The fundamental problem with 0L's. Forum

[rad lulz]

How do people on this site have thousands of posts?

1) write a post
2) hit submit
3) repeat

[blergy]

But why?

[wons]

That's insane. I work at a V10, class of 2010, and our retention (just checked it) is around 75%.

Did you work at Kirkland or Weil?

For situations like life where you're not a repeat player, the expected value isn't as relevant as the modal outcome. The modal outcome is this: you go to UVA for free, get big law, burn out in 3 years, and settle into an in-house job with some money in the bank. Or, you go to Columbia sticker, get big law, burn out in 3 years, and settle into an in-house job with $200k of debt still hanging over your head. There's some differences at the margins, but this is the most likely outcome in each case.

Except there's no evidence that 3 year burn out is the modal outcome in BigLaw, and certainly not from the HYSCCN schools. That's the myth that's essential to the "take the money and run" approach to selecting a school.

I worked at a V10 (left to clerk), and my starting class was probably 75% HYSCCN. Everyone was plotting their exit almost from Day 1. I just perused the bios of the M&A group, and 75% of all the associates are 2010 or later (i.e. just starting their 4th full year).

[TheSpanishMain]

But why?

What about it seems weird/confusing to you?

[bjsesq]

But why?

Because it is fun and I like some of the people here.

[rayiner]

But why?

Because it is fun and I like some of the people here.

TLS megaposters are about 78% more tolerable than your average lawyer.

[bjsesq]

But why?

Because it is fun and I like some of the people here.

TLS megaposters are about 78% more tolerable than your average lawyer.

WE ARE THE 22%

[blink]

But why?

As a 0L who has been on this site longer than most (2010), I've found the megaposters (bk, rayiner, jbagel, worldtraveler, tiago splitter, bj, rad law, knock, romothesavior, pithypike, lavitz, jammasterj, vanwinkle, ycrev, etc etc... I could go on and on and on) to be invaluable resources in my pre-law school research and I'm thankful for their experiences. I know I am far better informed about the reality of the law school situation than most of my 0L peers, largely due to folks who take the time to contribute to this site. It's something I'd like to do more of in the future, to pay it forward. When I first found TLS, I would have done anything just to get into the flagship state school and my target school was Syracuse. This fall, I'm probably headed to T10 with $$, a school that I never would have had a snowball's chance in hell at before. TLS is what you make it. Nice use of your first two posts though. Hopefully, they become more productive/humorous/substantive over time.

[A. Nony Mouse]

For situations like life where you're not a repeat player, the expected value isn't as relevant as the modal outcome. The modal outcome is this: you go to UVA for free, get big law, burn out in 3 years, and settle into an in-house job with some money in the bank. Or, you go to Columbia sticker, get big law, burn out in 3 years, and settle into an in-house job with $200k of debt still hanging over your head. There's some differences at the margins, but this is the most likely outcome in each case.

Except there's no evidence that 3 year burn out is the modal outcome in BigLaw, and certainly not from the HYSCCN schools. That's the myth that's essential to the "take the money and run" approach to selecting a school.

From the stats above, wasn't it something like 37% at 3rd year and half by 5th? That seems like a distinction without a difference for the purposes of this discussion.

[Nelson]

For situations like life where you're not a repeat player, the expected value isn't as relevant as the modal outcome. The modal outcome is this: you go to UVA for free, get big law, burn out in 3 years, and settle into an in-house job with some money in the bank. Or, you go to Columbia sticker, get big law, burn out in 3 years, and settle into an in-house job with $200k of debt still hanging over your head. There's some differences at the margins, but this is the most likely outcome in each case.

UVA for free vs. Columbia at sticker is an easy choice though. The difficult choice is T14 for 200k+ vs. WUSTL-esque school for COL only. Then there's a bigger divide between likely outcomes.

[bjsesq]

But why?

Because it is fun and I like some of the people here.

TLS megaposters are about 78% more tolerable than your average lawyer.

WE ARE THE 22%

I'm really having a good time with how stupid a reply this was.

[Hipster but Athletic]

I also love how incapable certain mega posters are from recognizing that TLS group think does not mirror reality, and that finding a blog post on the same internet that this site exists on with similar content to what is espoused here somehow verifies the whole TLS belief system.

[IAFG]

I also love how incapable certain mega posters are from recognizing that TLS group think does not mirror reality, and that finding a blog post on the same internet that this site exists on with similar content to what is espoused here somehow verifies the whole TLS belief system.

'Lax, brah.

[kaiser]

I also love how incapable certain mega posters are from recognizing that TLS group think does not mirror reality, and that finding a blog post on the same internet that this site exists on with similar content to what is espoused here somehow verifies the whole TLS belief system.

Then show us reality, Morpheus

[Mal Reynolds]

Lax has a combined like 10k+ posts on this site and yet acts like he isn't a product of the site's mentality. It's interesting to watch.

[Hipster but Athletic]

Lax has a combined like 10k+ posts on this site and yet acts like he isn't a product of the site's mentality. It's interesting to watch.

I feel like I have consistently maintained a record of independent thought. Moreover, even if I have been brainwashed by the writers here, isn't it still conceivable that I am able (and uniquely willing) to contrast this (my!?) view of the nature of legal work, the legal market, and law school, from the group at large?

[Mal Reynolds]

Lax has a combined like 10k+ posts on this site and yet acts like he isn't a product of the site's mentality. It's interesting to watch.

I feel like I have consistently maintained a record of independent thought. Moreover, even if I have been brainwashed by the writers here, isn't it still conceivable that I am able (and uniquely willing) to contrast this (my!?) view of the nature of legal work, the legal market, and law school, from the group at large?

Nah

[09042014]

Big law sucks for many reasons which is why nearly everyone hates it:

1) Hours are long
2) Work is not fun
3) People are awful
4) Billable hours are awful
5) Firms are horribly managed
6) People nitpick for no reason
7) It's stressful
it's challenging
9) you have no control over your freetime
10) no job security

Now everyone can "get over" a few of these traits. But I'd argue nobody can get over all of them. The people who thrive are the people who hate themselves. Which is why your senior associates are often psychopaths. They don't enjoy it, they enjoy the pain it causes.

There are definitely some big law jobs that aren't as bad as my list portrays. In fact, I think my job is one of them. My hours aren't too bad, my coworkers are nice and we get along, no body rides my nuts about tinny shit, and I enjoy the work so far. But it's totally fucking random. The woman 3 doors down works for a psychopath who makes her work 7-7 but she still only bills 1700 hours a year.

[Hipster but Athletic]

WORD. Anyways, "the fundamental problem with 0L's" is the douchiest thread title I have seen in a long time, so I just feel like trying to hammer home how douchey this guy must be.

To OP, if you didn't realize this is a douchey thread title, here's one exercise that helps me figure out if a sentence is douchey or not: if the sentence is talking about a group, substitute that group with "black people" and see if you still think it's permissible.

[09042014]

WORD. Anyways, "the fundamental problem with 0L's" is the douchiest thread title I have seen in a long time, so I just feel like trying to hammer home how douchey this guy must be.

To OP, if you didn't realize this is a douchey thread title, here's one exercise that helps me figure out if a sentence is douchey or not: if the sentence is talking about a group, substitute that group with "black people" and see if you still think it's permissible.

Jokes on you, I've heard him say that exact phrase IRL

[dresden doll]

Don't you sorta wonder tho why someone with a stable, well-paying job would tell you not to follow behind them?

Some legal jobs suck. But I think my second aspect contributes to it.

Maybe it does. or maybe private practice actually is that shitty. actually truly so horrible people who have gunned every aspect of their life their whole lives can't even force themselves to keep going in every day to combat their crushing debt.

The truth is, the most miserable, self-hating people are the ones who hang on long enough to become your boss.

Damn, I legit shuddered reading this even though it was no news to me.

[bk1]

To OP, if you didn't realize this is a douchey thread title, here's one exercise that helps me figure out if a sentence is douchey or not: if the sentence is talking about a group, substitute that group with "black people" and see if you still think it's permissible.

I'm actually not surprised you came up with a test to see if things you think up are permissible for you to say in public.

[dresden doll]

WORD. Anyways, "the fundamental problem with 0L's" is the douchiest thread title I have seen in a long time, so I just feel like trying to hammer home how douchey this guy must be.

To OP, if you didn't realize this is a douchey thread title, here's one exercise that helps me figure out if a sentence is douchey or not: if the sentence is talking about a group, substitute that group with "black people" and see if you still think it's permissible.

Jokes on you, I've heard him say that exact phrase IRL

Same.

[rad lulz]

.

[IAFG]

WORD. Anyways, "the fundamental problem with 0L's" is the douchiest thread title I have seen in a long time, so I just feel like trying to hammer home how douchey this guy must be.

To OP, if you didn't realize this is a douchey thread title, here's one exercise that helps me figure out if a sentence is douchey or not: if the sentence is talking about a group, substitute that group with "black people" and see if you still think it's permissible.

Jokes on you, I've heard him say that exact phrase IRL

LOLOLOL

Reasons why I will never be the wife of a federal judge.