Cornell $$$ vs USC/LA $$$ vs NU $$$ vs Berkeley Forum

[Rahviveh]

I'm racist because I think LA sucks? WTF?

I'm from California and I lived in LA for a number of years. I think paying out the ass for basic stuff like bud light and parking is stupid, I think wasting your life in traffic is stupid, and I think dealing with a lot of people who tend to be more rude and superficial than in a lot of other parts of the country (Hell, even of California) is stupid. I think LA is stupid but that has nothing to do with my view on people with a different skin color than me.

Twinkle likes LA so more power to her. Personally I think UCLA/USC is probably get best bet based on all she has said. Although I tend to agree with champagnepapi in regards to young single people getting married to a particular state/region.

its occasionally a sufficient condition, but not a necessary one. clearly I don't think you're racist Zuck. And there are a lot of reasons not to like LA, like the ones you mentioned -- traffic is horrible, and people are not that friendly. I've just met a lot of people in other parts of the country who, although they don't vocalize it day to day, had an implicit problem with heterogeneity, and who had remained in insular communities and predicated their distaste for california on the fact that you cannot go to LA and create a similarly insular, homogeneous population.

I agree with you. Btw where are you headed?

[bizzybone1313]

Very little of what you wrote applies to me. I am socially liberal, love diversity and would love to live an area that is beautiful.

I'm glad to hear it. There are many cool places to live, like the twin cities for example, that have these traits to some degree and where you could be very happy.

Having said all of that, I am just extremely averse to spending 50-75% of my income towards COL and loan payments. I shit on NYC all the time for the exact same reasons. Living in one of the most expensive cities in the world means I would have to work 10+ more years pushing paper. You never get that time back.

there is also a strong correlation between high-cost index regions and high salaries. lafayette, indiana might have much cheaper rents than chicago or LA, but you will make a lot less money doing the same work most of the time.

also these are the most expensive cities in the world:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/0 ... de=2065975

note that none of them are LA or NYC, or even in the united states

I have been to two cities on that list-- Singapore and Oslo-- only Singapore was very impressive. You are cherrypicking data. LA and NYC make many lists of being very expensive. That list only has 10 cities on it. There are many cities in the United States that provide very high incomes but are light on the wallet: Houston, Dallas, Denver, Austin, etc. No one is saying for OP to pick some random POS town and go practice there.

Have fun paying $2,000 for rent. I will pay $500-$750, make loan payments and invest the rest in the stock market.

Maybe LA really is all that. I quite honestly haven't visited. I have been wanting to make a trip to Cali for a long time, but I am afraid of getting in the middle of that whole West Coast vs East Coast beef. I am almost booked a ticket to go see Bone Thugs-N-Harmony's reunion with a live band at Club Nokia. I should have gone.

I have visited Las Vegas and was very impressed. It didn't look like a shithole to me. It probably isn't the best place to raise a family though.

[Rahviveh]

Very little of what you wrote applies to me. I am socially liberal, love diversity and would love to live an area that is beautiful.

I'm glad to hear it. There are many cool places to live, like the twin cities for example, that have these traits to some degree and where you could be very happy.

Having said all of that, I am just extremely averse to spending 50-75% of my income towards COL and loan payments. I shit on NYC all the time for the exact same reasons. Living in one of the most expensive cities in the world means I would have to work 10+ more years pushing paper. You never get that time back.

there is also a strong correlation between high-cost index regions and high salaries. lafayette, indiana might have much cheaper rents than chicago or LA, but you will make a lot less money doing the same work most of the time.

also these are the most expensive cities in the world:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/0 ... de=2065975

note that none of them are LA or NYC, or even in the united states

I have been to two cities on that list-- Singapore and Oslo-- only Singapore was very impressive. You are cherrypicking data. LA and NYC make many lists of being very expensive. That list only has 10 cities on it. There are many cities in the United States that provide very high incomes but are light on the wallet: Houston, Dallas, Denver, Austin, etc. No one is saying for OP to pick some random POS town and go practice there.

Have fun paying $2,000 for rent. I will pay $500-$750, make loan payments and invest the rest in the stock market.

I wish I had legit ties to some of these places. Probably not the south but I would love to settle down in Denver

[bizzybone1313]

Very little of what you wrote applies to me. I am socially liberal, love diversity and would love to live an area that is beautiful.

I'm glad to hear it. There are many cool places to live, like the twin cities for example, that have these traits to some degree and where you could be very happy.

Having said all of that, I am just extremely averse to spending 50-75% of my income towards COL and loan payments. I shit on NYC all the time for the exact same reasons. Living in one of the most expensive cities in the world means I would have to work 10+ more years pushing paper. You never get that time back.

there is also a strong correlation between high-cost index regions and high salaries. lafayette, indiana might have much cheaper rents than chicago or LA, but you will make a lot less money doing the same work most of the time.

also these are the most expensive cities in the world:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/0 ... de=2065975

note that none of them are LA or NYC, or even in the united states

I have been to two cities on that list-- Singapore and Oslo-- only Singapore was very impressive. You are cherrypicking data. LA and NYC make many lists of being very expensive. That list only has 10 cities on it. There are many cities in the United States that provide very high incomes but are light on the wallet: Houston, Dallas, Denver, Austin, etc. No one is saying for OP to pick some random POS town and go practice there.

Have fun paying $2,000 for rent. I will pay $500-$750, make loan payments and invest the rest in the stock market.

I wish I had legit ties to some of these places. Probably not the south but I would love to settle down in Denver

I am from Texas and shouldn't have any trouble getting a job at any of these major cities. Houston is too big and congested; Dallas can be snobby, but overall is a pretty good city; and Austin is probably too small of a city for a lot of people's tastes, but it is Creepin on Ah Come Up and going in the right direction. I wish I had ties to Denver. I would kill to settle down in Denver.

[jbagelboy]

There are many cities in the United States that provide very high incomes but are light on the wallet: Houston, Dallas, Denver, Austin, etc. No one is saying for OP to pick some random POS town and go practice there.

I wish I had legit ties to some of these places. Probably not the south but I would love to settle down in Denver

I liked Denver a lot too when I visited. my boss at my current firm lives there and loves it.

but good luck getting a decent paying legal job in denver with no ties, no offense. I wouldn't bank on my chances either

[Gunnar Stahl]

People talking shit on los angeles and CA just need to get over it. CoL is high because so many people want to live here, because its awesome and beautiful and relaxed compared to the rest of the country, and doesn't have florida's humidity or tackiness. A lot of americans also just 1) trend more socially conservative, which causes them to resent Californians socially liberal ethos, and to put it bluntly 2) are racist, so they don't appreciate the diversity of SoCal culture. The fact that the bar is more difficult is only relevant to a couple dozens of hours of your life at most. And while I definitely wouldn't advise moving to CA if you are expecting to be dependent on state employment or services, if you are upper middle class (Which is what we are all aiming for in becoming service professionals), this has little impact, although I grant that the state could head in some dangerous directions if infrastructure/education go further down the toilet.

[bk1]

BK UCLA is out at that price in your mind (when compared to the other options of course?) What would UCLA have to cost to be the best option here?

I don't think it's out. If somebody would prefer to work in a small firm in CA over biglaw in NYC then I think UCLA/USC makes sense over Cornell.

It appears you can only have two of the the following three:

Low debt, biglaw, CA

So pick the two that are most important and theres your answer

The problem with this logic is that only 1 of these 3 things is guaranteed, the other 2 are probabilities. Around 1/3 or more of Boalt's class doesn't get biglaw in CA. There's also no guarantee of coming back to CA from Cornell/NU. Heck there's also no guarantee of biglaw from Cornell/NU either. Because there is a very realistic chance of not getting biglaw or CA, it makes sense to take the guarantee (minimal debt) that comes from Cornell/UCLA/USC (and some argue NU as well).

FWIW, I don't think you'll have trouble getting back to CA from NU/Cornell. I work in a west coast firm and people are always coming back here from T14 with ties. It's anecdotal, but I believe it to be common practice. LST's state placement is misleading due to self selection IMO

This is really misleading. It is a fact that it is much harder to get CA biglaw than it is to get biglaw in NYC (and maybe even Chicago, though probably not "much" harder). Of course self selection exists, but to ignore how harder it is to get biglaw in CA (look at the callback medians for CA firms at T14s, at least at the T14s I've seen it tends to be around top 1/3).

[twinkletoes16]

Not going to touch the raging CA vs. the rest of the country debate, but I will say that I've lived all over the country (10+ states) and the only other place I would consider living is maaaaybe Dallas/Austin because I have family there.

[Gunnar Stahl]

If you want California and are ok with still not getting biglaw, then probably.

[Lasers]

would probably choose ucla here. if they give you a full ride, take it.

[WokeUpInACar]

would probably choose ucla here. if they give you a full ride, take it.

[wert3813]

That's why I was asking...UCLA often ups offers. At that price I'd take UCLA and call it a day.

[Cobretti]

If you want California and are ok with still not getting biglaw, then probably.

+1

[fluffythepenguin]

I know TLS will probably push back against this, but if you are on a full ride at UCLA, your chances are better than the average student there at getting the grades necessary for biglaw. I'd go there if I were you.

[bk1]

If USC is within 5k or less of UCLA I honestly think it's a toss up between them.

[worldtraveler]

I know TLS will probably push back against this, but if you are on a full ride at UCLA, your chances are better than the average student there at getting the grades necessary for biglaw. I'd go there if I were you.

No, they are not.

OP I would suggest UCLA with money. Sucks that Berkeley won't match the offer, but I doubt they will match that kind of money for many people.

[WokeUpInACar]

I know TLS will probably push back against this, but if you are on a full ride at UCLA, your chances are better than the average student there at getting the grades necessary for biglaw. I'd go there if I were you.

No, they are not.

OP I would suggest UCLA with money. Sucks that Berkeley won't match the offer, but I doubt they will match that kind of money for many people.

You really think people with the numbers for a full ride aren't more LIKELY to get higher grades than the average student???

[untar614]

I know TLS will probably push back against this, but if you are on a full ride at UCLA, your chances are better than the average student there at getting the grades necessary for biglaw. I'd go there if I were you.

No, they are not.

OP I would suggest UCLA with money. Sucks that Berkeley won't match the offer, but I doubt they will match that kind of money for many people.

You really think people with the numbers for a full ride aren't more LIKELY to get higher grades than the average student???

Depends what you mean by that. Statistical significance ≠ practical significance

[bk1]

You really think people with the numbers for a full ride aren't more LIKELY to get higher grades than the average student???

I think worldtraveler is being a bit hyperbolic. Those with stellar numbers are statistically more likely to do better. But the advantage isn't significant and thus not worth factoring into a decision.

[WokeUpInACar]

This is all a gamble here. Everyone is just playing the odds based on job placement v. COA etc... I'd bet that full ride recipients are MUCH less likely to end up below median, and that's just another piece of information to consider when making these calculations.

[Lasers]

If USC is within 5k or less of UCLA I honestly think it's a toss up between them.

yep.

i would say follow the money between the two, but i prefer the smaller class size at usc over ucla.

[bk1]

I'd bet that full ride recipients are MUCH less likely to end up below median

Considering that people with 170 LSATs who are in a school with 75% 160s and below still have a 30% or so chance of being below median, I highly doubt it is "MUCH less" than 50%.

[twinkletoes16]

I gotta say, I like how this thread derailed twice- once to bash on CA and now to argue about always contentious TLS wisdom of being above the median.

[Tom Joad]

I think Cornell is probably the best bet. Maybe USC or UCLA if you are really serious about only wanting CA.

Just curious why NU is winning? Yeah, its placement stats are great, but largely because of work experience, I surmise. To me, the lower T13 are peers and not worth $40,000 for a marginal ranking increase. Also, Cornell probably has the best quality of life of all your choices if you like a chill college town.

[wert3813]

I think Cornell is probably the best bet. Maybe USC or UCLA if you are really serious about only wanting CA.

Just curious why NU is winning? Yeah, its placement stats are great, but largely because of work experience, I surmise. To me, the lower T13 are peers and not worth $40,000 for a marginal ranking increase. Also, Cornell probably has the best quality of life of all your choices if you like a chill college town.

OP has pretty much said she would dread Ithaca because or personal preference. That's probably why.