Penn vs. Michigan Forum

[fliptrip]

just pick the school with the happiest studnets dude, clearly they are doin somethin right

I am 99.9% sure at this point that I'm going to Penn. After visiting both, the overall feel/location of Penn was a hundred times better than Michigan (completely subjective, I'm sure there are tons of people who feel the opposite). But even though I am really debt averse, i would rather take the gamble with a school that has stronger placement even if it is higher debt. Penn's job prospects + higher debt are more appealing than Michigan's (still good, but not AS good) job prospects and reasonable debt. I'd also rather get acclimated to city life now instead of during biglaw (provided I get it).
The advice here was SUPER helpful, thank you everyone who contributed!!

damn..mich was that badd..hopefuly the atmosphere is better at preview

If it's not I'd be very afraid. If they can't even put on a happy face for the show weekend, that's an issue, I'd think.

[slizerd]

damn..mich was that badd..hopefuly the atmosphere is better at preview

I've only heard good things about their preview weekends, so I think that will still be a good time. I got a really bad vibe from everyone in the admissions office, and from the handful of students I spoke to, but it could have just been the day. I was honestly shocked by it because I really expected to fall in love with it based on their fun, personalized correspondence this cycle

[michlaw]

Penn is the better choice. Congrats. I will take exception however to the statement that Philly is a nicer town than Ann Arbor to go to school in. Philly just ain't that nice a place at all unless you never plan to leave the campus or the historic district. Ann Arbor is always in the top 10 college towns with lots to do and very safe. Still... Penn is a superior school.

[slizerd]

Penn is the better choice. Congrats. I will take exception however to the statement that Philly is a nicer town than Ann Arbor to go to school in. Philly just ain't that nice a place at all unless you never plan to leave the campus or the historic district. Ann Arbor is always in the top 10 college towns with lots to do and very safe. Still... Penn is a superior school.

Thank you! I am pretty nervous about living in a big city for the first time, but I feel like Philly is a better "starter city" than someplace like NYC. I will be sad to miss out on the safety of Ann Arbor though

[Tls2016]

OP: I have a feeling you're going to do great in Philadelphia and really enjoy Penn. Good luck!

[fliptrip]

Penn is the better choice. Congrats. I will take exception however to the statement that Philly is a nicer town than Ann Arbor to go to school in. Philly just ain't that nice a place at all unless you never plan to leave the campus or the historic district. Ann Arbor is always in the top 10 college towns with lots to do and very safe. Still... Penn is a superior school.

Just for the fun of it...are you referencing actual experience attending school in Philly or living in the city?

[052220152]

yah penn is the demonstrably better school.

michigan's preview weekend, esspecially the first one, are pretty crackin

[slizerd]

OP: I have a feeling you're going to do great in Philadelphia and really enjoy Penn. Good luck!

Thank you!! it's been difficult not to ignore work and spend all my time looking at apartments/things to do in Philadelphia

[Budfox55]

Center City and University City are awesome. Lots of things to do, clean, and a really cool overall community. Unfortunately the area is not too big and once you get out of it, well...just don't head west or northeast. "In West Philadelphia born and raised..."

[fliptrip]

Center City and University City are awesome. Lots of things to do, clean, and a really cool overall community. Unfortunately the area is not too big and once you get out of it, well...just don't head west or northeast. "In West Philadelphia born and raised..."

Society Hill/Penn's Landing/South Street are also perfectly wonderful places to hang out and do things. I mean, hell, Penn is in an urban core area, so if you think you will struggle with seeing homeless folks, or your random ne'er-do-well, or uncouth person driving down Walnut street at 80 miles an hour, you should DEFINITELY go somewhere more "suburban". But, if you think you can use your brain and common sense to avoid dangerous areas and activities and you'll be juuuuuust fine.

[slizerd]

Center City and University City are awesome. Lots of things to do, clean, and a really cool overall community. Unfortunately the area is not too big and once you get out of it, well...just don't head west or northeast. "In West Philadelphia born and raised..."

I LOVED walking around Center City when I visited Penn! And I may or may not have reenacted parts of Rocky...
Now the real struggle begins: apartment hunting

[fliptrip]

Center City and University City are awesome. Lots of things to do, clean, and a really cool overall community. Unfortunately the area is not too big and once you get out of it, well...just don't head west or northeast. "In West Philadelphia born and raised..."

I LOVED walking around Center City when I visited Penn! And I may or may not have reenacted parts of Rocky...
Now the real struggle begins: apartment hunting

I'd definitely live on the other side of the river. West of 40th street living is for loony undergrads and overworked grad students. No idea where the law school folks live, but I'd rather live around the Whartonites on like 23rd and Walnut/Chestnut.

[slizerd]

Center City and University City are awesome. Lots of things to do, clean, and a really cool overall community. Unfortunately the area is not too big and once you get out of it, well...just don't head west or northeast. "In West Philadelphia born and raised..."

I LOVED walking around Center City when I visited Penn! And I may or may not have reenacted parts of Rocky...
Now the real struggle begins: apartment hunting

I'd definitely live on the other side of the river. West of 40th street living is for loony undergrads and overworked grad students. No idea where the law school folks live, but I'd rather live around the Whartonites on like 23rd and Walnut/Chestnut.

I've been looking at apartments ~10 minutes west of the law school that seem fairly nice. No matter where I look, it's going to be hard to move on from the $600 2BR price I pay now

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

Penn is the better choice. Congrats. I will take exception however to the statement that Philly is a nicer town than Ann Arbor to go to school in. Philly just ain't that nice a place at all unless you never plan to leave the campus or the historic district. Ann Arbor is always in the top 10 college towns with lots to do and very safe. Still... Penn is a superior school.

Thank you! I am pretty nervous about living in a big city for the first time, but I feel like Philly is a better "starter city" than someplace like NYC. I will be sad to miss out on the safety of Ann Arbor though

I don't even think NYC is that great, but NYC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philly...so don't let living in Philly ruin cities

Philly is a shithole

[Budfox55]

Center City and University City are awesome. Lots of things to do, clean, and a really cool overall community. Unfortunately the area is not too big and once you get out of it, well...just don't head west or northeast. "In West Philadelphia born and raised..."

I LOVED walking around Center City when I visited Penn! And I may or may not have reenacted parts of Rocky...
Now the real struggle begins: apartment hunting

I'd definitely live on the other side of the river. West of 40th street living is for loony undergrads and overworked grad students. No idea where the law school folks live, but I'd rather live around the Whartonites on like 23rd and Walnut/Chestnut.

I've been looking at apartments ~10 minutes west of the law school that seem fairly nice. No matter where I look, it's going to be hard to move on from the $600 2BR price I pay now

So you can say that I have some personal insight here and as Flip said I'd be wary of living west. You're going to run into a lot of drunk frat boys on weekends between 40th-43rd. A lot of med/biz/law students tend to live in In the 20s south of market as Flip mentioned and that area has a real community feel. I would recommend it as well. You're also close enough to all the things center city has to offer, the shenanigans of south street, and are probably a 15-20 min walk from the law school.

[slizerd]

So you can say that I have some personal insight here and as Flip said I'd be wary of living west. You're going to run into a lot of drunk frat boys on weekends between 40th-43rd. A lot of med/biz/law students tend to live in In the 20s south of market as Flip mentioned and that area has a real community feel. I would recommend it as well. You're also close enough to all the things center city has to offer, the shenanigans of south street, and are probably a 15-20 min walk from the law school.

Thanks! I will definitely look in this area. Would it be OK if I PM you (and flip too) for your opinion on certain apartments after I narrow it down a bit more? You guys' Philly experience is invaluable!

[Budfox55]

Center City and University City are awesome. Lots of things to do, clean, and a really cool overall community. Unfortunately the area is not too big and once you get out of it, well...just don't head west or northeast. "In West Philadelphia born and raised..."

Society Hill/Penn's Landing/South Street are also perfectly wonderful places to hang out and do things. I mean, hell, Penn is in an urban core area, so if you think you will struggle with seeing homeless folks, or your random ne'er-do-well, or uncouth person driving down Walnut street at 80 miles an hour, you should DEFINITELY go somewhere more "suburban". But, if you think you can use your brain and common sense to avoid dangerous areas and activities and you'll be juuuuuust fine.

Yea I was lumping those areas into "Center City". And as much as a lot of those areas outside of University City and greater Center City aren't exactly the best areas out there, after NY and Chi from a pure location standpoint, I think Penn has the best location in the t14. I'm also biased as I like large urban cities.

[Budfox55]

So you can say that I have some personal insight here and as Flip said I'd be wary of living west. You're going to run into a lot of drunk frat boys on weekends between 40th-43rd. A lot of med/biz/law students tend to live in In the 20s south of market as Flip mentioned and that area has a real community feel. I would recommend it as well. You're also close enough to all the things center city has to offer, the shenanigans of south street, and are probably a 15-20 min walk from the law school.

Thanks! I will definitely look in this area. Would it be OK if I PM you (and flip too) for your opinion on certain apartments after I narrow it down a bit more? You guys' Philly experience is invaluable!

Shoot.

[fliptrip]

I don't even think NYC is that great, but NYC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philly...so don't let living in Philly ruin cities

Philly is a shithole

Oh my God...Philly is not a shithole. Most particularly, the part of Philly you're going to be in is not a shithole at all. I am always curious to know how much Philly exposure these Philly haters have. If you've been there once or God forbid you're basing your opinion on what Will Smith said about the place 25 years ago (and he was just talking about one part of Philly). Let me tell you how it really is:

1. Philly is not New York. Philly lost that battle 200 years ago and has never recovered. It's part of the fabric of the city, and the first thing I promise you any New Yorker will do upon arriving in Philly is point out that Philly is not New York. That's a good thing and a bad thing.
2. Just like any city, your experience will vary depending on where you go. Just as you would not randomly wander to the Bronx if you were at Columbia, you sure as hell better not wander past 48th street or anywhere near North Philly if you're at Penn. That would be a bad idea. If you can manage to stay in the area roughly bounded by 48th street to the west, Baltimore Avenue to the south, The Delaware River to the East and Market Street on the north, you will be fine and you'll have all the city trappings you could want. You can even get a little bolder and wander up around Fairmount and Kelly Drive (that's your Art Museum/Franklin Institute kind of area) and all those wonderful spots.
3. It is highly unlikely you're sticking around Philly after school anyway, so it's not like you're marrying the place. It will provide you everything you need while you're in law school and then you can skedaddle to a city that whysoserious finds more acceptable.

[cron1834]

Guys, this is an OP that makes decisions based on campus walking tours and somehow concluded that Mich doesn't have full-time admissions staff. Clearly this is wasted energy.

In other news I've never been to Phi and would love to try it sometime.

[michlaw]

You are still making a good decision but as for Michigan admissions... Dean Z is the best in the business.

[slizerd]

Guys, this is an OP that makes decisions based on campus walking tours and somehow concluded that Mich doesn't have full-time admissions staff. Clearly this is wasted energy.

In other news I've never been to Phi and would love to try it sometime.

The conversation now is about areas of Philly, so wasted energy how? I've already made a decision based off of employment numbers and where I would most like to live for the next 3 years, but I am glad you were able to weigh in! Hope that comment didn't waste your energy!

[slizerd]

You are still making a good decision but as for Michigan admissions... Dean Z is the best in the business.

Don't get me wrong, Dean Z seems AWESOME, and I wish I could've been able to meet her. But on a normal day the rest of admissions was not as awesome as they seem through correspondence

[michlaw]

Most applicants don't get one on ones with the head of admissions on the day you just happen to show up. They go to probably 30 or more events where you can say hi, or at admitted student weekends, or you can try to set something up in advance. Law school ain't undergrad. When you interview for your first job don't be too disappointed if it isn't the head of the DOJ or other relevant agency who sees you. You can choose Penn but there is really no reason to condemn Michigan. It is unbecoming.

[Tls2016]

Most applicants don't get one on ones with the head of admissions on the day you just happen to show up. They go to probably 30 or more events where you can say hi, or at admitted student weekends, or you can try to set something up in advance. Law school ain't undergrad. When you interview for your first job don't be too disappointed if it isn't the head of the DOJ or other relevant agency who sees you. You can choose Penn but there is really no reason to condemn Michigan. It is unbecoming.

Unbecoming? That's rude. She's just giving her experience.
Many people find Dean Z an extremely tiresome try hard Asha wannabe. I happen to be one of them