is better than Covington, for example

[Anonymous User]

Seems that biglaw is incredibly achievable at Georgetown, even below median. The caveat is that a higher proportion of its class ends up in generic V100/non-“elite” firms than the upper t14. Still, it does send about 80 first years to the V10 annually. Does it really deserve to be shit on for eternity? I don’t think so.

[Anonymous User]

Such a funny thread. First off, people need to just accept that no one in the world outside a small cadre of Internet people would rank Chicago with Harvard. It's HYS, the T14, and everything else. Everyone knows this.

Point two: I'm telling you guys, I read a ton of TLS before law school, chose money at Georgetown over CCN, and went in with a "I need to kill it because I chose the lower ranked school" mindset. Then I was surprised to see literally everyone I knew who did OCI get biglaw, including many going to the NYC and DC V10s, and multiple people who killed 1L going to like Williams & Connolly, Cravath, etc. I get this is anecdata but in practice, I can't imagine how it would have looked any different at Columbia.

Maybe they are ending up in more prestigious clerkships? But the fact is the absolute top people at GULC are getting 2/9/DC. So maybe the difference is if you want a clerkship, but aren't like a top 5%/law review/gunner candidate - I accept that person probably fares better in the clerkship race at Columbia or Harvard.

One question I have: do you think it would be harder for me to make partner at my V20 then if I had picked a higher-ranked school? Or does no one give a shit about where you went to school by the time that decision is getting made

Why do people keep putting Cravath as like a firm that indicates top of the class success. It's just a good New York firm in the line of S&C, DPW, etc... At my T14 all you needed to be was like top 1/3 or even just above median.

Because while TLS likes to dunk on it, it's probably the most prestigious firm in the United States.

Ever heard of Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz?

Btw I could be wrong, but I'm not aware of any M&A lawyer at Wachtell that went to Georgetown for law school.

I did, it's a great M&A boutique, but I wouldn't consider it more prestigious. I wouldn't say Kellogg Hansen is better than Covington, for example

No student wanting to go into corporate/M&A would choose Cravath over Wachtell, just as no one would choose Chicago over Harvard Law for the same price.

I don't know much about lit actually, but based on what I recall from law school days several years ago, I can't imagine anyone wanting to go into lit choosing Covington over firms like Susman, Kellogg, or even Williams & Connolly.

I just think you don't know how firms stack up. Maybe you are a law student? Back when I was in HLS, Cravath was always considered a good firm but not nearly as prestigious as the more selective firms like Wachtell or lit boutiques.

[Anonymous User]

Seems that biglaw is incredibly achievable at Georgetown, even below median. The caveat is that a higher proportion of its class ends up in generic V100/non-“elite” firms than the upper t14. Still, it does send about 80 first years to the V10 annually. Does it really deserve to be shit on for eternity? I don’t think so.

Nobody is shitting on anything. Georgetown is a fine school, but not as good as schools like Chicago or Columbia. These are just facts - just as I know that my V20 is nowhere as good as Wachtell.

[Moneytrees]

Such a funny thread. First off, people need to just accept that no one in the world outside a small cadre of Internet people would rank Chicago with Harvard. It's HYS, the T14, and everything else. Everyone knows this.

Point two: I'm telling you guys, I read a ton of TLS before law school, chose money at Georgetown over CCN, and went in with a "I need to kill it because I chose the lower ranked school" mindset. Then I was surprised to see literally everyone I knew who did OCI get biglaw, including many going to the NYC and DC V10s, and multiple people who killed 1L going to like Williams & Connolly, Cravath, etc. I get this is anecdata but in practice, I can't imagine how it would have looked any different at Columbia.

Maybe they are ending up in more prestigious clerkships? But the fact is the absolute top people at GULC are getting 2/9/DC. So maybe the difference is if you want a clerkship, but aren't like a top 5%/law review/gunner candidate - I accept that person probably fares better in the clerkship race at Columbia or Harvard.

One question I have: do you think it would be harder for me to make partner at my V20 then if I had picked a higher-ranked school? Or does no one give a shit about where you went to school by the time that decision is getting made

Why do people keep putting Cravath as like a firm that indicates top of the class success. It's just a good New York firm in the line of S&C, DPW, etc... At my T14 all you needed to be was like top 1/3 or even just above median.

Because while TLS likes to dunk on it, it's probably the most prestigious firm in the United States.

Ever heard of Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz?

Btw I could be wrong, but I'm not aware of any M&A lawyer at Wachtell that went to Georgetown for law school.

I did, it's a great M&A boutique, but I wouldn't consider it more prestigious. I wouldn't say Kellogg Hansen is better than Covington, for example

No student wanting to go into corporate/M&A would choose Cravath over Wachtell, just as no one would choose Chicago over Harvard Law for the same price.

I don't know much about lit actually, but based on what I recall from law school days several years ago, I can't imagine anyone wanting to go into lit choosing Covington over firms like Susman, Kellogg, or even Williams & Connolly.

I just think you don't know how firms stack up. Maybe you are a law student? Back when I was in HLS, Cravath was always considered a good firm but not nearly as prestigious as the more selective firms like Wachtell or lit boutiques.

Cravath is nowhere near Wachtell in terms of prestige. Cravath is just another elite firm in New York along DPW, S&C, Simpson etc.

[Anonymous User]

Such a funny thread. First off, people need to just accept that no one in the world outside a small cadre of Internet people would rank Chicago with Harvard. It's HYS, the T14, and everything else. Everyone knows this.

Point two: I'm telling you guys, I read a ton of TLS before law school, chose money at Georgetown over CCN, and went in with a "I need to kill it because I chose the lower ranked school" mindset. Then I was surprised to see literally everyone I knew who did OCI get biglaw, including many going to the NYC and DC V10s, and multiple people who killed 1L going to like Williams & Connolly, Cravath, etc. I get this is anecdata but in practice, I can't imagine how it would have looked any different at Columbia.

Maybe they are ending up in more prestigious clerkships? But the fact is the absolute top people at GULC are getting 2/9/DC. So maybe the difference is if you want a clerkship, but aren't like a top 5%/law review/gunner candidate - I accept that person probably fares better in the clerkship race at Columbia or Harvard.

One question I have: do you think it would be harder for me to make partner at my V20 then if I had picked a higher-ranked school? Or does no one give a shit about where you went to school by the time that decision is getting made

Why do people keep putting Cravath as like a firm that indicates top of the class success. It's just a good New York firm in the line of S&C, DPW, etc... At my T14 all you needed to be was like top 1/3 or even just above median.

Because while TLS likes to dunk on it, it's probably the most prestigious firm in the United States.

Ever heard of Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz?

Btw I could be wrong, but I'm not aware of any M&A lawyer at Wachtell that went to Georgetown for law school.

I did, it's a great M&A boutique, but I wouldn't consider it more prestigious. I wouldn't say Kellogg Hansen is better than Covington, for example

No student wanting to go into corporate/M&A would choose Cravath over Wachtell, just as no one would choose Chicago over Harvard Law for the same price.

I don't know much about lit actually, but based on what I recall from law school days several years ago, I can't imagine anyone wanting to go into lit choosing Covington over firms like Susman, Kellogg, or even Williams & Connolly.

I just think you don't know how firms stack up. Maybe you are a law student? Back when I was in HLS, Cravath was always considered a good firm but not nearly as prestigious as the more selective firms like Wachtell or lit boutiques.

Yeah I would definitely take Cravath over Wachtell if I had an interest in lit, Wachtell doesn't really have a strong litigation practice. In my view, the best generalist firm is better than the best firm that specializes in one discrete area of the law (same goes for Covington v. Kellogg Hansen). All my opinion, and while Vault is flawed, it is one measure of relative prestige

[Anonymous User]

Such a funny thread. First off, people need to just accept that no one in the world outside a small cadre of Internet people would rank Chicago with Harvard. It's HYS, the T14, and everything else. Everyone knows this.

Point two: I'm telling you guys, I read a ton of TLS before law school, chose money at Georgetown over CCN, and went in with a "I need to kill it because I chose the lower ranked school" mindset. Then I was surprised to see literally everyone I knew who did OCI get biglaw, including many going to the NYC and DC V10s, and multiple people who killed 1L going to like Williams & Connolly, Cravath, etc. I get this is anecdata but in practice, I can't imagine how it would have looked any different at Columbia.

Maybe they are ending up in more prestigious clerkships? But the fact is the absolute top people at GULC are getting 2/9/DC. So maybe the difference is if you want a clerkship, but aren't like a top 5%/law review/gunner candidate - I accept that person probably fares better in the clerkship race at Columbia or Harvard.

One question I have: do you think it would be harder for me to make partner at my V20 then if I had picked a higher-ranked school? Or does no one give a shit about where you went to school by the time that decision is getting made

Why do people keep putting Cravath as like a firm that indicates top of the class success. It's just a good New York firm in the line of S&C, DPW, etc... At my T14 all you needed to be was like top 1/3 or even just above median.

Because while TLS likes to dunk on it, it's probably the most prestigious firm in the United States.

Ever heard of Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz?

Btw I could be wrong, but I'm not aware of any M&A lawyer at Wachtell that went to Georgetown for law school.

I did, it's a great M&A boutique, but I wouldn't consider it more prestigious. I wouldn't say Kellogg Hansen is better than Covington, for example

No student wanting to go into corporate/M&A would choose Cravath over Wachtell, just as no one would choose Chicago over Harvard Law for the same price.

I don't know much about lit actually, but based on what I recall from law school days several years ago, I can't imagine anyone wanting to go into lit choosing Covington over firms like Susman, Kellogg, or even Williams & Connolly.

I just think you don't know how firms stack up. Maybe you are a law student? Back when I was in HLS, Cravath was always considered a good firm but not nearly as prestigious as the more selective firms like Wachtell or lit boutiques.

Yeah I would definitely take Cravath over Wachtell if I had an interest in lit, Wachtell doesn't really have a strong litigation practice. In my view, the best generalist firm is better than the best firm that specializes in one discrete area of the law (same goes for Covington v. Kellogg Hansen). All my opinion, and while Vault is flawed, it is one measure of relative prestige

Didn't I say specifically "No student wanting to go into corporate/M&A would choose Cravath over Wachtell"? Please read bro.

Even for lit, no one would choose Cravath over Wachtell. For lit, those turning down Wachtell will be turning it down to choose lit boutiques like Susman. You know Wachtell's bonus is 50~100% of your base salary. Why would anyone choose Cravath over Wachtell? Just lol.

No, Vault is not a measure of prestige. Prestige gets reflected somewhat in the Vault regional rankings. The national one is bullshit, and only the regional ones correlate somewhat with prestige. I've been practicing in NY biglaw for almost 6 years so I know.

[Anonymous User]

Why do people keep putting Cravath as like a firm that indicates top of the class success. It's just a good New York firm in the line of S&C, DPW, etc... At my T14 all you needed to be was like top 1/3 or even just above median.

Because while TLS likes to dunk on it, it's probably the most prestigious firm in the United States.

Ever heard of Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz?

Btw I could be wrong, but I'm not aware of any M&A lawyer at Wachtell that went to Georgetown for law school.

I did, it's a great M&A boutique, but I wouldn't consider it more prestigious. I wouldn't say Kellogg Hansen is better than Covington, for example

No student wanting to go into corporate/M&A would choose Cravath over Wachtell, just as no one would choose Chicago over Harvard Law for the same price.

I don't know much about lit actually, but based on what I recall from law school days several years ago, I can't imagine anyone wanting to go into lit choosing Covington over firms like Susman, Kellogg, or even Williams & Connolly.

I just think you don't know how firms stack up. Maybe you are a law student? Back when I was in HLS, Cravath was always considered a good firm but not nearly as prestigious as the more selective firms like Wachtell or lit boutiques.

Yeah I would definitely take Cravath over Wachtell if I had an interest in lit, Wachtell doesn't really have a strong litigation practice. In my view, the best generalist firm is better than the best firm that specializes in one discrete area of the law (same goes for Covington v. Kellogg Hansen). All my opinion, and while Vault is flawed, it is one measure of relative prestige

Didn't I say specifically "No student wanting to go into corporate/M&A would choose Cravath over Wachtell"? Please read bro.

Even for lit, no one would choose Cravath over Wachtell. For lit, those turning down Wachtell will be turning it down to choose lit boutiques like Susman. You know Wachtell's bonus is 50~100% of your base salary. Why would anyone choose Cravath over Wachtell? Just lol.

No, Vault is not a measure of prestige. Prestige gets reflected somewhat in the Vault regional rankings. The national one is bullshit, and only the regional ones correlate somewhat with prestige. I've been practicing in NY biglaw for almost 6 years so I know.

We practice in the same pond. I myself am not at Cravath or Wachtell, but Cravath elicits a big reaction from people. I've heard it referred to as "legendary" by very respected attorneys, for example. That seems to track with the Vault ranking (both national and for NY). People from either firm are doing okay in terms of compensation but even so I don't think money is decisive (a SCOTUS clerk is making less lol). So yeah, I think Wachtell is an amazing firm, don't get me wrong. Very strong in M&A and antitrust (though Cravath is too ofc). But add in litigation, the history, the rankings, and reputation? That's my view