WUSTL $$$ v NU @ Sticker - Resolved 6/27/14 Forum

[workaholic82]

It's Friday...

Feels good to be decided. Here's to hoping we can study together this year (in section C or D!...)

[Fiero85]

Nice bro, congrats on getting thru a tough decision. See you in the fall!

[chuckbass]

It's Friday...

Feels good to be decided. Here's to hoping we can study together this year (in section C or D!...)

Yes hooray! Also I can add you to the c/I 2017 thread

[Micdiddy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0&feature=kp

Haha, well...I'm officially a WUSTLUT. Many thanks to everyone for your advice, this community is awesome. I could not commit to $250,000.00+ in debt with all the potential pitfalls that could arise.

Good decision and good luck!

[Onomatopoeia]

It's Friday...

Feels good to be decided. Here's to hoping we can study together this year (in section C or D!...)

You're gonna kill it at wustl and be working with a uchicago/nu bro drowning in debt as u profit. Dont look back. The risk for u now is having bottom 1/3 to 1/4 grades. Basically don't slack off bc of the scholly cushion u have

[workaholic82]

Nice bro, congrats on getting thru a tough decision. See you in the fall!

Thanks man, looking forward to it

[workaholic82]

It's Friday...

Feels good to be decided. Here's to hoping we can study together this year (in section C or D!...)

Yes hooray! Also I can add you to the c/I 2017 thread

Thanks, sign me up!

[DoveBodyWash]

You will experience last minute prestige pangs. Remember to stay the course. Congrats tho

[workaholic82]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0&feature=kp

Haha, well...I'm officially a WUSTLUT. Many thanks to everyone for your advice, this community is awesome. I could not commit to $250,000.00+ in debt with all the potential pitfalls that could arise.

Good decision and good luck!

Thanks diddy... i regret missing out on that beer, but it's good to know there's good folk like you around.

[workaholic82]

It's Friday...

Feels good to be decided. Here's to hoping we can study together this year (in section C or D!...)

You're gonna kill it at wustl and be working with a uchicago/nu bro drowning in debt as u profit. Dont look back. The risk for u now is having bottom 1/3 to 1/4 grades. Basically don't slack off bc of the scholly cushion u have

Absolutely. Your advice was difference-making, thanks much!

[workaholic82]

You will experience last minute prestige pangs. Remember to stay the course. Congrats tho

No doubt, but if i kill it i can reach higher levels of prestige than NU if i go the transfer route. If not, then it isn't meant to be. I'll definitely stay the course regardless. You and other extraordinary rising 2L's are a big bonus of attending WUSTL. Thanks for your help thus far.

[03152016]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0&feature=kp

Haha, well...I'm officially a WUSTLUT. Many thanks to everyone for your advice, this community is awesome. I could not commit to $250,000.00+ in debt with all the potential pitfalls that could arise.

great call
wustl full ride is a tremendous outcome

[workaholic82]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0&feature=kp

Haha, well...I'm officially a WUSTLUT. Many thanks to everyone for your advice, this community is awesome. I could not commit to $250,000.00+ in debt with all the potential pitfalls that could arise.

great call
wustl full ride is a tremendous outcome

Thank you man. I feel like i should expect a $350.00 bill in the mail for the financial projection you made for me, but i guess this is good practice for you so you can bill mad rates later... in any event, you are awesome, thank you.

[ManoftheHour]

The thing about fucking up at WUSTL with a full ride is that you still have the chance to do something else and perhaps live okayish. If you fuck up with sticker debt, you done, son.

Congrats, OP. May the odds be in your favor.

[workaholic82]

The thing about fucking up at WUSTL with a full ride is that you still have the chance to do something else and perhaps live okayish. If you fuck up with sticker debt, you done, son.

Congrats, OP. May the odds be in your favor.

Thank you MOH, i will really try to tip the scales in my favor any way i can (without being too overly gunnerish)... Thanks for your help.

[chuckbass]

The thing about fucking up at WUSTL with a full ride is that you still have the chance to do something else and perhaps live okayish. If you fuck up with sticker debt, you done, son.

Congrats, OP. May the odds be in your favor.

Thank you MOH, i will really try to tip the scales in my favor any way i can (without being too overly gunnerish)... Thanks for your help.

I mean I think your username hints to gunner tendencies already

[Zero99]

To add one more voice, I was in a similar situation last year and went with the full ride. Haven't regretted it at all. The ability to go through school without the added pressure of debt is an amazing feeling. Just do what you have to do for biglaw, but know that you aren't fucked if it doesn't work out. Best of luck man. If the decision to take wustl doesn't feel good now, I promise it will once the year starts.

[kennethellenparcell]

Sorry what specifically are you referring to

About similar prestige, improving prospects at wash u and shot at big law anywhere above median? It just seems like your general sentiments went counter to his...

1. Lay prestige. NU has a weird cult following in Chicago. Partly cuz NU kids think it matters that they are "cooler" than the UChicago kids. Mostly because the Midwest lacks elite schools in general so NU looks better by comparison. In the northeast no one worships it like they do in Chicago. WUSTL and NU lay prestige is pretty much same at least out here. Aka they are both schools you go to when you don't get into an Ivy and too proud or poor for BU or NYU.

2. Median prospects. Depends on how you define biglaw. Almost zero chance you get 160k unless you're IP or have some kind of internal connection. But 100k+ is still doable. Biglaw in the Midwest pays less than the coastal firms. You could also get midlaw that pays decent. Yes midlaw exists. But the hiring process for those firms aren't as rigid or formal so it's harder for me to say what will happen.

OP, I think you made a great decision and you really couldn't go wrong. Both options are great to have and the amount of debt you'd have from NU is a huge consideration. However, I'd like to correct the record for people making this decision in the future. I've done the summer associate thing twice and worked in law firms (small, big and mid size) for three years before I went to law school.

1. I agree with regard to lay prestige. However, once you get into the legal community - while your work does speak for itself and the law school you went to matters less - it does still matter. People lateral so much to other firms that interviewing attorneys I've spoke to in this process say it does matter in their mind if the person went to a T14 versus a lower ranked school. The only T14s that really impress them, however, are Yale and Harvard. Not sure why Stanford wasn't on the list. I've also noticed that lots of big law firms hire from T14s because the name reflects something to their clients. Not to say that someone not from a T14 wouldn't be respected for crushing it (crushing it in any school is hard) but that is a reality, in my opinion.

2. Once you're at median, OCI depends so much on personality that someone with a 3.3 can absolutely crush it with a zillion callbacks, and someone with a 3.7 can get like 2 callbacks. Being at a T14 opens up many more doors in terms of interviewing opportunities - that is a reality. Whether or not that's worth $200,000 is up to each individual person.

[workaholic82]

The thing about fucking up at WUSTL with a full ride is that you still have the chance to do something else and perhaps live okayish. If you fuck up with sticker debt, you done, son.

Congrats, OP. May the odds be in your favor.

Thank you MOH, i will really try to tip the scales in my favor any way i can (without being too overly gunnerish)... Thanks for your help.

I mean I think your username hints to gunner tendencies already

Lol true, but it's kind of ironic because of my lack of gunnerishness to this point in my life.

[workaholic82]

To add one more voice, I was in a similar situation last year and went with the full ride. Haven't regretted it at all. The ability to go through school without the added pressure of debt is an amazing feeling. Just do what you have to do for biglaw, but know that you aren't fucked if it doesn't work out. Best of luck man. If the decision to take wustl doesn't feel good now, I promise it will once the year starts.

Thanks man, actually starting to feel good about it already.

[workaholic82]

Sorry what specifically are you referring to

About similar prestige, improving prospects at wash u and shot at big law anywhere above median? It just seems like your general sentiments went counter to his...

1. Lay prestige. NU has a weird cult following in Chicago. Partly cuz NU kids think it matters that they are "cooler" than the UChicago kids. Mostly because the Midwest lacks elite schools in general so NU looks better by comparison. In the northeast no one worships it like they do in Chicago. WUSTL and NU lay prestige is pretty much same at least out here. Aka they are both schools you go to when you don't get into an Ivy and too proud or poor for BU or NYU.

2. Median prospects. Depends on how you define biglaw. Almost zero chance you get 160k unless you're IP or have some kind of internal connection. But 100k+ is still doable. Biglaw in the Midwest pays less than the coastal firms. You could also get midlaw that pays decent. Yes midlaw exists. But the hiring process for those firms aren't as rigid or formal so it's harder for me to say what will happen.

OP, I think you made a great decision and you really couldn't go wrong. Both options are great to have and the amount of debt you'd have from NU is a huge consideration. However, I'd like to correct the record for people making this decision in the future. I've done the summer associate thing twice and worked in law firms (small, big and mid size) for three years before I went to law school.

1. I agree with regard to lay prestige. However, once you get into the legal community - while your work does speak for itself and the law school you went to matters less - it does still matter. People lateral so much to other firms that interviewing attorneys I've spoke to in this process say it does matter in their mind if the person went to a T14 versus a lower ranked school. The only T14s that really impress them, however, are Yale and Harvard. Not sure why Stanford wasn't on the list. I've also noticed that lots of big law firms hire from T14s because the name reflects something to their clients. Not to say that someone not from a T14 wouldn't be respected for crushing it (crushing it in any school is hard) but that is a reality, in my opinion.

2. Once you're at median, OCI depends so much on personality that someone with a 3.3 can absolutely crush it with a zillion callbacks, and someone with a 3.7 can get like 2 callbacks. Being at a T14 opens up many more doors in terms of interviewing opportunities - that is a reality. Whether or not that's worth $200,000 is up to each individual person.

Thanks... a bit of a drizzle on my parade, but it's not all doom and gloom... thanks for the insight.

[Informative]

The debt differential here is significant. Graduating from WUSTL with over six figures in debt is crazy. You've only got an 18% shot at biglaw, and we're not talking biglaw positions with $160k salaries. We're talking midwest biglaw outside of Chicago. I would steer clear of this option.

However, I would also steer clear of NU with 250k+ in debt. That is way too much dischargeable debt. While you'll likely get a biglaw position from NU, you are going to be handicapped for the first three years with all the debt.

You may want to look at schools ranked between these two options that offer you better scholarships...or save up some cash over a year and re-apply.

[chuckbass]

The debt differential here is significant. Graduating from WUSTL with over six figures in debt is crazy. You've only got an 18% shot at biglaw, and we're not talking biglaw positions with $160k salaries. We're talking midwest biglaw outside of Chicago. I would steer clear of this option.

However, I would also steer clear of NU with 250k+ in debt. That is way too much dischargeable debt. While you'll likely get a biglaw position from NU, you are going to be handicapped for the first three years with all the debt.

You may want to look at schools ranked between these two options that offer you better scholarships...or save up some cash over a year and re-apply.

WUSTL's biglaw placement isn't amazing, but it's not nearly as awful as what you just posted. C/O 2013 had 29% FYI.

[jbagelboy]

The debt differential here is significant. Graduating from WUSTL with over six figures in debt is crazy. You've only got an 18% shot at biglaw, and we're not talking biglaw positions with $160k salaries. We're talking midwest biglaw outside of Chicago. I would steer clear of this option.

However, I would also steer clear of NU with 250k+ in debt. That is way too much dischargeable debt. While you'll likely get a biglaw position from NU, you are going to be handicapped for the first three years with all the debt.

You may want to look at schools ranked between these two options that offer you better scholarships...or save up some cash over a year and re-apply.

As usual, you come in after a decision has been made and drop some stale wisdom that barely qualifies as 'informative'.
1) OP already has $35K in undergraduate loans, so they're only paying CoL & change at washington university. They'll graduate with substantial debt regardless of where they attend, or they'll have to start servicing the obligation immediately on a presumably part time or clerical salary. If OP wants to practice law within the next few years, this is the best way to overcome their deplorable college record.
2) OP is an extreme splitter, and has landed two of the most splitter friendly options. There just aren't schools "ranked between these two options" (not sure why you cite 'rankings') that would offer comparable scholarship to WashU or large firm employment to Northwestern. OP's only other option would be to attend a peer school to WashU with worse placement in the target market, such as Minnesota or GW, for similar (or in GW's case, more) debt. Can't see how that's an improvement.
3) Even your statements about NU display flawed analysis, but it's beside the point so I won't go into it.

In other words, your perspective ignores the facts, distorts the placement data, and gives specious, impossible advise, not to mention that OP has already made a decision.

[workaholic82]

The debt differential here is significant. Graduating from WUSTL with over six figures in debt is crazy. You've only got an 18% shot at biglaw, and we're not talking biglaw positions with $160k salaries. We're talking midwest biglaw outside of Chicago. I would steer clear of this option.

However, I would also steer clear of NU with 250k+ in debt. That is way too much dischargeable debt. While you'll likely get a biglaw position from NU, you are going to be handicapped for the first three years with all the debt.

You may want to look at schools ranked between these two options that offer you better scholarships...or save up some cash over a year and re-apply.

WUSTL's biglaw placement isn't amazing, but it's not nearly as awful as what you just posted. C/O 2013 had 29% FYI.

Thanks man. I think the truth is somewhere between your two figures, because it's true a certain percentage of that 29% is earmarked for IP and URM candidates, but i doubt it's 1/3.