Take the money and Run; YS - CCNH? Forum

[ManoftheHour]

How come every time there's a good thread people wanna shut it down?

[cotiger]

How come every time there's a good thread people wanna shut it down?

It's been awhile since this thread provided either relevant arguments or entertainment value. It's time to take it out back and shoot it.

[ga208]

From what I hear from some biglaw senior partners, I get the impression that the cachet of HLS or YS is valuable in the long-run with clients and respect at the firm, and from their perspective the cost is well worth it. So while it may not help that much with the first job, down the road its value is significant.

[kaiser]

From what I hear from some biglaw senior partners, I get the impression that the cachet of HLS or YS is valuable in the long-run with clients and respect at the firm, and from their perspective the cost is well worth it. So while it may not help that much with the first job, down the road its value is significant.

I may have felt the same way as a 0L, but from actual observation as a grad, this just doesn't seem to be the case as far as lateral/exit options from one's first firm job. If anything, it seems to be LESS significant down the road (whereas it may play a huge role in getting you into your first firm since its pretty much the only thing they have to evaluate you on other than objective grades themselves). The respect you build up with clients (and those in your firm) is almost entirely based on their working experiences with you.

[Blessedassurance]

Nonsense to think that the CLS grad who ends up at Cleary will have a different trajectory from the HLS grad who ends up at Cleary. As far as exit options go, the primarily driver will be the work experience at the firm. School name will be well far behind at that point (to the point where it is just a small factor in the equation). Honestly, your point sounds like something a current student/0L would say. I take it you aren't a grad yet?

Think of it sort of like how much your undergraduate school weighs into a law firm's decision to hire you. Rather than look to your undergrad, they look FAR more to your actual law school and your performance there. Apply that same logic to lateral moves/down-the-road exit options. Sure, they may care to some limited extent where you went to school, but they will be looking almost entirely at your body of work, and using your previous firm name as the leading credential that carries you.

you can find the information you need on linkedin. it requires work.

[Blessedassurance]

how come every time someone says something good about harvard someone equates it to bragging about where (s)he went to school?

it's laughable, really. my favorite part is when they make comments about how they wouldn't want to grab a beer with you because you said something online. once you actually meet law students, the joke will make sense to you.

I live in boston pm me and we will grab a beer so you can explain why Harvard Kennedy school is better than darden for investment banking

are you a woman?

[kaiser]

Nonsense to think that the CLS grad who ends up at Cleary will have a different trajectory from the HLS grad who ends up at Cleary. As far as exit options go, the primarily driver will be the work experience at the firm. School name will be well far behind at that point (to the point where it is just a small factor in the equation). Honestly, your point sounds like something a current student/0L would say. I take it you aren't a grad yet?

Think of it sort of like how much your undergraduate school weighs into a law firm's decision to hire you. Rather than look to your undergrad, they look FAR more to your actual law school and your performance there. Apply that same logic to lateral moves/down-the-road exit options. Sure, they may care to some limited extent where you went to school, but they will be looking almost entirely at your body of work, and using your previous firm name as the leading credential that carries you.

you can find the information you need on linkedin. it requires work.

I could just look around at the people I have seen leave my own firm, or my friends' firms. Not a bird's eye observation of the whole legal field, but at least its something real world and tangible (i.e. I'm not just basing it on what they told me in school, or what I may have been told going into school). And I can see clearly how the quality of their exit options largely coorelates with their cache at the firm. The people who just sputtered out ended up at less prestigious places than the people who busted their asses as associates and really built up good reputations and relationships.

[neprep]

i've gotta say this thread has made me happier i've chosen harvard, which is actually the opposite effect it's supposed to have had. luv u all. hls4lyfe

p.s. a couple of people pm'd me supporting me. i'd like to take this moment to thank ALL of my fans, whether they reach out to me via forum post, via pm, or if they have yet to reach out to me. much love

Actually no, the effect that it was supposed to have is persuade someone out of going to HLS for 300K (one of my options). It never applied to your situation (someone receiving a good amount of need based grants, and/or having confirmed support from family).

This thread has in fact managed to further convince me of a position that I sort of already held, which is that unless I hear from my family about their willingness to fund me at HLS, I will "take the money and run" to another school.

[Blessedassurance]

From what I hear from some biglaw senior partners, I get the impression that the cachet of HLS or YS is valuable in the long-run with clients and respect at the firm, and from their perspective the cost is well worth it. So while it may not help that much with the first job, down the road its value is significant.

it does, and it's biggest impact is with people outside the law, which is why harvard has more impact because it dominates the others among laypeople. that was what i was trying to explain w/r/t to the entrepreneurial thing. also, you'd be amazed at harvard's international cachet. there is a pretty large international contigent at hls (harvard will loan you money for law school as an international student) etc etc. you gotta go here (or ys) to understand the various angles.

by the way, i shit on hls more than i prop it up, i literally never pull the prestige card in real life, and i'm chill as fuck. i have no idea why everyone is up in arms.

[Blessedassurance]

Nonsense to think that the CLS grad who ends up at Cleary will have a different trajectory from the HLS grad who ends up at Cleary. As far as exit options go, the primarily driver will be the work experience at the firm. School name will be well far behind at that point (to the point where it is just a small factor in the equation). Honestly, your point sounds like something a current student/0L would say. I take it you aren't a grad yet?

Think of it sort of like how much your undergraduate school weighs into a law firm's decision to hire you. Rather than look to your undergrad, they look FAR more to your actual law school and your performance there. Apply that same logic to lateral moves/down-the-road exit options. Sure, they may care to some limited extent where you went to school, but they will be looking almost entirely at your body of work, and using your previous firm name as the leading credential that carries you.

you can find the information you need on linkedin. it requires work.

I could just look around at the people I have seen leave my own firm, or my friends' firms. Not a bird's eye observation of the whole legal field, but at least its something real world and tangible (i.e. I'm not just basing it on what they told me in school, or what I may have been told going into school). And I can see clearly how the quality of their exit options largely coorelates with their cache at the firm. The people who just sputtered out ended up at less prestigious places than the people who busted their asses as associates and really built up good reputations and relationships.

how about you give me an example of an exit option you consider prestigious and then i will provide you with the numbers? it's easier that way.

[patogordo]

Nonsense to think that the CLS grad who ends up at Cleary will have a different trajectory from the HLS grad who ends up at Cleary. As far as exit options go, the primarily driver will be the work experience at the firm. School name will be well far behind at that point (to the point where it is just a small factor in the equation). Honestly, your point sounds like something a current student/0L would say. I take it you aren't a grad yet?

Think of it sort of like how much your undergraduate school weighs into a law firm's decision to hire you. Rather than look to your undergrad, they look FAR more to your actual law school and your performance there. Apply that same logic to lateral moves/down-the-road exit options. Sure, they may care to some limited extent where you went to school, but they will be looking almost entirely at your body of work, and using your previous firm name as the leading credential that carries you.

you can find the information you need on linkedin. it requires work.

I could just look around at the people I have seen leave my own firm, or my friends' firms. Not a bird's eye observation of the whole legal field, but at least its something real world and tangible (i.e. I'm not just basing it on what they told me in school, or what I may have been told going into school). And I can see clearly how the quality of their exit options largely coorelates with their cache at the firm. The people who just sputtered out ended up at less prestigious places than the people who busted their asses as associates and really built up good reputations and relationships.

how about you give me an example of an exit option you consider prestigious and then i will provide you with the numbers? it's easier that way.

POTUS

[Nelson]

POTUS

HYDuke or bust. Stanford is TTT for BIGPOTUS

[anyriotgirl]

you can ride that CUSE train to VPOTUS though

[KatyMarie]

POTUS

HYDuke or bust. Stanford is TTT for BIGPOTUS

Taft went to Cincinnati...

[anyriotgirl]

fact: there have been more presidents who passed the bar after self-study than presidents who attended HLS

[jbagelboy]

POTUS

HYDuke or bust. Stanford is TTT for BIGPOTUS

Taft went to Cincinnati...

How could you forget the Roosevelt's?

And our current VP at Syracuse

[jbagelboy]

fact: there have been more presidents who passed the bar after self-study than presidents who attended HLS

Well this is because before WWII most attorneys didn't have to graduate from law school to practice. Many prominent jurists, politicians, and even SCOTUS only "attended" law school or did an apprenticeship model.

[anyriotgirl]

fact: there have been more presidents who passed the bar after self-study than presidents who attended HLS

Well this is because before WWII most attorneys didn't have to graduate from law school to practice. Many prominent jurists, politicians, and even SCOTUS only "attended" law school or did an apprenticeship model.

shh not the point

[patogordo]

fact: there have been more presidents who passed the bar after self-study than presidents who attended HLS

Well this is because before WWII most attorneys didn't have to graduate from law school to practice. Many prominent jurists, politicians, and even SCOTUS only "attended" law school or did an apprenticeship model.

yea and the country has been in a steady decline since WWII. coincidence?

[jbagelboy]

Nonsense to think that the CLS grad who ends up at Cleary will have a different trajectory from the HLS grad who ends up at Cleary. As far as exit options go, the primarily driver will be the work experience at the firm. School name will be well far behind at that point (to the point where it is just a small factor in the equation). Honestly, your point sounds like something a current student/0L would say. I take it you aren't a grad yet?

Think of it sort of like how much your undergraduate school weighs into a law firm's decision to hire you. Rather than look to your undergrad, they look FAR more to your actual law school and your performance there. Apply that same logic to lateral moves/down-the-road exit options. Sure, they may care to some limited extent where you went to school, but they will be looking almost entirely at your body of work, and using your previous firm name as the leading credential that carries you.

you can find the information you need on linkedin. it requires work.

I could just look around at the people I have seen leave my own firm, or my friends' firms. Not a bird's eye observation of the whole legal field, but at least its something real world and tangible (i.e. I'm not just basing it on what they told me in school, or what I may have been told going into school). And I can see clearly how the quality of their exit options largely coorelates with their cache at the firm. The people who just sputtered out ended up at less prestigious places than the people who busted their asses as associates and really built up good reputations and relationships.

how about you give me an example of an exit option you consider prestigious and then i will provide you with the numbers? it's easier that way.

Not trying to be a dick or start shit, just honestly curious, to what "numbers" are you referring? Where are you proposing to draw this information about where biglaw associates are headed when they leave, broken down by law school? Other than partner data of course

[quijotesca1011]

fact: there have been more presidents who passed the bar after self-study than presidents who attended HLS

Any one particular law school, actually (providing Wikipedia is a reliable source).

Harvard, Yale, and Columbia are tied for the most president grads with 2 each, so if that factoid is true for HLS is has to be true for all three and by extension true for all law schools…

[SnakySalmon]

fact: there have been more presidents who passed the bar after self-study than presidents who attended HLS

Well this is because before WWII most attorneys didn't have to graduate from law school to practice. Many prominent jurists, politicians, and even SCOTUS only "attended" law school or did an apprenticeship model.

Interestingly, a young Lyndon Johnson attempted to do this in one of the last states to let you sit for the bar without law school, but the law was changed before he could do it, so he went back to Texas.

[jbagelboy]

fact: there have been more presidents who passed the bar after self-study than presidents who attended HLS

Well this is because before WWII most attorneys didn't have to graduate from law school to practice. Many prominent jurists, politicians, and even SCOTUS only "attended" law school or did an apprenticeship model.

yea and the country has been in a steady decline since WWII. coincidence?

Lol. The decline of the common lawyer as the decline of america.

[charlie.black]

POTUS

HYDuke or bust. Stanford is TTT for BIGPOTUS

Taft went to Cincinnati...

How could you forget the Roosevelt's?

And our current VP at Syracuse

and was almost thrown out for cheating...impressive.

[Blessedassurance]

Not trying to be a dick or start shit, just honestly curious, to what "numbers" are you referring? Where are you proposing to draw this information about where biglaw associates are headed when they leave, broken down by law school? Other than partner data of course

we already know hls convincingly beats ccn (and s) for academia, and DOMINATES everyone else for partnerships:

patnerships (yes, we all realize the problems with this):

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... where.html

so i'm giving him the choice to come up with any other given exist option he considers "prestigious."

interestingly, nobody ever asks the yalies where they end up. a bunch of them flame out of law altogether. you have been espousing the yale line forever. why don't you provide us with some data concerning yale?