Cornell (Half) vs. StJohn's (Full) Forum

[Nachoo2019]

You should also think about what your employment plans are. That's the only reason I would choose SJU over Cornell. I knew that I wanted to be a NYC prosecutor, so SJU made sense. If you're unsure, then go to Cornell.
The debt is worth the mobility that a JD from Cornell would provide.

Did SJU prepare you for a role as a NYC prosecutor?

I'm worried that the debt may restrict me in terms of the types of jobs I can afford to choose, since I'll be paying back my loans. I'm still figuring out all the ins and outs of Cornell's LRAP program to see if it's really worth it.

Also, right now, I'm more debating between Cornell and Fordham/Cardozo. Idk how to change the title of this thread to reflect that, but if you have any opinions on that please let me know. They both have good reps in NYC and I'll save money in cost of living, since I already live here and the tuition will be cheaper.

Edit: you do you lol

[A. Nony Mouse]

Did SJU prepare you for a role as a NYC prosecutor?

All schools prepare you equally well for future employment, which is to say, the quality of education is going to be pretty much the same everywhere (except to the extent the quality of your classmates makes a difference), and no law school prepares you especially well for practice.

[encore1101]

You should also think about what your employment plans are. That's the only reason I would choose SJU over Cornell. I knew that I wanted to be a NYC prosecutor, so SJU made sense. If you're unsure, then go to Cornell.
The debt is worth the mobility that a JD from Cornell would provide.

Did SJU prepare you for a role as a NYC prosecutor?

I'm worried that the debt may restrict me in terms of the types of jobs I can afford to choose, since I'll be paying back my loans. I'm still figuring out all the ins and outs of Cornell's LRAP program to see if it's really worth it.

Also, right now, I'm more debating between Cornell and Fordham/Cardozo. Idk how to change the title of this thread to reflect that, but if you have any opinions on that please let me know. They both have good reps in NYC and I'll save money in cost of living, since I already live here and the tuition will be cheaper.

Like Anon.mouse said, SJU didn't especially "prepare" me (moreso than any other NYC school would have), but it gave me networking opportunities that may have not been found elsewhere. SJU has several adjunct professors who were, or are, NYC prosecutors. They have historically placed a good amount of students in every NYC DA office, sans Manhattan. SJU also has the Prosecutor's Clinic, which is run by the Bureau Chief of the Domestic Violence Bureau at Queens DA Office. Fordham also has a Prosecutor's Clinic, that is ran by an Supervisor ADA from Queens.

Between Fordham and Cardozo, I'd probably just go with Fordham. They have a slightly higher employment score, and I think they have a slightly better reputation than Cardozo. Fordham may be more expensive, but again, the mobility is probably worth it.

[Dr. Nefario]

Cornell is by and far the best option you have. Outside of NYU/COL its the NY school that will most likely land you a job in the city. If you go PI, their LRAP is plenty good enough to help you. If you go biglaw, you can pay back those loans. Its a pretty good school.

[pterodactyls]

Cornell has LRAP and will pay back your loans if you're working in law the public sector (given that you stay in public sector for 10 years). And it will give you way better job opportunities.

The risk to LRAP is:
1. You don't stay in public sector for 10 years
2. The federal government changes the program and does not grandfather current borrowers

The risk of #2 is actually pretty low, in my opinion. If you think you may be going back and forth from public to private sector (#1), that's something to consider.

But still, it's Cornell...

[silverdoe91]

Can whoever voted for an option other than Cornell please speak up and tell me why they did, either on here or PM me? So far, I've only heard from people who think I should go to Cornell, so it's been a very one-sided discussion. I would greatly appreciate the additional perspective!

[silverdoe91]

Cornell has LRAP and will pay back your loans if you're working in law the public sector (given that you stay in public sector for 10 years). And it will give you way better job opportunities.

The risk to LRAP is:
1. You don't stay in public sector for 10 years
2. The federal government changes the program and does not grandfather current borrowers

The risk of #2 is actually pretty low, in my opinion. If you think you may be going back and forth from public to private sector (#1), that's something to consider.

But still, it's Cornell...

I'm looking up more info about their LRAP program now so I can figure out exactly how it'll work...do you have any personal experience with it from Cornell or any other school?

[cavalier1138]

Cornell has LRAP and will pay back your loans if you're working in law the public sector (given that you stay in public sector for 10 years). And it will give you way better job opportunities.

The risk to LRAP is:
1. You don't stay in public sector for 10 years
2. The federal government changes the program and does not grandfather current borrowers

The risk of #2 is actually pretty low, in my opinion. If you think you may be going back and forth from public to private sector (#1), that's something to consider.

But still, it's Cornell...

I'm looking up more info about their LRAP program now so I can figure out exactly how it'll work...do you have any personal experience with it from Cornell or any other school?

I could swear this was linked earlier in the thread... http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5&t=262492

And the reason you aren't hearing from the people who aren't voting for Cornell is that they're trolling you. Go to Cornell.

[silverdoe91]

Cornell has LRAP and will pay back your loans if you're working in law the public sector (given that you stay in public sector for 10 years). And it will give you way better job opportunities.

The risk to LRAP is:
1. You don't stay in public sector for 10 years
2. The federal government changes the program and does not grandfather current borrowers

The risk of #2 is actually pretty low, in my opinion. If you think you may be going back and forth from public to private sector (#1), that's something to consider.

But still, it's Cornell...

I'm looking up more info about their LRAP program now so I can figure out exactly how it'll work...do you have any personal experience with it from Cornell or any other school?

I could swear this was linked earlier in the thread... http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5&t=262492

And the reason you aren't hearing from the people who aren't voting for Cornell is that they're trolling you. Go to Cornell.

Yes, I've been using that link to learn more about the program, but hearing about someone's personal experience with the program would be helpful too. Sometimes a program might sound better on paper than in reality; when it is applied, you may not be eligible for a lot of the benefits, for example.

[cavalier1138]

Yes, I've been using that link to learn more about the program, but hearing about someone's personal experience with the program would be helpful too. Sometimes a program might sound better on paper than in reality; when it is applied, you may not be eligible for a lot of the benefits, for example.

That spreadsheet spells out eligibility pretty clearly though. What type of job are you envisioning might not be eligible?

[jdmonkey]

Cornell will help you get the PI job in the first place. Places like the NY District Attorney or large PD offices like to hire people from T-14's. PI jobs can also be harder to get than big law depending on what you want to do. Only 57% of law school grads are offered full time jobs in the legal industry, See The Trouble with Lawyers by Deborah Rhode, so I wouldn't assume you would lock up PI from St. John's.

[Traynor Brah]

For someone who got a half ride to cornell, you're not very smart.

[silverdoe91]

Cornell will help you get the PI job in the first place. Places like the NY District Attorney or large PD offices like to hire people from T-14's. PI jobs can also be harder to get than big law depending on what you want to do. Only 57% of law school grads are offered full time jobs in the legal industry, See The Trouble with Lawyers by Deborah Rhode, so I wouldn't assume you would lock up PI from St. John's.

Thanks for the recommendation; I will check it out! Attorneys I've spoken to at well-known public interest non-profits in NYC have told me the majority of their colleagues graduate from Cardozo or CUNY. I volunteered at one of these non-profits and that was the case for most of the lawyers there as well. So I don't know if it's worth it to spend an exuberant amount of money on Cornell if that's what I want to do. Cardozo can also give me the leeway I want with non-PI work too. Then again, maybe Cornell can open up PI doors for me I haven't even imagined yet, such policy advocacy or legislative work. However, I looked through their course offerings and they do not offer as much in terms of PI-focused coursework as other schools in NYC do, so that concerns me.

[silverdoe91]

Yes, I've been using that link to learn more about the program, but hearing about someone's personal experience with the program would be helpful too. Sometimes a program might sound better on paper than in reality; when it is applied, you may not be eligible for a lot of the benefits, for example.

That spreadsheet spells out eligibility pretty clearly though. What type of job are you envisioning might not be eligible?

I've been told by colleagues at a non-profit that some non-profits are not eligible and thus people are left out in the cold, where their LRAP cannot help them with their loans, simply because the organization they are working for does not meet all of the requirements their school has.

[silverdoe91]

For someone who got a half ride to cornell, you're not very smart.

Just because I like to weigh all of my options before making a decision does not mean I lack intelligence. And if I do lack intelligence and Cornell still gave me a half a ride, what does that say about Cornell? Perhaps the system is broken, in which case, it would do me best to think twice about Cornell's offer.

[lymenheimer]

Mods, please lock this thread. It's gotten to a ridiculous point. There are plenty of arguments. Let the OP make his own bed at this point.

[NUDad]

So I don't know if it's worth it to spend an exuberant amount of money on Cornell ...

Is anyone exuberant about paying their law school tuition?

"exorbitant" is the word, I think!

I'd choose Cornell in a heartbeat over the other options, but good luck with whatever course you choose.

[deepseapartners]

For someone who got a half ride to cornell, you're not very smart.

Just because I like to weigh all of my options before making a decision does not mean I lack intelligence. And if I do lack intelligence and Cornell still gave me a half a ride, what does that say about Cornell? Perhaps the system is broken, in which case, it would do me best to think twice about Cornell's offer.

Your responses have gone from "weigh[ing] all of [your] options" to one I would charitably describe as "totally committed to paying no money to attend law school, based on anecdotal employment outcome evidence." The main message from this particular message board is that people should be as informed as possible about choosing a legal career, and consequently, that anecdotal evidence is not good information in the vast, vast majority of cases regarding a potential legal career. You have refused to budge from your initial assumptions, no matter how many people who have been through this same "choosing a law school" experience have told you that you are working off dangerous presumptions.

[Rigo]

Just go to Cardozo then OP. Damn. What was the point of this thread even if you're going to be stubborn and ignore the most lopsided poll I've ever seen here?

[michlaw]

Anyway

[arisboddle]

Then again, maybe Cornell can open up PI doors for me I haven't even imagined yet, such policy advocacy or legislative work. However, I looked through their course offerings and they do not offer as much in terms of PI-focused coursework as other schools in NYC do, so that concerns me.

Dude, are you mentally ill? You're basing this decision on the PI-focused "coursework" available? Not once in my 6 years as an atty has anyone asked about my coursework. Law school and law practice are two very different things.

Go to Cornell. Are you trolling for St. Johns or something?

[Budfox55]

lol...144/152 say Cornell.

[jbagelboy]

this is absolutely not even a question. how could this thread possibly go five pages.

Cornell without a shadow of a doubt.

OP, you also seem to have a distressingly misguided and highly idiosyncratic view of legal hiring and the industry you're about to get into. I suggest doing some research on this website about summer associate positions (what you call "internships"), large firms, public interest organizations, and other legal employers, how and where they recruit.

[cavalier1138]

Yes, I've been using that link to learn more about the program, but hearing about someone's personal experience with the program would be helpful too. Sometimes a program might sound better on paper than in reality; when it is applied, you may not be eligible for a lot of the benefits, for example.

That spreadsheet spells out eligibility pretty clearly though. What type of job are you envisioning might not be eligible?

I've been told by colleagues at a non-profit that some non-profits are not eligible and thus people are left out in the cold, where their LRAP cannot help them with their loans, simply because the organization they are working for does not meet all of the requirements their school has.

I assume that any PSLF-eligible position will qualify, but most of the T14 are even more flexible with that. And since you have no clue what you want to do, take the better LRAP program, which is Cornell.

The fact that you are still considering SJU is utterly incomprehensible to me.

[somethingElse]

I still vote retake, which should have been in the poll from the start and I wager would have gotten some votes.