Class of 2013 Employment Data Forum

[paayter]

tl;dr

Hastings' number is starting to look like American U's number... Looks like Hastings is expecting another huge drop in ranking next year.

yeah...every california school or most had a nice 10 percent bump in their scores at their highest class levels, but hastings instead suffered a 10 percent drop. that seems like a bad sign...they need to seriously contract their leop program, offer more merit awards to qualified candidates and maybe even consider a living stipend. they also need to make a drastic cut in class sizes and have professors understand that they need to take a small paycut collectively. because whats going to happen is they are going to keep dropping, less and less students will be compelled to enroll and its going to be much harder to work your way up the rankings again. the solution seems all too simple, am i missing something more complex or is it just pure greed?

[lecsa]

tl;dr

Hastings' number is starting to look like American U's number... Looks like Hastings is expecting another huge drop in ranking next year.

yeah...every california school or most had a nice 10 percent bump in their scores at their highest class levels, but hastings instead suffered a 10 percent drop. that seems like a bad sign...they need to seriously contract their leop program, offer more merit awards to qualified candidates and maybe even consider a living stipend. they also need to make a drastic cut in class sizes and have professors understand that they need to take a small paycut collectively. because whats going to happen is they are going to keep dropping, less and less students will be compelled to enroll and its going to be much harder to work your way up the rankings again. the solution seems all too simple, am i missing something more complex or is it just pure greed?

The California legal market is too terrible for regional schools to keep their rankings in my opinion. UCLA and USC, for instance, are probably going to continue declining in relation to Vandy and UT.

[lecsa]

.

[JCougar]

I wonder if it is currently possible to calculate the overall percentage of students from the Top 50 (US News Tier 1) law schools who actually get a job that pays enough to pay off their debt.

Taking a brief glimpse at the first post of this thread, I would guess than number has to be around 25% or so, and that's only T1 law schools.

I cannot believe this system has gone on as long as it has with such disastrous outcomes.

[20141023]

.

[JCougar]

I wonder if it is currently possible to calculate the overall percentage of students from the Top 50 (US News Tier 1) law schools who actually get a job that pays enough to pay off their debt.

Taking a brief glimpse at the first post of this thread, I would guess than number has to be around 25% or so, and that's only T1 law schools.

I cannot believe this system has gone on as long as it has with such disastrous outcomes.

I don't think that it is possible for most graduates to default, though. If you're on IBR or PAYE (the former not having the arbitrary qualifications of the latter) then even if you're only making $40,000 a year, you can still meet your required monthly payments because it is based on how much you earn. This won't become an issue until the federal government stops lending every damn person who comes their way $300,000 just because they took the LSAT, graduated college, and have a pulse. As long as the fed is the lender and they have these crazy plans that prevent people from realizing how much debt they're actually incurring, we'll just keep using taxpayers' money to cover up the issue.

It's a totally irresponsible way to make the budget look better in the short-term, while sabotaging it in the long term.

You can get on IBR or PAYE and make $0 payments, actually. If you're doing volunteer work or just unemployed. And yet the interest rates are 7%. That's going to provide a lot of interest "income" for the feds over the next 10-20 years, which will all need to be bailed out soon after. Nothing more than an accounting gimmick.

[LRGhost]

I wonder if it is currently possible to calculate the overall percentage of students from the Top 50 (US News Tier 1) law schools who actually get a job that pays enough to pay off their debt.

Taking a brief glimpse at the first post of this thread, I would guess than number has to be around 25% or so, and that's only T1 law schools.

I cannot believe this system has gone on as long as it has with such disastrous outcomes.

I don't think that it is possible for most graduates to default, though. If you're on IBR or PAYE (the former not having the arbitrary qualifications of the latter) then even if you're only making $40,000 a year, you can still meet your required monthly payments because it is based on how much you earn. This won't become an issue until the federal government stops lending every damn person who comes their way $300,000 just because they took the LSAT, graduated college, and have a pulse. As long as the fed is the lender and they have these crazy plans that prevent people from realizing how much debt they're actually incurring, we'll just keep using taxpayers' money to cover up the issue.

It's a totally irresponsible way to make the budget look better in the short-term, while sabotaging it in the long term.

You can get on IBR or PAYE and make $0 payments, actually. If you're doing volunteer work or just unemployed. And yet the interest rates are 7%. That's going to provide a lot of interest "income" for the feds over the next 10-20 years, which will all need to be bailed out soon after. Nothing more than an accounting gimmick.

And then there's the tax bomb. The forgiven amount is counted as taxable income. I highly doubt that's going to remain because you'll have a lot of 45 year olds approaching a tax on $150,000 of income that they don't have.

[Tiago Splitter]

And then there's the tax bomb. The forgiven amount is counted as taxable income. I highly doubt that's going to remain because you'll have a lot of 45 year olds approaching a tax on $150,000 of income that they don't have.

It could be changed, but keep in mind that forgiven debt is only taxable to the extent you're solvent.

[ManoftheHour]

I know this isn't relevant at all, but I just wanted to point out that USNWR is not the only reason people think Cornell outdoes itself. I think the "outdoes itself" mentality is largely based on the fact that the standards for admission into Cornell are so much lower than any of the other law schools that place comparably. If you look at the numbers for students who attend Cornell, they are the worst in the T14, and the only other T14 that even comes close to their numbers is GULC (which still has better numbers, even with having to fill a class 3X the size). I'm not saying it matters that Cornell's admission standards are lower, as that shouldn't affect one's decision to go there, but I'm simply pointing out that Cornell does not only outdo itself in employment outcomes as far as USNWR, but it also outdoes itself as far as the (comparatively) low quality of the students there.

(No offense to anyone who attends Cornell, of course)

Why do you hate Cornell so much, lol

[Ricky-Bobby]

I know this isn't relevant at all, but I just wanted to point out that USNWR is not the only reason people think Cornell outdoes itself. I think the "outdoes itself" mentality is largely based on the fact that the standards for admission into Cornell are so much lower than any of the other law schools that place comparably. If you look at the numbers for students who attend Cornell, they are the worst in the T14, and the only other T14 that even comes close to their numbers is GULC (which still has better numbers, even with having to fill a class 3X the size). I'm not saying it matters that Cornell's admission standards are lower, as that shouldn't affect one's decision to go there, but I'm simply pointing out that Cornell does not only outdo itself in employment outcomes as far as USNWR, but it also outdoes itself as far as the (comparatively) low quality of the students there.

(No offense to anyone who attends Cornell, of course)

Why do you hate Cornell so much, lol

They discriminate against white people, duh.

[Princetonlaw68]

I know this isn't relevant at all, but I just wanted to point out that USNWR is not the only reason people think Cornell outdoes itself. I think the "outdoes itself" mentality is largely based on the fact that the standards for admission into Cornell are so much lower than any of the other law schools that place comparably. If you look at the numbers for students who attend Cornell, they are the worst in the T14, and the only other T14 that even comes close to their numbers is GULC (which still has better numbers, even with having to fill a class 3X the size). I'm not saying it matters that Cornell's admission standards are lower, as that shouldn't affect one's decision to go there, but I'm simply pointing out that Cornell does not only outdo itself in employment outcomes as far as USNWR, but it also outdoes itself as far as the (comparatively) low quality of the students there.

(No offense to anyone who attends Cornell, of course)

Why do you hate Cornell so much, lol

I don't hate Cornell at all. I was simply defending my point that Cornell outdoes itself, in every sense (not just because I'm brainwashed by USNWR, which I'm not). I have no problem with a school punching above its weight, and I believe that even if the scores of the students there aren't as high as the students at the rest of the T14 (except possibly GULC), the students who go there were savvy to choose it. More bang for your stats, if you will. (And literally more bang for your buck if you went there on scholarship over other schools that gave you less and are supposed to be "better" even though they really aren't).

[hashashin]

LOL this numerical illiteracy based on relegating GULC to the bottom needs to stop. The school numerically closest to Cornell is Berkeley (the only two schools in the T14 with median LSATs below 168), not Georgetown. Georgetown's medians are slightly higher than Michigan's (equal LSAT, somewhat higher GPA) and slightly lower than NU (equal LSAT, somewhat lower GPA). Cornell, on the other hand, has medians on par with Vandy and Berk, without having Berkeley's quirkiness. In fact, Cornell's TOP 25% LSAT, also 167, is below the median student at every other school in the T-14(excepting Berkeley).

[twenty]

LOL this numerical illiteracy based on relegating GULC to the bottom needs to stop. The school numerically closest to Cornell is Berkeley (the only two schools in the T14 with median LSATs below 168), not Georgetown. Georgetown's medians are slightly higher than Michigan's (equal LSAT, somewhat higher GPA) and slightly lower than NU (equal LSAT, somewhat lower GPA). Cornell, on the other hand, has medians on par with Vandy and Berk, without having Berkeley's quirkiness. In fact, Cornell's TOP 25% LSAT, also 167, is below the median student at every other school in the T-14(excepting Berkeley).

So just to be clear, you bumped a 2-month+ old thread to give us information on LSAT medians in an employment thread?

...

[03152016]

LOL this numerical illiteracy based on relegating GULC to the bottom needs to stop. The school numerically closest to Cornell is Berkeley (the only two schools in the T14 with median LSATs below 168), not Georgetown. Georgetown's medians are slightly higher than Michigan's (equal LSAT, somewhat higher GPA) and slightly lower than NU (equal LSAT, somewhat lower GPA). Cornell, on the other hand, has medians on par with Vandy and Berk, without having Berkeley's quirkiness. In fact, Cornell's TOP 25% LSAT, also 167, is below the median student at every other school in the T-14(excepting Berkeley).

Yeah, totally. Why not, when both of these schools have objectively worse BigFed + BigLaw percentages than Georgetown (without even touching GULC's comparatively very high PI placement/self-selection)?

i am 100% positive that you are the same poster, sock puppeting
both bumped months old threads for seemingly no reason
both posted within a couple hours of each other
both are shilling for gulc, using similar language
both have user names relate to islam
perhaps mod can confirm?

eta: both posters use two spaces instead of one after periods
doesn't show in threads, but shows in the reply screen (just tested, apparently forum automatically corrects double space to single in threads)
so more proof of sockpuppeting

[KD35]

LOL this numerical illiteracy based on relegating GULC to the bottom needs to stop. The school numerically closest to Cornell is Berkeley (the only two schools in the T14 with median LSATs below 168), not Georgetown. Georgetown's medians are slightly higher than Michigan's (equal LSAT, somewhat higher GPA) and slightly lower than NU (equal LSAT, somewhat lower GPA). Cornell, on the other hand, has medians on par with Vandy and Berk, without having Berkeley's quirkiness. In fact, Cornell's TOP 25% LSAT, also 167, is below the median student at every other school in the T-14(excepting Berkeley).

Yeah, totally. Why not, when both of these schools have objectively worse BigFed + BigLaw percentages than Georgetown (without even touching GULC's comparatively very high PI placement/self-selection)?

i am 100% positive that you are the same poster, sock puppeting
both bumped months old threads for seemingly no reason
both posted within a couple hours of each other
both are shilling for gulc, using similar language
both have user names relate to islam
perhaps mod can confirm?

eta: both posters use two spaces instead of one after periods
doesn't show in threads, but shows in the reply screen (just tested, apparently forum automatically corrects double space to single in threads)
so more proof of sockpuppeting

+1

Lawyered.

[cron1834]

Famous Hoya:

[Mack.Hambleton]

Famous Hoya:

Nice

[rayiner]

LOL this numerical illiteracy based on relegating GULC to the bottom needs to stop. The school numerically closest to Cornell is Berkeley (the only two schools in the T14 with median LSATs below 168), not Georgetown. Georgetown's medians are slightly higher than Michigan's (equal LSAT, somewhat higher GPA) and slightly lower than NU (equal LSAT, somewhat lower GPA). Cornell, on the other hand, has medians on par with Vandy and Berk, without having Berkeley's quirkiness. In fact, Cornell's TOP 25% LSAT, also 167, is below the median student at every other school in the T-14(excepting Berkeley).

So just to be clear, you bumped a 2-month+ old thread to give us information on LSAT medians in an employment thread?

...

I find this fixation on small differences in the medians amusing. Who cares about Cornell being 1-point lower than GULC when medians across the lower-T14 are down by 2 points relative to a few years ago? NYU's medians this year (170/3.7) are what Northwestern's were during the boom years. If these small differences mattered, you have to acknowledge that C/O 2016 is materially dumber than C/O 2009-12.

[redsoxfan1989]

LOL this numerical illiteracy based on relegating GULC to the bottom needs to stop. The school numerically closest to Cornell is Berkeley (the only two schools in the T14 with median LSATs below 168), not Georgetown. Georgetown's medians are slightly higher than Michigan's (equal LSAT, somewhat higher GPA) and slightly lower than NU (equal LSAT, somewhat lower GPA). Cornell, on the other hand, has medians on par with Vandy and Berk, without having Berkeley's quirkiness. In fact, Cornell's TOP 25% LSAT, also 167, is below the median student at every other school in the T-14(excepting Berkeley).

Even if this mattered, you leave out the fact that GULC (like Northwestern, Michigan and others in the second half of the T-14) has a much bigger spread between their Top 75% LSAT and their Top 25% LSAT. Cornell's 25% is 165, which is higher than Northwestern (161), GULC (163), Berkeley (163) and tied with Duke and Michigan. I'm not sure why its of any interest (or help) to applicants that other schools game their LSAT number in different ways than Cornell.

[hashashin]

LOL this numerical illiteracy based on relegating GULC to the bottom needs to stop. The school numerically closest to Cornell is Berkeley (the only two schools in the T14 with median LSATs below 168), not Georgetown. Georgetown's medians are slightly higher than Michigan's (equal LSAT, somewhat higher GPA) and slightly lower than NU (equal LSAT, somewhat lower GPA). Cornell, on the other hand, has medians on par with Vandy and Berk, without having Berkeley's quirkiness. In fact, Cornell's TOP 25% LSAT, also 167, is below the median student at every other school in the T-14(excepting Berkeley).

Yeah, totally. Why not, when both of these schools have objectively worse BigFed + BigLaw percentages than Georgetown (without even touching GULC's comparatively very high PI placement/self-selection)?

i am 100% positive that you are the same poster, sock puppeting
both bumped months old threads for seemingly no reason
both posted within a couple hours of each other
both are shilling for gulc, using similar language
both have user names relate to islam
perhaps mod can confirm?

eta: both posters use two spaces instead of one after periods
doesn't show in threads, but shows in the reply screen (just tested, apparently forum automatically corrects double space to single in threads)
so more proof of sockpuppeting

+1

Lawyered.

No need for mod. I confirm it; pretty sure I have before.

[hashashin]

Famous Hoya:

]

LOL don't you go to Michigan?

[A. Nony Mouse]

LOL this numerical illiteracy based on relegating GULC to the bottom needs to stop. The school numerically closest to Cornell is Berkeley (the only two schools in the T14 with median LSATs below 168), not Georgetown. Georgetown's medians are slightly higher than Michigan's (equal LSAT, somewhat higher GPA) and slightly lower than NU (equal LSAT, somewhat lower GPA). Cornell, on the other hand, has medians on par with Vandy and Berk, without having Berkeley's quirkiness. In fact, Cornell's TOP 25% LSAT, also 167, is below the median student at every other school in the T-14(excepting Berkeley).

Yeah, totally. Why not, when both of these schools have objectively worse BigFed + BigLaw percentages than Georgetown (without even touching GULC's comparatively very high PI placement/self-selection)?

i am 100% positive that you are the same poster, sock puppeting
both bumped months old threads for seemingly no reason
both posted within a couple hours of each other
both are shilling for gulc, using similar language
both have user names relate to islam
perhaps mod can confirm?

eta: both posters use two spaces instead of one after periods
doesn't show in threads, but shows in the reply screen (just tested, apparently forum automatically corrects double space to single in threads)
so more proof of sockpuppeting

+1

Lawyered.

No need for mod. I confirm it; pretty sure I have before.

Yeah, except you don't get to do that. One account, no sock-puppeting.

[hashashin]

Yeah, except you don't get to do that. One account, no sock-puppeting.

Hmm; didn't know. Sorry.

[cron1834]

Famous Hoya:

]

LOL don't you go to Michigan?

What is your point? I'm not bragging about lsat medians in an employment thread like some Down's, and I'm not creating multiple accounts like some insecure adolescent. Kindly quit vomiting nonsense on this forum.

[hashashin]

Famous Hoya:

]

LOL don't you go to Michigan?

What is your point? I'm not bragging about lsat medians in an employment thread like some Down's, and I'm not creating multiple accounts like some insecure adolescent. Kindly quit vomiting nonsense on this forum.

I had two accounts because I forgot my password once, douchebag, not because I was pretending to be two people.