Indiana Tech Law School Forum

[North]

Let's keep pushing this until we get a good number of TLS's more outspoken and ideological posters get get on board. This is a great idea -- whether Alexander agrees to it or not -- and would make a great first step towards the (IMO long needed) TLS interest group of my dreams.

[R86]

I nominate Aschup.

[I.P. Daly]

I'm not a financial guy, and I understand that the ABA places limitations on how much money a parent university can skim from a law school. Any financial people know how much revenue Indiana Tech stands to generate from opening a law school?

[howell]

Campos should offer to debate him.

I disagree. I like Campos and what he does, but TLS and its members represent the future of our profession. We have the greatest stakes in this debate and should be the ones to have it.

But why would Alexander come back to this forum at all? I see two goals in offering him a "debate":

1) Make it public, so there is the possible newsworthiness (and thus shame) of Alexander turning it down
2) Having an actual debate.

If the goal is #1, an offer from Campos would be much more likely to get picked up by news media. Anonymous people on an internet forum are less likely to get the same reaction.

If the goal is #2, good luck. Why would Alexander come back to any thread on this forum? To him, it's just the same vitriolic people starting a new thread. "Oh look we'll be nice" is unlikely to get the desired response.

Alexander is going to run from any serious discussion of the issues. If he actually thinks he's wrong, he'll keep hiding and giving non-responsive answers like he has done so far. If he actually believes in what he's doing, it's more likely he will see this all as a waste of time in having to deal with pessimistic, bitter people who won't change their minds when confronted with the "facts" that lull him to sleep at night.

[TurtlesAllTheWayDown]

--ImageRemoved--

Indiana Tech: best ditch law program in the country!

or,

"Does this shovel make me look like a dick?"

[timbs4339]

Campos should offer to debate him.

I disagree. I like Campos and what he does, but TLS and its members represent the future of our profession. We have the greatest stakes in this debate and should be the ones to have it.

But why would Alexander come back to this forum at all? I see two goals in offering him a "debate":

1) Make it public, so there is the possible newsworthiness (and thus shame) of Alexander turning it down
2) Having an actual debate.

If the goal is #1, an offer from Campos would be much more likely to get picked up by news media. Anonymous people on an internet forum are less likely to get the same reaction.

If the goal is #2, good luck. Why would Alexander come back to any thread on this forum? To him, it's just the same vitriolic people starting a new thread. "Oh look we'll be nice" is unlikely to get the desired response.

Alexander is going to run from any serious discussion of the issues. If he actually thinks he's wrong, he'll keep hiding and giving non-responsive answers like he has done so far. If he actually believes in what he's doing, it's more likely he will see this all as a waste of time in having to deal with pessimistic, bitter people who won't change their minds when confronted with the "facts" that lull him to sleep at night.

I think 1 and 2 are related. He may feel obligated to respond because it is newsworthy. The last thing you want is your new school being defined in the public eye by a bunch of online commenters.

[unc0mm0n1]

Congrats to OP. Stirred up a shitstorm with such an innocuous post.

Yeah I did! really i was just curious about the school because I got an email from them. Didnt know it would turn into this!

The TLS version of the Arab Spring.

[R86]

The last first thing you we want is your their new school being defined in the public eye by a bunch of online commenters.

Let's get this thread to that First Page Google status!

[JCougar]

Congrats to OP. Stirred up a shitstorm with such an innocuous post.

Yeah I did! really i was just curious about the school because I got an email from them. Didnt know it would turn into this!

The TLS version of the Arab Spring.

lol

[North]

Those are the goals and I think you're correct in your assessment of this. I disagree, however, with this --

If the goal is #1, an offer from Campos would be much more likely to get picked up by news media. Anonymous people on an internet forum are less likely to get the same reaction.

-- not because I think you're wrong that a challenge from Campos instead of TLS would garner more attention, but for a more ideological reason. TLS directly represents the informed professional interests of the next generation of lawyers in the United States. For the most part we've performed that role passively, waiting for other prospective law students to come to us and ask for our opinion. I think this run-in with Dean Alexander presents our community -- considering the size and informedness of our membership, the increasing attention we've attracted in our own right from the media, and our visibility to prospective students -- with an incredible opportunity to step into a more active role. We should present the our case to Dean Alexander because it sends a message that prospective law students -- the members of TLS -- are not bystanders to a debate within the established legal academic community (e.g. Law Professor at State U vs. Law Dean at Unaccredited LS), but active, concerned participants in the shaping of the future of our profession.

That's why TLS should take the lead on this. Even if it's unlikely to work out. Even if it's a pain to execute.

[timbs4339]

Those are the goals and I think you're correct in your assessment of this. I disagree, however, with this --

If the goal is #1, an offer from Campos would be much more likely to get picked up by news media. Anonymous people on an internet forum are less likely to get the same reaction.

-- not because I think you're wrong that a challenge from Campos instead of TLS would garner more attention, but for a more ideological reason. TLS directly represents the informed professional interests of the next generation of lawyers in the United States. For the most part we've performed that role passively, waiting for other prospective law students to come to us and ask for our opinion. I think this run-in with Dean Alexander presents our community -- considering the size and informedness of our membership, the increasing attention we've attracted in our own right from the media, and our visibility to prospective students -- with an incredible opportunity to step into a more active role. We should present the our case to Dean Alexander because it sends a message that prospective law students -- the members of TLS -- are not bystanders to a debate within the established legal academic community (e.g. Law Professor at State U vs. Law Dean at Unaccredited LS), but active, concerned participants in the shaping of the future of our profession.

That's why TLS should take the lead on this. Even if it's unlikely to work out.

+1,000,000

I've argued for a long time along this lines. This is OUR profession these professors and deans are playing fast and loose with. Our reputational capital they are spending whenever they jack up tuition, open a new law school, or publish some inane article with arguments that have been refuted a thousand times. They'll be long retired and pensioned and we'll be dealing with the fallout of this mess.

[TheThriller]

Damn, maybe we should write a manifesto or something

[Rahviveh]

Congrats to OP. Stirred up a shitstorm with such an innocuous post.

Yeah I did! really i was just curious about the school because I got an email from them. Didnt know it would turn into this!

The TLS version of the Arab Spring.

[071816]

Peter Alexander is even more of a scumbag than Chemerinsky.

[WanderingPondering]

So how would a 1 v 1 debate work? Obviously we can't just bombard him with questions (even ones nicely phrased), and I think it would be important to have an opportunity for both parties to offer a rebuttal, and therefore it would need to be in real time.

[unc0mm0n1]

Peter Alexander is even more of a scumbag than Chemerinsky.

At least Irvine is under the U. of California shield and is attached to a decent university. Indiana tech is just pure robbery. (UCI is just 90% robbery).

[071816]

Peter Alexander is even more of a scumbag than Chemerinsky.

At least Irvine is under the U. of California shield and is attached to a decent university. Indiana tech is just pure robbery. (UCI is just 90% robbery).

Yea pretty much.

[rad lulz]

Peter Alexander is even more of a scumbag than Chemerinsky.

At least Irvine is under the U. of California shield and is attached to a decent university. Indiana tech is just pure robbery. (UCI is just 90% robbery).

With the rising tuition at UC schools, that shield is more like a sword.

[timbs4339]

So how would a 1 v 1 debate work? Obviously we can't just bombard him with questions (even ones nicely phrased), and I think it would be important to have an opportunity for both parties to offer a rebuttal, and therefore it would need to be in real time.

I was thinking long blog style posts. TLS would start, since we've been so vocal about the school. I suspect that a real-time debate would be near impossible to get considering one party bears all the publicity risk here.

[North]

So how would a 1 v 1 debate work? Obviously we can't just bombard him with questions (even ones nicely phrased), and I think it would be important to have an opportunity for both parties to offer a rebuttal, and therefore it would need to be in real time.

I was thinking long blog style posts. TLS would start, since we've been so vocal about the school. I suspect that a real-time debate would be near impossible to get considering one party bears all the publicity risk here.

Here's the skeleton of what I had in mind:

• • A separate thread for the sole purpose of hosting the debate would need to be created.
  • - The initial post would lay out the format, rules, etc.
    - Only two posters would be allowed to post in this thread -- a designated TLSer and Dean Alexander.
    - TLS would make the opening argument, then Dean Alexander, and in turns thereafter.
    - This would NOT have to happen in real time. Participants can take a couple days or so to respond if they choose to.
  • A second thread would need to be created to serve as the filter for the TLS hivemind.
  • - ITT, the initial argument and responses to Alexander's rebuttals would be formed, proposed, and edited until fit to post in the debate thread.
    - The designated TLSer would post polished responses into the debate thread.
    - This part is especially important because it keeps the opinions of TLS crowdsourced and representative, as opposed to one lone TLSer making his argument on behalf of TLS.
  • We'd need mods on board.
  • I'm on my phone and this is a pain to type, so, while I have other suggestions, these are the ones I think are essential to this working. I'll leave it there instead of rambling.

[BlaqBella]

This thread has inspired me to apply to Indiana Tech Law School.

[Golden Bear 11]

Indiana Tech Law School = UC Irvine Law

[BlaqBella]

Indiana Tech Law School = UC Irvine Law

Really, though? No way.

UC-Irvine actually has quality professors and will be accredited soon, I thought?

[Golden Bear 11]

Indiana Tech Law School = UC Irvine Law

Really, though? No way.

UC-Irvine actually has quality professors and will be accredited soon, I thought?

Indiana doesn't need more lawyers; California doesn't need more lawyers. Irvine, as they increase their class size and big scholly money dries up is just another Hastings/Davis where most of the students are under- or unemployed

[JCougar]

Chemerinsky deserves a good amount of scorn for UC-Irvine, but keep in mind that school's first year class all went there for free. Indy Tech grads will be crippled with terrible, burdensome debt.

Now, moving forward, UC-Irvine probably contributes to the same problem of over-supply of law grads, and their most recent class will similarly be incurring horrendous amounts of debt, and probably about 40% will never work as a lawyer, so they're certainly part of the scam, too. Just not as bad as Indy Tech.