So what makes Alabama a T30 law school? Forum

[atlantalaw]

I'd choose Florida State, Kentucky, etc., over Bama.

this is ridiculous.

if you want to practice in florida, fsu > bama. kentucky and alabama seem like equally undesirable states so i can't explain the other one.

[danquayle]

I'd choose Florida State, Kentucky, etc., over Bama.

this is ridiculous.

I'd rather work in Kentucky or Florida than Alabama. How is that ridiculous?

[danquayle]

I'd choose Florida State, Kentucky, etc., over Bama.

this is ridiculous.

if you want to practice in florida, fsu > bama. kentucky and alabama seem like equally undesirable states so i can't explain the other one.

Louisville isn't so bad.

[General Tso]

and Kentucky has a more beautiful environment than Alabama.

Alabama just sucks, both the school and the state
/thread

[OperaSoprano]

Interesting.

Here's what actually happened: Fordham did cut the PT program from 160 to 120, but there was a lot of demand, so many more waitlistees than usual were admitted this summer. The class size is now back up to 160. I'm glad my school had enough integrity not to game the rankings and make students suffer. I look at our #30 differently now, because I know it means Fordham refused to screw people over just to get to #25. I think people know we're a better school than the ranking would indicate.

I agree that Fordham probably lost some ground because of the PT stats, its not clear to me that they didn't pay more attention to LSAT scores in admitting PT students this year, as someone in the previous thread you linked to suggested.

p.s: The difference between #30 and #26 isn't large enough get worked up about in my opinion, but maybe I'm in the minority.

Oh, you're absolutely right. I was initially convinced the school hated me, but couldn't reject me because they needed by 75th percentile LSAT score. Just from watching the news on TLS, though, I know they let in some people with lower scores in June and July, and I believe this was done to expand the class. I counted the people on my roster last night, and the class size now stands at 157. Fordham PT has a yield over 70% (it's the holy grail admit for anyone on the northeast with a 160-164 and < 3.5) but this late in the summer, it might be harder to get people to come, hence the number of new admits. The yield rate is not speculation, FWIW. Our dean told me when I sat down with him. He's a hell of a guy, and he let me know that I was hand picked (for something other than having a 164, lol). I was seriously shocked that he remembered details from my file.

Now I'll quit highjacking this thread. Back to discussion of Alabama, please!

[ruleser]

Alabama T30 because Southern girls rule?

[rondemarino]

Alabama T30 because Southern girls rule?

+1, at least the ones I've met in Cancun!

[marshalltucker]

Sorry for bumping but jsut found this and am interested to know if anyone has any more thoughts.

[danquayle]

Alabama is aggressively recruiting a high caliber of students through the use of cheap tuition and scholarship money. Its essentially the Indiana of the South, but in my opinion in a better position, since the South doesn't have nearly as many well regarded law schools and is growing in population.

It's prestige isn't quite Top 30, but prestige is clearly a lagging indicator. If they maintain their class profile and ranking, the prestige will probably begin to accumulate...

[najumobi]

I mean is it really better than UGA, Tulane, SMU? Am I to believe that it is as good a school as UNC?

All the schools you have listed are regional schools with decent placement in their respective regions...

Alabama will not give you better in placement in Georgia than UGA, nor in Texas than SMU. I am not going to comment on Tulane because the Tulane trolls will come in and argue that Tulane has national placement...

hahaha

[najumobi]

Alabama is aggressively recruiting a high caliber of students through the use of cheap tuition and scholarship money. Its essentially the Indiana of the South, but in my opinion in a better position, since the South doesn't have nearly as many well regarded law schools and is growing in population.

It's prestige isn't quite Top 30, but prestige is clearly a lagging indicator. If they maintain their class profile and ranking, the prestige will probably begin to accumulate...

okay let's compare the unc and alabama...two southern schools ranked at 30.

~150 alabama students per class; ~250 unc students per class
~75% of alabama grads stay in-state; 60% of unc grads stay in-state
~90% of alabama students employed job by graduation; vs ~70% for unc students

79% of alabama grads working in private sector (70% firms, 9% "business")
72% of unc grads working in private sector (63% firms, 9% "business")
top 48.5% @ alabama making at least 60k/yr; top 41.5% @ unc making at least 65k/yr

21% @ alabama in public service making median of 47k/yr; 24% @ unc in ps making 43.5k/yr
8% @ alabama in govt; 9% @ unc in govt
7% @ alabama in clerkships (100% federal);8% @ unc in clerkships (25% federal)
5% @ alabama in public interest; 6% @ unc in public interest

it seems like alabama's size gives it an advatage; also there more than twice as many law schools in north carolina looking for jobs than in alabama.

[de5igual]

it seems like alabama's size gives it an advatage; also there more than twice as many law schools in north carolina looking for jobs than in alabama.

at the same time, NC has the research triangle, Winston-Salem, Charlotte and Greensboro. Alabama only has Birmingham

[najumobi]

it seems like alabama's size gives it an advatage; also there more than twice as many law schools in north carolina looking for jobs than in alabama.

at the same time, NC has the research triangle, Winston-Salem, Charlotte and Greensboro. Alabama only has Birmingham

alabama has birmingham, mobile, hunstville, and montgomery...about half the size of charlotte, greenbsboro/winstonsalem, and the triangle. but again they have half as many law students graduating. and all the law grads that compete against alabama's are from TTT (samford and faulkner). but then again 17% of alabama grads are personal injury lawyers compared to unc's 11%, so maybe you're on to something.

[jeeptiger09]

I can definitely understand Alabama's late rise in the rankings. As someone posted, they have very cheap tuition and are well endowed with money to give out for scholarships. But I think it should be noted that the south, while similar to other places in this respect, is all about regional schools. If you want to work in Mississippi, you go to Ole Miss; if you want Georgia, you go to UGA; etc. This is more prevalent in the south because the big cities aren't as large as those in the midwest or northeast (exception: Atlanta).

So while Bama is doing a good job ranking wise, I wouldn't go there unless I wanted to live in Alabama (maybe a little Atlanta).

[09042014]

How do they enforce the rule of no caffeine, tea, alcohol, etc?

I'm not trying to troll, I'm generally curious.

For clarification, they don't have a rule against caffeine. I work at a BYU department and pretty much all of my co-workers grab Mountain Dew for lunch. (Some individuals choose not to drink caffeine because they personally believe it's healthier for them to avoid it.)

As for enforcing rules against tea and alcohol, it's enforced primarily by the Honor Code Office (HCO). The HCO takes reports from any student, faculty, or roommates about students who aren't complying with the Honor Code. If no one ever reports you, then you'd never have any action taken against you (so long as you don't show up on BYU campus half-drunk or with pot on you). If any legal action is taken against you (e.g. DUI) that gets reported to the University, you'd also have action taken.

A few things. Just because someone is reported doesn't mean the HCO necessarily accepts the report as fact. They may ask the student about it, but if there's nothing to back up a claim, they generally dismiss it. Second, even if a student does violate that, the HCO will permit the student to stay, but may have a probationary period. It's definitely WAY more strict than 95% of schools, but it is not an undercover agency trying to destroy students' lives.

Kind of sounds like it is.

[NayBoer]

Najumobi, where did you get all those numbers? Especially interested in the proportion working personal injury.

[najumobi]

Najumobi, where did you get all those numbers? Especially interested in the proportion working personal injury.

the personal injury stat was from martindale.... it's from the collection of lawyer listed on martindale that have graduated throughout the years from each particular school. for HYS the percentage working in personal injury is like 1%, for the rest of the top 14 it's around 3%/4%. and for vandy/texas/ucla,usc it's at 5%-7%.

the other data i mentioned was from usnews, 2007 gruaduating classes.

[NayBoer]

Najumobi, where did you get all those numbers? Especially interested in the proportion working personal injury.

the personal injury stat was from martindale.... it's from the collection of lawyer listed on martindale that have graduated throughout the years from each particular school. for HYS the percentage working in personal injury is like 1%, for the rest of the top 14 it's around 3%/4%. and for vandy/texas/ucla,usc it's at 5%-7%.

the other data i mentioned was from usnews, 2007 gruaduating classes.

Ah, thanks. Is martindale free? Because I'm pretty sure my firm pays to be listed there. Definitely pays to get listed in the print edition.

If it's still pay-only, then small-margin and small-name firms are probably underrepresented.

[LSATfromNC]

So what makes Alabama a T30 law school?

US News says so

[najumobi]

Najumobi, where did you get all those numbers? Especially interested in the proportion working personal injury.

the personal injury stat was from martindale.... it's from the collection of lawyer listed on martindale that have graduated throughout the years from each particular school. for HYS the percentage working in personal injury is like 1%, for the rest of the top 14 it's around 3%/4%. and for vandy/texas/ucla,usc it's at 5%-7%.

the other data i mentioned was from usnews, 2007 gruaduating classes.

Ah, thanks. Is martindale free? Because I'm pretty sure my firm pays to be listed there. Definitely pays to get listed in the print edition.

If it's still pay-only, then small-margin and small-name firms are probably underrepresented.

oh...wow...i didn't know firms had to pay.

do you think firms that deal with personal injury are more or less likely to be the ones that are small-margin/small-name?

[thickfreakness]

This is a very interesting thread. I'm inclined to agree with others that Alabama's placement isn't at the level of similarly ranked schools. The increase in rank is a result of attracting increasingly competitive entering classes and notable professors. I think the reason Alabama gets more than their share of well qualified applicants is because their entire staff treats admitted students very, very well and they throw scholarship money at applicants with competitive files. Also, like some others have mentioned, I think that Alabama's prestige will increase so long as they continue to enroll applicants with high numbers.

[NayBoer]

Najumobi, where did you get all those numbers? Especially interested in the proportion working personal injury.

the personal injury stat was from martindale.... it's from the collection of lawyer listed on martindale that have graduated throughout the years from each particular school. for HYS the percentage working in personal injury is like 1%, for the rest of the top 14 it's around 3%/4%. and for vandy/texas/ucla,usc it's at 5%-7%.

the other data i mentioned was from usnews, 2007 gruaduating classes.

Ah, thanks. Is martindale free? Because I'm pretty sure my firm pays to be listed there. Definitely pays to get listed in the print edition.

If it's still pay-only, then small-margin and small-name firms are probably underrepresented.

oh...wow...i didn't know firms had to pay.

do you think firms that deal with personal injury are more or less likely to be the ones that are small-margin/small-name?

Not sure. Also, it may or may not be free to get listed in the online version, I'm not sure which.

I don't know how it skews, but it could be that the worst jobs are under-represented. However, I think lawyers.com and martindale.com pull from the same data (my firm appears on both and when it was in my job description I edited one profile and both profiles would change). Lawyers.com might be a good investment for personal injury, since they have an above-average need to bring in lots of clients, and lawyers.com is probably a place lots of people start looking. Or maybe they rely on TV, radio, etc. to do their ads.

Sorry, can't tell you much. I'd probably still use it to get an idea of where grads land, just remind yourself that it's incomplete.

[XxSpyKEx]

This is why Bama is a t30:
DELETED

[FuturehoyaLawya]

Alabama is one of the most overrated schools in the entire USNWR rankings. It should be somewhere in the mid '40s. It's in the same league as schools like UGA, Tulane, Florida, Colorado, and BYU.

US News doesn't agree

[bboy86]

The one thing that Emory does have a clear leg up on UGA is farther reach (especially when it comes to NYC). Federal clerkships are around the same, Emory gets a little better placement into biglaw, etc. but for the median student at each school, there really isn't going to be that big of a difference. The starkest difference will probably be when comparing the top quarters of each class.

Emory places higher in NYC because more Emory students come from NYC compared to UGA. Over 70% of UGA students come from Georgia. I doubt you could say it was the law school that placed people in the city they came from across the country.