All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school? Forum

[r6_philly]

Sarcasm... not your strong suit.

I get the sarcasm in this!

ETA: BTW the post was directed at whoooo? You should know why I responded.

[Veyron]

A torn ACL is more debilitating than depression and heart disease?

Depression and heart and heart disease is correlated to job stress, but there are ways to reduce job stress and live healthier to cut down the risk factors... Asians work MUCH MUCH more stressful jobs and I don't think they are higher in heart disease.

There apparently no way I can think of to reduce the risk of getting rolled over by 300lbs.

Also, I was mostly talking about concussions. As someone with more than a couple serious concussions ... it is not something I would wish for anyone, and NFL players experience what I experienced in maybe 1 game.

Lastly, I had soft tissue tears in pretty much every major joint in my body plus some minor ones. Don't make fun of it, you don't understand.

I'm not making fun of anything, just pointing out a contrarian perspective on things.

Also, aren't you supposed to stop playing football after one concussion since a second one can make your brain explode?

[r6_philly]

I'm not making fun of anything, just pointing out a contrarian perspective on things.

Also, aren't you supposed to stop playing football after one concussion since a second one can make your brain explode?

Mild concussions can go unnoticed while the cumulative effects increase. They are now studying that the repeated impacts amounts to major ones.

I had major concussions, and I get a lot of side effects when experiencing mild impacts happen now. I used to never get motion sick, now I get it all the time. There a lot more peculiar effects, if you are interested to know you can pm me. It is not cool at all.

[Hank Chill]

The Rise and Fall of a Law Student
1. Takes LSAT, does not study despite the test being the most important test they will ever take (save for maybe the bar, but that's debatable), gets 155
2. Looks into schools; YAY! There are some that will take me!
3. Finds TLS, is told how terrible the market and their school of choice is, accuses everyone of being an elitist, and blames jobless grads for "not networking/working hard enough"
4. Rationalizes their choice of law school:
-"I don't want to go into biglaw. I want to go into PI" (stupidly assumes that PI gigs are plentiful and easy to get, and that no tier 1 students want them)
-"Where you go to school doesn't matter, it is all about NETWORKING!"
-"I will work super duper hard!"
-"It is all just the economy, but it will get better!"
5. Crosses fingers that their 180k, 3-year investment at a TTT will pan out

*fast forward three years*

Oh shit...

[Lil' Blizz]

Reason #1. I'm from Kentucky.
Reason #2. I have a lot of contacts throughout the state, and zero contacts outside of the state.
Reason #3. B/c of my contacts, I can make a pretty good living here in Louisville.
Reason #4. I like it here.

I got accepted to a few out-of-state schools that I applied to, but I didn't really care to go to them. My numbers were not t-14 material but I think if I really wanted to apply myself and get a higher LSAT score, I probably could have bumped it 5-10. But I knew going into the exam what score I needed to get just to be competitive to all of the in-state schools, and I got it.

Had I taken the LSAT a second time, or studied my ass off for six months, maybe I could have had a shot in the top 20's. But I liked what my state had to offer. I'm a student at one of the oldest law schools in the nation, where Justice Brandeis and his wife are buried right outside the front door. Kinda creepy and cool. Dean Chen is awesome, the city of Louisville is a blast to live in, and every lawyer I've ever met in this city just seems to be happy.

I don't think any of the top schools could have competed at all unless I got a full ride, which clearly wasn't in the cards for me. I'll be graduating with roughly $45K in law school debt, and that's mostly because of how cheap it is to be an in-state student at any Kentucky school.

[Heartford]

I read the first couple pages of this thread, and I think I'm on Veyron's side, at least with respect to the argument that it's unlikely that someone would choose a lower-ranked school because of the school's dedication to the public interest.

I go to a second tier school, and I am interested in pursuing a career in Public Interest/Non-Profit/Helping people for $40k, etc. I still would have gone to a T-14 in a heartbeat if I were accepted to one, but not because I'd suddenly want biglaw. I'd like to hear a convincing argument that anyone would not be in a much better position to accomplish similar goals with a degree from any T-14.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and my reasons for going to my second-tier school:

1) location, location, location
2) tuition, tuition, tuition
3) scholarship, scholarship, scholarship
4) Because I am not good enough at the LSAT, and also not interesting enough, to go to Yale.

[learntolift]

top tier is top 40 correct?

[romothesavior]

top tier is top 40 correct?

50

[janefbk]

.

[Veyron]

1) Moving to another state/region is out of the question.
2) I have 7 years experience in commercial/residential property management. I am interested in pursuing commercial/residential real estate law for small time landlords. Small or mid-size firm.
3) Husband is a commercial broker for office space/high rise. Networking is not an issue.
4) Worked at one of the top international law firms for 2 years and hated the environment. Associates were ‘wooed’ initially, worked 60-70+ hours/week knowing they would get kicked in the can after 2 years if they didn’t make partner (at most 2 spots for partner for 50 associates). Partners joked about their 3rd/4th marriage/divorce. Elitism. “BigLaw” does not equal “Great Life”
5) Aside from work, my husband and I make a small income off of our apartment units.
6) We have no student loans, car payments or credit card debt.
7) Becoming an attorney has always been my dream goal. We can afford it so why not?

If you really want to go to law school and your career expectations are realistic then go for it! I'm probably going about this the wrong way but who the hell cares? I'm happy with my choices.

ITT, the one situation where going to a non-T1 (or T-14) makes sense.

Next week on TLS, hens' teeth.

[too old for this sh*]

1) Moving to another state/region is out of the question.
2) I have 7 years experience in commercial/residential property management. I am interested in pursuing commercial/residential real estate law for small time landlords. Small or mid-size firm.
3) Husband is a commercial broker for office space/high rise. Networking is not an issue.
4) Worked at one of the top international law firms for 2 years and hated the environment. Associates were ‘wooed’ initially, worked 60-70+ hours/week knowing they would get kicked in the can after 2 years if they didn’t make partner (at most 2 spots for partner for 50 associates). Partners joked about their 3rd/4th marriage/divorce. Elitism. “BigLaw” does not equal “Great Life”
5) Aside from work, my husband and I make a small income off of our apartment units.
6) We have no student loans, car payments or credit card debt.
7) Becoming an attorney has always been my dream goal. We can afford it so why not?

If you really want to go to law school and your career expectations are realistic then go for it! I'm probably going about this the wrong way but who the hell cares? I'm happy with my choices.

ITT, the one situation where going to a non-T1 (or T-14) makes sense.

Next week on TLS, hens' teeth.

many non-trads fit in a category where a non-tier 1 makes sense...but the kids on the board tend to refuse to recognize real world scenarios or accept that there is bank to be made outside of BigLaw regardless of law school pedigree.

[Veyron]

1) Moving to another state/region is out of the question.
2) I have 7 years experience in commercial/residential property management. I am interested in pursuing commercial/residential real estate law for small time landlords. Small or mid-size firm.
3) Husband is a commercial broker for office space/high rise. Networking is not an issue.
4) Worked at one of the top international law firms for 2 years and hated the environment. Associates were ‘wooed’ initially, worked 60-70+ hours/week knowing they would get kicked in the can after 2 years if they didn’t make partner (at most 2 spots for partner for 50 associates). Partners joked about their 3rd/4th marriage/divorce. Elitism. “BigLaw” does not equal “Great Life”
5) Aside from work, my husband and I make a small income off of our apartment units.
6) We have no student loans, car payments or credit card debt.
7) Becoming an attorney has always been my dream goal. We can afford it so why not?

If you really want to go to law school and your career expectations are realistic then go for it! I'm probably going about this the wrong way but who the hell cares? I'm happy with my choices.

ITT, the one situation where going to a non-T1 (or T-14) makes sense.

Next week on TLS, hens' teeth.

many non-trads fit in a category where a non-tier 1 makes sense...but the kids on the board tend to refuse to recognize real world scenarios or accept that there is bank to be made outside of BigLaw regardless of law school pedigree.

I think you miss the point. She isn't going to make bank out of law school (and acknowledges that) but has (a) always wanted to be an attorney, (b) has the connections to at least get a job, (c) is in a good place financially. Absent any factor, law school would not make sense for her.

[legalkitty]

First, this may blow some of your mind's, but not everyone who goes to law school is intending on practicing law. There are many people who already have jobs such as in accounting, the police force, public administration, lobbying, and even the medical field, who are going to law school to advance the career they already have or to become learned. Thus why would you spend over $100K to keep the same job? that would be illogical, hence the reason for going to a lower tier school where in some cases the tuition may be significantly lower (in many but not all).

Second, something else that may blow your minds. Not everyone can pick up and moved to a city at the drop of a hat. Many people have family obligations such as their own children or caring for an elderly parent. Therefore, going to their local law school or an online law school is their only option.

Third, although many of you are betting that you will make enough money upon exiting law school to pay off your student loans - not everyone is of the gambling type. There are only so many top firm positions and getting a top firm position also requires that you have received top grades. Further, not everyone wants a big firm job. Instead they already know what kind of lawyer they want to be such as a public defender, legal aid, or work with a non profit. Therefore, going to a top tier school with all the debt that comes with it, is not a smart choice.

Thus, I think if you are having a hard time understanding why people go to lower tier schools then you might want to think about all the arguments out there.

[UtahPhi]

Non T-14, if I spent another 6 months studying, I am fairly confident I could top 170. Why I am choosing a 40's ranked option.

1) I know where I want to live, and there are only two law schools in state
2) Both schools are similarly ranked
3) I have extensive ties to the state
4) Making 160k/year isn't my end goal
5) I can graduate with no debt, and a considerable amount left in savings

Sure top-14 would be awesome, but not awesome enough to justify around 100k in debt if I know I want to just come back my state where t-14 really don't have a whole lot of desire to practice.

[TheTopBloke]

I don't know anymore.

[Veyron]

Non T-14, if I spent another 6 months studying, I am fairly confident I could top 170. Why I am choosing a 40's ranked option.

1) I know where I want to live, and there are only two law schools in state
2) Both schools are similarly ranked
3) I have extensive ties to the state
4) Making 160k/year isn't my end goal
5) I can graduate with no debt, and a considerable amount left in savings

Sure top-14 would be awesome, but not awesome enough to justify around 100k in debt if I know I want to just come back my state where t-14 really don't have a whole lot of desire to practice.

Actually, BYU at the saint's rate is probably another exception to the rule.

[UtahPhi]

Non T-14, if I spent another 6 months studying, I am fairly confident I could top 170. Why I am choosing a 40's ranked option.

1) I know where I want to live, and there are only two law schools in state
2) Both schools are similarly ranked
3) I have extensive ties to the state
4) Making 160k/year isn't my end goal
5) I can graduate with no debt, and a considerable amount left in savings

Sure top-14 would be awesome, but not awesome enough to justify around 100k in debt if I know I want to just come back my state where t-14 really don't have a whole lot of desire to practice.

Actually, BYU at the saint's rate is probably another exception to the rule.

"Saints Rate" even for non-mormons is almost unbeatable.

[dr123]

Non T-14, if I spent another 6 months studying, I am fairly confident I could top 170. Why I am choosing a 40's ranked option.

1) I know where I want to live, and there are only two law schools in state
2) Both schools are similarly ranked
3) I have extensive ties to the state
4) Making 160k/year isn't my end goal
5) I can graduate with no debt, and a considerable amount left in savings

Sure top-14 would be awesome, but not awesome enough to justify around 100k in debt if I know I want to just come back my state where t-14 really don't have a whole lot of desire to practice.

Actually, BYU at the saint's rate is probably another exception to the rule.

I'd say any school that is the only (or one of two) feeder into a insular market is the exception to the rule

[Veyron]

Non T-14, if I spent another 6 months studying, I am fairly confident I could top 170. Why I am choosing a 40's ranked option.

1) I know where I want to live, and there are only two law schools in state
2) Both schools are similarly ranked
3) I have extensive ties to the state
4) Making 160k/year isn't my end goal
5) I can graduate with no debt, and a considerable amount left in savings

Sure top-14 would be awesome, but not awesome enough to justify around 100k in debt if I know I want to just come back my state where t-14 really don't have a whole lot of desire to practice.

Actually, BYU at the saint's rate is probably another exception to the rule.

I'd say any school that is the only (or one of two) feeder into a insular market is the exception to the rule

Depends on the market. BYU is actually a regional powerhouse - it places like a local flagship throughout the mountain west.

[lisjjen]

Depends on the market. BYU is actually a regional powerhouse - it places like a local flagship throughout the mountain west.

That it does. And not just in firms. Our state just elected a moron to Congress who has a J.D. from BYU.

[adude]

"non tier 1 people" Sure, we know what you mean, but this is poorly worded. The phrase "non tier 1" modifies "people." This confuses the rankings of the schools people attend with their personal qualities.

[Fark-o-vision]

I read the first couple pages of this thread, and I think I'm on Veyron's side, at least with respect to the argument that it's unlikely that someone would choose a lower-ranked school because of the school's dedication to the public interest.

I go to a second tier school, and I am interested in pursuing a career in Public Interest/Non-Profit/Helping people for $40k, etc. I still would have gone to a T-14 in a heartbeat if I were accepted to one, but not because I'd suddenly want biglaw. I'd like to hear a convincing argument that anyone would not be in a much better position to accomplish similar goals with a degree from any T-14.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and my reasons for going to my second-tier school:

1) location, location, location
2) tuition, tuition, tuition
3) scholarship, scholarship, scholarship
4) Because I am not good enough at the LSAT, and also not interesting enough, to go to Yale.

You're cute. The way you post.

[Danteshek]

I went to law school because I didn't have any better options. I was in Russia interviewing with investment firms in September 2008. I had an offer to be investor relations manager for a well regarded fund. I left my job, sold my car, broke up with my girlfriend and moved out of my apartment. I bought my ticket to Moscow and was set to leave in five days. I got a call saying the managing partner had a stroke and was in a coma. He died a month later. I was unemployed for a year. I applied and went to Southwestern. I transferred to Loyola where I now have an excellent chance of becoming Chief Articles Editor of the Law Review (interviewed for the position today).

[Heartford]

You're cute. The way you post.

Why is this cute?

[keg411]

1) location, location, location
2) tuition, tuition, tuition
3) scholarship, scholarship, scholarship
4) Because I never went to class during undergrad and was shut out of 90% of the top schools before I even started studying for the LSAT

These were my reasons (with the last one modified).