Take the money and Run; YS - CCNH? Forum

[buffalo_]

from the stats you provided, in 2007, chicago sent over 10% more than harvard straight into biglaw (the gap is even bigger w/r/t stanford and gigantic w/r/t yale). for 2013, per your link, chicago put 53.02% into the nlj 250 (an over 20% decline). in contrast, harvard sent 53.55% (slightly, more than chicago but, more importantly, a mere 7.55% decline).

You keep changing your argument. You said, during the boom years people from elite schools opted out of big law. The relevance of the 2007 number is that it's the last major boom year, and it shows that HLS grads opted into big law during the boom, relative to learner times, not out of it.

i'm not changing anything. you left out the relativity to chicago. by the way, do you have data for the period 1986-2007 or beyond, or any years in between?

We get it. Harvard is much amaze.

May I kneel and kiss your ring, my grace?

[anyriotgirl]

i'm serious though. how do you graduate with a 2.7-2.9? i'm not trying to insult you but do you have a documented learning disability?

Oh, it's incredibly easy to do terrible in school when you don't give a fuck. The worst semester of school of my life was when I took a few classes at a community college. Also, DF was an engineering major which makes it even easier to do poorly.

yes, things happen but 2.7-2.9 is a bit low. more importantly, it is baffling, that a man possessing such stats can muster the audacity to go around questioning other people's intellect.

he used to brag about his biglaw paycheck (back when he was a summer) in inconsequential arguments with 0L's etc. he's an uncouth individual of ill-repute and has generally been a dick since he's been on tls. there used to be an equally-obnoxious fellow called shoe-shine, i wonder what his moniker is. dude couldn't construct a sentence without telling you about his 1L SA job. this place attracts quite colorful characters.

desert fox basically embodies all that is wrong with the legal profession and the people it attracts.

I am so in awe of yr intellect right now. please, use more words. they don't teach vocab in the lower T14, so I'm taking notes

[rayiner]

I dont know if this is relevant to the argument now or not, since it was few pages back.

Harvard use to enrol 1000 students per year pre-Elena Kagan, which wasnt too far/long ago (2003).

This article suggests Harvard's incoming class size was 550-560 pre-Kagan: http://www.swlaw.edu/pdfs/jle/jle611washburn.pdf. She cut 1L section sizes by adding more profs.

[Blessedassurance]

I take issue with the gsb study for a number of reasons. First, because it's a blatant projection of the commercial US News survey rankings, which inform the "firm" rankings (avg of school rank starting associates) and hence through a Beckettian feedback loop reclassify the schools. The inputs and outputs are the same garbage.

I also agree, methodological failings aside, it inflates Chicago (and maybe Yale) for partnerships relative to schools like Harvard with larger class sizes. There's a sample size issue here. Chicago has been pumping out corporate firm attorneys at an impressive rate, yes, and maybe a few more Chicago associates are staying on as partner than the east coast ivies heading to gov't service or finance, but the disproportionate impact of a small cadre of partners for a school of 1/3 of Harvard's (and 1/2 Columbia's for that matter) class size is not insignificant.

I know this argument is convoluted from a % basis but it's a little like comparing H to S in clerkships.. Harvard isn't really twice as shitty as Stanford at getting CoA clerkships, it's just difficult to measure such divergent sample sizes and your p values will be shitty

The Stanford issue is a clear east coast (NY/DC) bias in the rankings, since again, they're derived from US News and Vault. If you took a top CA-based firms orientation it would be a totally different list.

it's like the debate over supreme court justices.

[Blessedassurance]

he's an uncouth individual of ill-repute

lol what a nerd.

i'm very very far from a nerd, but whatever helps you sleep at night...

[09042014]

i'm serious though. how do you graduate with a 2.7-2.9? i'm not trying to insult you but do you have a documented learning disability?

Oh, it's incredibly easy to do terrible in school when you don't give a fuck. The worst semester of school of my life was when I took a few classes at a community college. Also, DF was an engineering major which makes it even easier to do poorly.

yes, things happen but 2.7-2.9 is a bit low. more importantly, it is baffling, that a man possessing such stats can muster the audacity to go around questioning other people's intellect.

he used to brag about his biglaw paycheck (back when he was a summer) in inconsequential arguments with 0L's etc. he's an uncouth individual of ill-repute and has generally been a dick since he's been on tls. there used to be an equally-obnoxious fellow called shoe-shine, i wonder what his moniker is. dude couldn't construct a sentence without telling you about his 1L SA job. this place attracts quite colorful characters.
desert fox basically embodies all that is wrong with the legal profession and the people it attracts.

Come on man, you called us proles for going to Northwestern, a school you probably couldn't even get into if you checked a different box.

You are so awful you can't even see it. It's hilarious.

[rayiner]

from the stats you provided, in 2007, chicago sent over 10% more than harvard straight into biglaw (the gap is even bigger w/r/t stanford and gigantic w/r/t yale). for 2013, per your link, chicago put 53.02% into the nlj 250 (an over 20% decline). in contrast, harvard sent 53.55% (slightly, more than chicago but, more importantly, a mere 7.55% decline).

You keep changing your argument. You said, during the boom years people from elite schools opted out of big law. The relevance of the 2007 number is that it's the last major boom year, and it shows that HLS grads opted into big law during the boom, relative to learner times, not out of it.

i'm not changing anything. you left out the relativity to chicago. by the way, do you have data for the period 1986-2007 or beyond, or any years in between?

You said, and I quote: "there's no use calculating based on the entire class since there was a time (during the boom times) when students of the elite schools were eschewing biglaw."

This statement is directly contradicted by the fact that during boom times (2007 as the data point), more people went to NLJ250 firms from Harvard than now.

[Blessedassurance]

Come on man, you called us proles for going to Northwestern, a school you probably couldn't even get into if you checked a different box.

You are so awful you can't even see it. It's hilarious.

i wouldn't have gone to law school outside hys but why wouldn't i get into northwestern considering i had better stats than who they let in? you can find examples for the argument you want to wake but i'm not the one. sorry.

do you wish to change your argument to how i am supposed to have been at the bottom of my class after 1L?

[beachbum]

he's an uncouth individual of ill-repute

lol what a nerd.

i'm very very far from a nerd, but whatever helps you sleep at night...

*gunner nerd.

[09042014]

Come on man, you called us proles for going to Northwestern, a school you probably couldn't even get into if you checked a different box.

You are so awful you can't even see it. It's hilarious.

i wouldn't have gone to law school outside hys but why wouldn't i get into northwestern considering i had better stats than who they let in? you can find examples for the argument you want to wake but i'm not the one. sorry.

do you wish to change your argument to how i am supposed to have been at the bottom of my class after 1L?

My point is "you didn't earn that"

[buffalo_]

0L here.

IRL judges will side with you if you continue to make enough non-sensical arguments even after your evidence has been thoroughly discredited and shown to be contradictory, right?

Or does that only happen if you go to Harvard?

[jbagelboy]

damn we've got some circa 2011 drama going on right now. like watching your upperclassmen friends fight about shit from freshmen year.

[unc0mm0n1]

i'm serious though. how do you graduate with a 2.7-2.9? i'm not trying to insult you but do you have a documented learning disability?

Oh, it's incredibly easy to do terrible in school when you don't give a fuck. The worst semester of school of my life was when I took a few classes at a community college. Also, DF was an engineering major which makes it even easier to do poorly.

At my undergrad (A top public Engineering school) the median GPA for the College of Engineering was like 3.2. I was a Bio-engineering major (before I switched majors) which I think is one of the easier engineering majors and I knew some of my classmates who scored 33-34 on the ACT who had sub 3.5 GPAs. A sub 3.0 GPA doesn't seem out of the ordinary esp. if he went to a school that doesn't practice grade inflation.

[jbagelboy]

Come on man, you called us proles for going to Northwestern, a school you probably couldn't even get into if you checked a different box.

You are so awful you can't even see it. It's hilarious.

i wouldn't have gone to law school outside hys but why wouldn't i get into northwestern considering i had better stats than who they let in? you can find examples for the argument you want to wake but i'm not the one. sorry.

do you wish to change your argument to how i am supposed to have been at the bottom of my class after 1L?

My point is "you didn't earn that"

i thought we weren't supposed to have AA debates

[A. Nony Mouse]

If y'all keep it up with the personal insults over who is smart enough to get into whichever overpriced fancy school, this thread will get locked again. Go back to nitpicking numbers of partners at a tiny number of national firms.

(especially no AA comments.)

[09042014]

i'm serious though. how do you graduate with a 2.7-2.9? i'm not trying to insult you but do you have a documented learning disability?

Oh, it's incredibly easy to do terrible in school when you don't give a fuck. The worst semester of school of my life was when I took a few classes at a community college. Also, DF was an engineering major which makes it even easier to do poorly.

At my undergrad (A top public Engineering school) the median GPA for the College of Engineering was like 3.2. I was a Bio-engineering major (before I switched majors) which I think is one of the easier engineering majors and I knew some of my classmates who scored 33-34 on the ACT who had sub 3.5 GPAs. A sub 3.0 GPA doesn't seem out of the ordinary esp. if he went to a school that doesn't practice grade inflation.

I was about bottom third to bottom quarter of my class. Pretty shitty. But it's much harder than law school.

[jbagelboy]

i wouldn't have gone to law school outside hys

this is pretty silly

[unc0mm0n1]

i'm serious though. how do you graduate with a 2.7-2.9? i'm not trying to insult you but do you have a documented learning disability?

Oh, it's incredibly easy to do terrible in school when you don't give a fuck. The worst semester of school of my life was when I took a few classes at a community college. Also, DF was an engineering major which makes it even easier to do poorly.

yes, things happen but 2.7-2.9 is a bit low. more importantly, it is baffling, that a man possessing such stats can muster the audacity to go around questioning other people's intellect.

he used to brag about his biglaw paycheck (back when he was a summer) in inconsequential arguments with 0L's etc. he's an uncouth individual of ill-repute and has generally been a dick since he's been on tls. there used to be an equally-obnoxious fellow called shoe-shine, i wonder what his moniker is. dude couldn't construct a sentence without telling you about his 1L SA job. this place attracts quite colorful characters.
desert fox basically embodies all that is wrong with the legal profession and the people it attracts.

Come on man, you called us proles for going to Northwestern, a school you probably couldn't even get into if you checked a different box.

You are so awful you can't even see it. It's hilarious.

C'mon DF you're better than that. I know many minorities here who probably could have gotten into Northwestern if they checked White.

[ZGr88n]

It's like a bunch of teenage girls have taken over this thread.

[Blessedassurance]

My point is "you didn't earn that"

earn what? i graduated undergrad top of my class, man. i'm the wrong example to use for your arguments. i can't be outing myself to the entire board but let it go. you made a quasi-educated guess (prejudicial albeit quasi-educated) and missed. no hard feelings.

[Blessedassurance]

i wouldn't have gone to law school outside hys

this is pretty silly

why do you think so, without knowing my goals, aims, and other variables involved in my decision? or are you assuming i said that based on some silly notion "prestige"?

[09042014]

Partner thing is a stupid argument. There isn't even a plausible reason why school prestige itself would make an effect other than where you started. But where you started is a pretty big factor. But after you start, I sincerely doubt it matters.

[Holly Golightly]

0L here.

IRL judges will side with you if you continue to make enough non-sensical arguments even after your evidence has been thoroughly discredited and shown to be contradictory, right?

Or does that only happen if you go to Harvard?

Oh, judges definitely go straight to the signature page, google the attorney's name, and find out what law school they went to when reading briefs. I really think that instead of listing firms, attorneys should start listing their law school on the docket.

[kaiser]

Partner thing is a stupid argument. There isn't even a plausible reason why school prestige itself would make an effect other than where you started. But where you started is a pretty big factor. But after you start, I sincerely doubt it matters.

Even a V20 hiring partner chimed in to this thread to note that the school you went to has no effect on partner considerations. And myself and numerous other grads in firms have also noted that the school you went to is far far less important than the firm you came from and the work you did/reputation you built there when the time comes for lateral/exit option moves. Like I said, its the same reason that your undergrad institution doesn't really matter come law firm hiring time, since they have far more relevant criteria on which to judge you (your law school, and your law school grades).

[Holly Golightly]

Partner thing is a stupid argument. There isn't even a plausible reason why school prestige itself would make an effect other than where you started. But where you started is a pretty big factor. But after you start, I sincerely doubt it matters.

Even a V20 hiring partner chimed in to this thread to note that the school you went to has no effect on partner considerations. And myself and numerous other grads in firms have also noted that the school you went to is far far less important than the firm you came from and the work you did/reputation you built there when the time comes for lateral/exit option moves.

Obviously you didn't go to Harvard, or your would KNOW. Even their admitted students just get it.