Take the money and Run; YS - CCNH? Forum

[emu42]

i'm pretty sure the 16% of harvard grads that don't fall into those categories are perfectly happy with their outcomes (even if you might not be)

I've gone back and forth on whether you're trolling or just obtuse, but now I think I've settled on trolling.

she's transitioned into some kind of low grade performance artist, but if she's ever going to be successful she needs to take it off the internet and run the alternative comedy circuit with this irredeemably obnoxious prestige whore character she's developed...otherwise it's just another shitposter taking the "I was just trolling/having a little fun because you guyz are too seriouz" exit option.

haha the prestige whore label again. i'm finding that 100% of anti-hls debates eventually result in the pro-hls poster being called a prestige whore

Are there really a lot of people with this thought process, or is it a rarity? Obviously a school like Yale, Harvard, or Stanford is going to yield good outcomes for the vast majority, but for a person to think that every single solitary person who attends a school like Harvard has a great outcome is baffling to me.

i think there is just about as high a % of people in the 84% disappointed in their outcome as there are in the 16%. that graph is just the desert fox definition of good employment

[FOM]

This thread actually kind of makes me glad I didn't get into Harvard. You two HLS dudes are unbearable

[emu42]

umad? what evidence do you have to suggest otherwise?

Oh no, I'm sure that your ASW experience was eye-opening, and that no one from HLS has ever ended up jobless or in a job they didn't want.

strawman

Is there something magical about HLS that makes them like shitlaw and underemployment? Or do you think those jobs are just better? If so why harvard, HLS isn't even close to a necessity for that. Using your logic, the 30% at Michigan should be enjoying it just as much right?

yeah, i bet a bunch of people at michigan are too. but hls is better for top pi jobs

Just to be clear, you're asking for evidence that there's one or more person who graduates from HLS per class that isn't happy with his/her outcome?

no, i'm suggesting that the metric desert fox uses doesn't apply to a lot of people's desired employment (i met people making little money doing things they cared about in jobs that were difficult to get and they were perfectly happy)

[09042014]

umad? what evidence do you have to suggest otherwise?

Oh no, I'm sure that your ASW experience was eye-opening, and that no one from HLS has ever ended up jobless or in a job they didn't want.

strawman

Is there something magical about HLS that makes them like shitlaw and underemployment? Or do you think those jobs are just better? If so why harvard, HLS isn't even close to a necessity for that. Using your logic, the 30% at Michigan should be enjoying it just as much right?

yeah, i bet a bunch of people at michigan are too. but hls is better for top pi jobs

Just to be clear, you're asking for evidence that there's one or more person who graduates from HLS per class that isn't happy with his/her outcome?

no, i'm suggesting that the metric desert fox uses doesn't apply to a lot of people's desired employment (i met people making little money doing things they cared about in jobs that were difficult to get and they were perfectly happy)

PI is in that 84%

[Princetonlaw68]

i think there is just about as high a % of people in the 84% disappointed in their outcome as there are in the 16%. that graph is just the desert fox definition of good employment

I don't know. I don't know what makes people disappointed, it's hard to quantify that. I think that we can't neglect to realize that there's certainly at least some people who go to Harvard who end up not only disappointed, as they didn't get the employment they were aiming for, but didn't get anything that would classically be considered "good" either. It's not just the percentage of people who are at all disappointed that's important. It's reasonable to consider that, but a person who is disappointed he/she didn't get to do academia and has to do big law is different from a person who is disappointed he/she didn't get to do academia and has to do shitlaw.


I feel you've also implied that everyone who goes to Harvard has at least reasonably good outcomes. I think it's pretty much a fact that this isn't true.

Someone the other day was talking about his/her friend who graduated from Stanford Law and ended up having to do doc. review, and I believe the friend no longer even practices law. I know Stanford isn't Harvard, but same idea. There's always going to be some people from every school with shitty outcomes. Not outcomes they find less than desirable, outcomes that are shitty by pretty much anyone's standard.

[emu42]

umad? what evidence do you have to suggest otherwise?

Oh no, I'm sure that your ASW experience was eye-opening, and that no one from HLS has ever ended up jobless or in a job they didn't want.

strawman

Is there something magical about HLS that makes them like shitlaw and underemployment? Or do you think those jobs are just better? If so why harvard, HLS isn't even close to a necessity for that. Using your logic, the 30% at Michigan should be enjoying it just as much right?

yeah, i bet a bunch of people at michigan are too. but hls is better for top pi jobs

Just to be clear, you're asking for evidence that there's one or more person who graduates from HLS per class that isn't happy with his/her outcome?

no, i'm suggesting that the metric desert fox uses doesn't apply to a lot of people's desired employment (i met people making little money doing things they cared about in jobs that were difficult to get and they were perfectly happy)

PI is in that 84%

what is the 84% composed of?

[Holly Golightly]

umad? what evidence do you have to suggest otherwise?

Oh no, I'm sure that your ASW experience was eye-opening, and that no one from HLS has ever ended up jobless or in a job they didn't want.

strawman

haha nah, other than the 5% of harvard students who go for academia/some prestigious PI position and have to settle for biglaw, i think everyone is as happy as they're going to realistically get with law school employment outcomes

[Cicero76]

You guys just don't understand. The main exit options for HLS are BIGPOTUS (see Obama) and BIGSENATE (Ted Cruz). If a community organizer with a couple years of government experience can get BIGPOTUS and a mouthbreathing idiot with literally zero friends can get BIGSENATE, just because of the preftige of their Hahvahd degree, then the sky is the limit for all the bright, well-adjusted, friendly HLS admits and students we know and love here on TLS. I don't blame them at all for being frustrated that you guys can't see that.

[emu42]

i think there is just about as high a % of people in the 84% disappointed in their outcome as there are in the 16%. that graph is just the desert fox definition of good employment

I don't know. I don't know what makes people disappointed, it's hard to quantify that. I think that we can't neglect to realize that there's certainly at least some people who go to Harvard who end up not only disappointed, as they didn't get the employment they were aiming for, but didn't get anything that would classically be considered "good" either. It's not just the percentage of people who are at all disappointed that's important. It's reasonable to consider that, but a person who is disappointed he/she didn't get to do academia and has to do big law is different from a person who is disappointed he/she didn't get to do academia and has to do shitlaw.

i think this is exceptionally rare at harvard, though. it's like columbia; virtually everyone who wants biglaw gets it

[09042014]

Oh no, I'm sure that your ASW experience was eye-opening, and that no one from HLS has ever ended up jobless or in a job they didn't want.

strawman

Is there something magical about HLS that makes them like shitlaw and underemployment? Or do you think those jobs are just better? If so why harvard, HLS isn't even close to a necessity for that. Using your logic, the 30% at Michigan should be enjoying it just as much right?

yeah, i bet a bunch of people at michigan are too. but hls is better for top pi jobs

Just to be clear, you're asking for evidence that there's one or more person who graduates from HLS per class that isn't happy with his/her outcome?

no, i'm suggesting that the metric desert fox uses doesn't apply to a lot of people's desired employment (i met people making little money doing things they cared about in jobs that were difficult to get and they were perfectly happy)

PI is in that 84%

what is the 84% composed of?

(PI + Gov + Academia + 50 person or greater firms + Fed Clerks) - school funded jobs) / (total graduates - .75(JD/MBA class size))

Only counting fulltime. Partime is considered unemployed.

[09042014]

i think there is just about as high a % of people in the 84% disappointed in their outcome as there are in the 16%. that graph is just the desert fox definition of good employment

I don't know. I don't know what makes people disappointed, it's hard to quantify that. I think that we can't neglect to realize that there's certainly at least some people who go to Harvard who end up not only disappointed, as they didn't get the employment they were aiming for, but didn't get anything that would classically be considered "good" either. It's not just the percentage of people who are at all disappointed that's important. It's reasonable to consider that, but a person who is disappointed he/she didn't get to do academia and has to do big law is different from a person who is disappointed he/she didn't get to do academia and has to do shitlaw.

i think this is exceptionally rare at harvard, though. it's like columbia; virtually everyone who wants biglaw gets it

I might believe that virtually no combination of HLS grades makes big law impossible, but there is no way anyone who wants big law gets it. Nobody is going to hire a weirdo just because they have HLS next to their name.

[Holly Golightly]

i think there is just about as high a % of people in the 84% disappointed in their outcome as there are in the 16%. that graph is just the desert fox definition of good employment

I don't know. I don't know what makes people disappointed, it's hard to quantify that. I think that we can't neglect to realize that there's certainly at least some people who go to Harvard who end up not only disappointed, as they didn't get the employment they were aiming for, but didn't get anything that would classically be considered "good" either. It's not just the percentage of people who are at all disappointed that's important. It's reasonable to consider that, but a person who is disappointed he/she didn't get to do academia and has to do big law is different from a person who is disappointed he/she didn't get to do academia and has to do shitlaw.

i think this is exceptionally rare at harvard, though. it's like columbia; virtually everyone who wants biglaw gets it

Why doesn't Harvard have a 100% employment rate?

[anyriotgirl]

i think there is just about as high a % of people in the 84% disappointed in their outcome as there are in the 16%. that graph is just the desert fox definition of good employment

I don't know. I don't know what makes people disappointed, it's hard to quantify that. I think that we can't neglect to realize that there's certainly at least some people who go to Harvard who end up not only disappointed, as they didn't get the employment they were aiming for, but didn't get anything that would classically be considered "good" either. It's not just the percentage of people who are at all disappointed that's important. It's reasonable to consider that, but a person who is disappointed he/she didn't get to do academia and has to do big law is different from a person who is disappointed he/she didn't get to do academia and has to do shitlaw.

i think this is exceptionally rare at harvard, though. it's like columbia; virtually everyone who wants biglaw gets it

Why doesn't Harvard have a 100% employment rate?

the 16% actually decide to become SAHMs

[emu42]

umad? what evidence do you have to suggest otherwise?

Oh no, I'm sure that your ASW experience was eye-opening, and that no one from HLS has ever ended up jobless or in a job they didn't want.

strawman

haha nah, other than the 5% of harvard students who go for academia/some prestigious PI position and have to settle for biglaw, i think everyone is as happy as they're going to realistically get with law school employment outcomes

i mean, a couple of people are going to totally fuck up law school or be socially awkward enough to screw up all their interviews. but if just about everyone who wants biglaw gets it, then why are you assuming the people who don't get into biglaw are unhappy with their outcomes?

Why doesn't Harvard have a 100% employment rate?

it has a 96+% employment rate...

[emu42]

i think there is just about as high a % of people in the 84% disappointed in their outcome as there are in the 16%. that graph is just the desert fox definition of good employment

I don't know. I don't know what makes people disappointed, it's hard to quantify that. I think that we can't neglect to realize that there's certainly at least some people who go to Harvard who end up not only disappointed, as they didn't get the employment they were aiming for, but didn't get anything that would classically be considered "good" either. It's not just the percentage of people who are at all disappointed that's important. It's reasonable to consider that, but a person who is disappointed he/she didn't get to do academia and has to do big law is different from a person who is disappointed he/she didn't get to do academia and has to do shitlaw.

i think this is exceptionally rare at harvard, though. it's like columbia; virtually everyone who wants biglaw gets it

I might believe that virtually no combination of HLS grades makes big law impossible, but there is no way anyone who wants big law gets it. Nobody is going to hire a weirdo just because they have HLS next to their name.

what does your graph measure? (actually curious)

[Princetonlaw68]

i think there is just about as high a % of people in the 84% disappointed in their outcome as there are in the 16%. that graph is just the desert fox definition of good employment

I don't know. I don't know what makes people disappointed, it's hard to quantify that. I think that we can't neglect to realize that there's certainly at least some people who go to Harvard who end up not only disappointed, as they didn't get the employment they were aiming for, but didn't get anything that would classically be considered "good" either. It's not just the percentage of people who are at all disappointed that's important. It's reasonable to consider that, but a person who is disappointed he/she didn't get to do academia and has to do big law is different from a person who is disappointed he/she didn't get to do academia and has to do shitlaw.

i think this is exceptionally rare at harvard, though. it's like columbia; virtually everyone who wants biglaw gets it

I agree that it's rare, at least right out of school. I don't know about exceptionally, but certainly rare at these schools. I just feel that you've been implying that no one from a school like Harvard has a horrible outcome. This is where I vehemently disagree with you.

I also believe that the more years out you go from graduation, the more not so amazing outcomes you'll be able to see. I don't think Harvard is a golden ticket to riches or whatever else you desire. Only a large trust fund can give you that kind of cushion.

I will agree that as far as things that you can do that are actually in your control, there's not many better positions you can put yourself in than going to HLS. (at least in the world of law)

Guarantees and best shot are two completely different things though.

[09042014]

what is the 84% composed of?

(PI + Gov + Academia + 50 person or greater firms + Fed Clerks) - school funded jobs) / (total graduates - .75(JD/MBA class size))

Only counting fulltime. Partime is considered unemployed.

[emu42]

I agree that it's rare, at least right out of school. I don't know about exceptionally, but certainly rare at these schools. I just feel that you've been implying that no one from a school like Harvard has a horrible outcome. This is where I vehemently disagree with you.

i think virtually no one has a horrible outcome. the people making 60k in government, from what i've found, genuinely want to do that

I also believe that the more years out you go from graduation, the more not so amazing outcomes you'll be able to see. I don't think Harvard is a golden ticket to riches or whatever else you desire. Only a large trust fund can give you that kind of cushion.

that's not what i desire, and that's a pretty dumb thing to desire

[bjsesq]

i think virtually no one has a horrible outcome. the people making 60k in government, from what i've found, genuinely want to do that

Really? You think?

[emu42]

what is the 84% composed of?

(PI + Gov + Academia + 50 person or greater firms + Fed Clerks) - school funded jobs) / (total graduates - .75(JD/MBA class size))

Only counting fulltime. Partime is considered unemployed.

where do the other 16% go, then?

http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/care ... -data.html

[emu42]

i think virtually no one has a horrible outcome. the people making 60k in government, from what i've found, genuinely want to do that

Really? You think?

definitely.

[bjsesq]

i think virtually no one has a horrible outcome. the people making 60k in government, from what i've found, genuinely want to do that

Really? You think?

definitely.

Seemslegit. I think.

[emu42]

i think virtually no one has a horrible outcome. the people making 60k in government, from what i've found, genuinely want to do that

Really? You think?

definitely.

Seemslegit. I think.

plenty of rich kids interested in politics at hls

[EquallyWrong]

she's transitioned into some kind of low grade performance artist, but if she's ever going to be successful she needs to take it off the internet and run the alternative comedy circuit with this irredeemably obnoxious prestige whore character she's developed...otherwise it's just another shitposter taking the "I was just trolling/having a little fun because you guyz are too seriouz" exit option.

haha the prestige whore label again. i'm finding that 100% of anti-hls debates eventually result in the pro-hls poster being called a prestige whore

this isn't an anti-HLS debate, it's an anti-you-as-a-person-on-the-internet debate. you're massively over identifying with the school you got into even before you've gone to a single class, which most people here rightly view as pathetic. it only turns into an anti-HLS debate when people realize how hopelessly stupid some of the people they let in are and, also, how intolerably vocal these people are (this is where we have arrived as a thread in between tossing off esoteric employment stats). I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that this is just some character you're doing for attention when it was clear that isn't how it started. It's probably a caricature most hurtful to your fellow HLS admits, if anyone. At the end of the day some people are just dumb and, unfortunately, we don't have a cure for that yet...though they mistakenly seem to think getting into HLS helps or vindicates them in some way. I guess I'm being a bit of a fuckwit for reviving the emu is awful line...but your so called arguments are barely anything when their not flat out self contradictory.

[emu42]

she's transitioned into some kind of low grade performance artist, but if she's ever going to be successful she needs to take it off the internet and run the alternative comedy circuit with this irredeemably obnoxious prestige whore character she's developed...otherwise it's just another shitposter taking the "I was just trolling/having a little fun because you guyz are too seriouz" exit option.

haha the prestige whore label again. i'm finding that 100% of anti-hls debates eventually result in the pro-hls poster being called a prestige whore

this isn't an anti-HLS debate, it's an anti-you-as-a-person-on-the-internet debate. you're massively over identifying with the school you got into even before you've gone to a single class, which most people here rightly view as pathetic. it only turns into an anti-HLS debate when people realize how hopelessly stupid some of the people they let in are and, also, how intolerably vocal these people are (this is where we have arrived as a thread in between tossing off esoteric employment stats). I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that this is just some character you're doing for attention when it was clear that isn't how it started. It's probably a caricature most hurtful to your fellow HLS admits, if anyone. At the end of the day some people are just dumb and, unfortunately, we don't have a cure for that yet...though they mistakenly seem to think getting into HLS helps or vindicates them in some way. I guess I'm being a bit of a fuckwit for reviving the emu is awful line...but your so called arguments are barely anything when their not flat out self contradictory.

lolwut, i have no idea if hls is going to be wonderful. my earliest posts in this thread had nothing to do with harvard, they argued against the notion that law school choice is a function of short term expected value and that law school has to be horrible. harvard didn't get brough up until later. yeah i've trolled people in addition to arguing this stuff, but if people keep calling me an idiot i'm gonna attempt to mess with them in return. also hls keeps getting bashed and i keep getting called a prestige whore, both of which are wholly unwarranted