Boalt v Retake Forum

[bruinfan10]

Good point. I'm done. OP -- I think Boalt is a phenomenal option for you, and unless you think you want to study and try for a mid-to-high 170s LSAT, I think it's about as good as it gets.

If you have questions about Boalt feel free to PM me.

I just have to say, as you're on your way out, I can't believe kids were trying to tell you that Boalt students don't place better in the Bay than other T14 students coming home with ties. I was one of those T14 kids, and I have to say, if I hadn't been top-5%, I would've been worried about my chances of getting back in. My friends at Berkeley have gotten comparable top-flight SAs with much lower class ranks. The fact that you even got attacked on that point speaks to the quality of information in this thread. OP, I really wouldn't bother reading past the first page.

[ssanonymous]

I fully expect it to get lost ITT but I just want to say that I still think TLS overstates how much money one can expect based on numbers. I had a 4.0 171 and got in everywhere that I wasn't YPed (UVA and UM) but the money is not nearly what TLS would expect.

I got 90K from Duke so that the notion that a 171 for OP is going to significantly increase money above the 62K they have for Boalt seems wrong (especially when comparing GPAs).

Well, the OP probably has high need if he or she is getting 21k from Berkeley a year. Assuming his or her income level doesn't change, he or she will get more need based aid from HYS since they only give out need based aid. I believe HYS will make a person with high need take out 120k, but will cover the rest in grants. Right now Berkeley will cost the OP 148k plus summer expenses since Berkeley's summer stipend isn't guaranteed and is only for 4k,

"Isn't guaranteed" = guaranteed, in the case of the summer stipend. You also have a good chance at an additional 1k on that 4k through the Berkeley Law Foundation. But all you have to do is 25 hours in a clinic, which almost every 1L does anyway and is really pretty simple.

Man, Kronk, you're still trying to fend off this 0L shitshow? They refuse to understand that OP has already prepped the hell out of the LSAT and scored about as well as s/he can expect. And as the person above you stated, people with much better numbers than OP (myself included) couldn't extract that kind of phenomenal scholarship from Boalt. This a golden opportunity, and OP, if you're still reading this, you worked hard and got a great result. I'd be ecstatic if I were you.

idk, I don't buy into the LSAT bs that you can only jump 5-10 pts from your original score score. I studied as hard as the OP and jumped 16 points, and I think if I had more time to study and more time to dedicate to the LSAT that I can get 5 more points. I know so many people who decided to study for a year straight to go from the 140s to the 170s. I think it's totally doable. Just depends on how much time you have to study for the exam.

I think OP must have some great softs since he/she got into Berkeley with a 165 and a "low" GPA for Berkeley. I imagine if he/she breaks 170 he/she has a good shot at HYS.

idk, OP, I'm in the same boat. I have no answers for you. Good luck!

[BigZuck]

Good point. I'm done. OP -- I think Boalt is a phenomenal option for you, and unless you think you want to study and try for a mid-to-high 170s LSAT, I think it's about as good as it gets.

If you have questions about Boalt feel free to PM me.

I just have to say, as you're on your way out, I can't believe kids were trying to tell you that Boalt students don't place better in the Bay than other T14s students coming home with ties. I was one of those T14 kids, and I have to say, if I hadn't been top-5%, I would've been worried about my chances of getting back in. My friends at Berkeley have gotten comparable top-flight SAs with much lower class ranks. The fact that you even had to make that argument speaks to the quality of information in this thread. OP, I really wouldn't bother reading past the first page.

What kid said that? Please quote them here.

I think the problem is that you're more interested in fellating the mega-poster than reading the actual thread.

[bruinfan10]

But seriously though Kronk, sounds like you go to Cal. How much better is Cal for California big law than going to another T14 and trying to get back with CA ties? That is really important for this discussion.

Look, I'm not gonna tap on the glass further after this, but seriously man, calm down and recognize you're talking to people who've been through the SF/SV hiring process, and who also understand that when a person's taken the LSAT twice, spent 11 months studying, hired a private tutor, and finally managed to score in the middle of their PT range on the second time around, maybe your cut and paste 0L "retake" advice doesn't make a whole lot of sense in this context. Especially considering people with 175+s often don't get 60k from Boalt.

[Dr. Dre]

I imagine if he/she breaks 170 he/she has a good shot at HYS.

!

[sinfiery]

I imagine if he/she breaks 170 he/she has a good shot at HYS.

!

Unless they have yale worthy softs, I doubt it. 173+, maybe. And the 157 will be a big deal to HYS.

Usually retaking and scoring even 1 point means a huge reward but in this scenario even 6 points could result in a worse cycle for CA biglaw as the goal.

Add on to it how much they've already studied and although you never want to leave a free retake on the table, it isn't that big of a deal to just sign on the dotted line now.

[twinkletoes16]

Good point. I'm done. OP -- I think Boalt is a phenomenal option for you, and unless you think you want to study and try for a mid-to-high 170s LSAT, I think it's about as good as it gets.

If you have questions about Boalt feel free to PM me.

I just have to say, as you're on your way out, I can't believe kids were trying to tell you that Boalt students don't place better in the Bay than other T14 students coming home with ties. I was one of those T14 kids, and I have to say, if I hadn't been top-5%, I would've been worried about my chances of getting back in. My friends at Berkeley have gotten comparable top-flight SAs with much lower class ranks. The fact that you even got attacked on that point speaks to the quality of information in this thread. OP, I really wouldn't bother reading past the first page.

This terrifies me as someone deciding between B with no $ and lower t14s with money.

[Rahviveh]

How does Boalt compare to other non-T14's for LA biglaw? Is it a similar advantage?

[ssanonymous]

I imagine if he/she breaks 170 he/she has a good shot at HYS.

!

Unless they have yale worthy softs, I doubt it. 173+, maybe. And the 157 will be a big deal to HYS.

Usually retaking and scoring even 1 point means a huge reward but in this scenario even 6 points could result in a worse cycle for CA biglaw as the goal.

Add on to it how much they've already studied and although you never want to leave a free retake on the table, it isn't that big of a deal to just sign on the dotted line now.

Fair enough. I'm assuming he/she has Yale worthy softs because he/she says "strong softs." I forgot that OP got an official 157 score, but I thought HYS pick the highest score, no? And I think people make breakthroughs on the LSAT. I did about 60 PTs and I got my best scores towards the end. I bet if I get 60 more I'd have another breakthrough. Depends on how much time you have to give to this test.

[BigZuck]

But seriously though Kronk, sounds like you go to Cal. How much better is Cal for California big law than going to another T14 and trying to get back with CA ties? That is really important for this discussion.

Look, I'm not gonna tap on the glass further after this, but seriously man, calm down and recognize you're talking to people who've been through the SF/SV hiring process, and who also understand that when a person's taken the LSAT twice, spent 11 months studying, hired a private tutor, and finally managed to score in the middle of their PT range on the second time around, maybe your cut and paste 0L "retake" advice doesn't make a whole lot of sense in this context. Especially considering people with 175+s often don't get 60k from Boalt.

How is that me trying to tell Kronk that Berkeley doesn't place better in CA than lower T14s with ties?

I asked him a question, and conceded his point but said that it is important to understand to what degree.

Also my whole point is predicated upon the notion that Berkeley with 60K is not the holy grail of law school admissions outcomes. Especially for someone with a 3.7. Even if they want CA big law above all else. There might be other outcomes that are preferential. Even if they hurt CA big law chances (which they assuredly will) they might not hurt big law chances in general and they might be significantly cheaper, this mitigating the risk of striking out. And I know that's a lot of maybes, there's no way of knowing what might happen if OP doesn't get a higher LSAT score anyway and all I was saying was there is no downside to retaking and seeing what happens. Seems like the OP wants to do that anyway so I was just saying that I think that would be smart.

Or just go to Berkeley. Great school, a little too pricey for me but if you're not as debt averse then it's probably more than acceptable for most people.

Anyway I think all this "breh" condescension and whiteknighting and look how smart I am TLS bullshit is stupid but whatever. I'll stop hijacking the OPs thread, obviously I was way off base with the retake suggestion because a bunch of people who I fully admit are smarter than me said so.

[sinfiery]

Fair enough. I'm assuming he/she has Yale worthy softs because he/she says "strong softs." I forgot that OP got an official 157 score, but I thought HYS pick the highest score, no? And I think people make breakthroughs on the LSAT. I did about 60 PTs and I got my best scores towards the end. I bet if I get 60 more I'd have another breakthrough. Depends on how much time you have to give to this test.

My JS1 asked me about my retake by saying, "So about your [sarcasm]pretty[/sarcasm] significant jump in my LSAT score" which was a 167-->176.

They consider it. It won't sink you, but they definitely consider it.

[bruinfan10]

I just have to say, as you're on your way out, I can't believe kids were trying to tell you that Boalt students don't place better in the Bay than other T14 students coming home with ties. I was one of those T14 kids, and I have to say, if I hadn't been top-5%, I would've been worried about my chances of getting back in. My friends at Berkeley have gotten comparable top-flight SAs with much lower class ranks. The fact that you even got attacked on that point speaks to the quality of information in this thread. OP, I really wouldn't bother reading past the first page.

This terrifies me as someone deciding between B with no $ and lower t14s with money.

Don't get me wrong, I turned down Boalt at sticker to take a half scholarship at another T-14, and with my lifelong CA ties, I was able to break back into SF/SV. If you have ties and you place well in your class, you'll be fine. I was more trying to point out that if you ARE lucky enough to get money from Boalt, and you plan to work in the Bay, you're in a phenomenal situation.

How does Boalt compare to other non-T14's for LA biglaw? Is it a similar advantage?

I don't know too much about Boalt's LA placement since I primarily targeted the Bay - you might try PMing Kronk for his take on this - but Berkeley has a sterling reputation throughout California (in addition to its strong national reputation).

[ssanonymous]

Fair enough. I'm assuming he/she has Yale worthy softs because he/she says "strong softs." I forgot that OP got an official 157 score, but I thought HYS pick the highest score, no? And I think people make breakthroughs on the LSAT. I did about 60 PTs and I got my best scores towards the end. I bet if I get 60 more I'd have another breakthrough. Depends on how much time you have to give to this test.

My JS1 asked me about my retake by saying, "So about your [sarcasm]pretty[/sarcasm] significant jump in my LSAT score" which was a 167-->176.

They consider it. It won't sink you, but they definitely consider it.

Yeah, I remember JS telling us at my school that she's not impressed with score jumps because she assumes the person didn't prepare enough the first time. I think she's off base on that but I don't determine an applicant's fate HLS so it doesn't matter what I think.

[twinkletoes16]

I just have to say, as you're on your way out, I can't believe kids were trying to tell you that Boalt students don't place better in the Bay than other T14 students coming home with ties. I was one of those T14 kids, and I have to say, if I hadn't been top-5%, I would've been worried about my chances of getting back in. My friends at Berkeley have gotten comparable top-flight SAs with much lower class ranks. The fact that you even got attacked on that point speaks to the quality of information in this thread. OP, I really wouldn't bother reading past the first page.

This terrifies me as someone deciding between B with no $ and lower t14s with money.

Don't get me wrong, I turned down Boalt at sticker to take a half scholarship at another T-14, and with my lifelong CA ties, I was able to break back into SF/SV. If you have ties and you place well in your class, you'll be fine. I was more trying to point out that if you ARE lucky enough to get money from Boalt, and you plan to work in the Bay, you're in a phenomenal situation.

I PMed you already, but figure might as well ask everyone (sorry to hijack OP, do not want to necro own thread). My primary concern about going OOS for law school (and as someone that EXCLUSIVELY wants to work in CA after LS) is that I graduated HS in CA, went OOS for UG, then haven't worked in CA since. Some CA threads make it seem like without a lot of CA on the resume, firms don't see "ties" necessarily. Now I've been away from CA for 6-8 years so this is worrying.

[ManoftheHour]

And I know that's a lot of maybes, there's no way of knowing what might happen if OP doesn't get a higher LSAT score anyway and all I was saying was there is no downside to retaking and seeing what happens. Seems like the OP wants to do that anyway so I was just saying that I think that would be smart.

Again, what's wrong with this?! What does OP have to lose? Nothing but a few weeks.

OP said, "PT anywhere between 160 -172."

The point is, OP, IMO, in a great position. If I were him, I'd be ecstatic. However, knowing that I have Berkeley with essentially 60k in my back pocket, I would retake the LSAT this June. I'd have nothing to lose and a whole lot to gain.

[ManoftheHour]

As of now, I plan to attend Berkeley but will retake the LSAT to see if I could improve.

Good luck! You can do it. And if you can't, then Berkeley at that price is awesome.

[Rahviveh]

And I know that's a lot of maybes, there's no way of knowing what might happen if OP doesn't get a higher LSAT score anyway and all I was saying was there is no downside to retaking and seeing what happens. Seems like the OP wants to do that anyway so I was just saying that I think that would be smart.

Again, what's wrong with this?! What does OP have to lose? Nothing but a few weeks.

OP said, "PT anywhere between 160 -172."

The point is, OP, IMO, in a great position. If I were him, I'd be ecstatic. However, knowing that I have Berkeley with essentially 60k in my back pocket, I would retake the LSAT this June. I'd have nothing to lose and a whole lot to gain.

I agree. Its a lot easier, mentally, to retake the LSAT when you are already in a good position.

[worldtraveler]

I just have to say, as you're on your way out, I can't believe kids were trying to tell you that Boalt students don't place better in the Bay than other T14 students coming home with ties. I was one of those T14 kids, and I have to say, if I hadn't been top-5%, I would've been worried about my chances of getting back in. My friends at Berkeley have gotten comparable top-flight SAs with much lower class ranks. The fact that you even got attacked on that point speaks to the quality of information in this thread. OP, I really wouldn't bother reading past the first page.

This terrifies me as someone deciding between B with no $ and lower t14s with money.

Don't get me wrong, I turned down Boalt at sticker to take a half scholarship at another T-14, and with my lifelong CA ties, I was able to break back into SF/SV. If you have ties and you place well in your class, you'll be fine. I was more trying to point out that if you ARE lucky enough to get money from Boalt, and you plan to work in the Bay, you're in a phenomenal situation.

I PMed you already, but figure might as well ask everyone (sorry to hijack OP, do not want to necro own thread). My primary concern about going OOS for law school (and as someone that EXCLUSIVELY wants to work in CA after LS) is that I graduated HS in CA, went OOS for UG, then haven't worked in CA since. Some CA threads make it seem like without a lot of CA on the resume, firms don't see "ties" necessarily. Now I've been away from CA for 6-8 years so this is worrying.

Get a 1L summer job in CA. That is much easier to find and it can show your commitment that you really want to be here.

[Dr. Dre]

OP retake or don't go to law school at all

[ManoftheHour]

OP retake or don't go to law school at all

You don't like Berkeley either? I think it's a good deal.

[Dr. Dre]

OP retake or don't go to law school at all

You don't like Berkeley either? I think it's a good deal.

I like berkeley, but I think it's an OK deal

[jbagelboy]

How does Boalt compare to other non-T14's for LA biglaw? Is it a similar advantage?

interested in this too if anyone has concrete information

[lampshade0520]

idk, I don't buy into the LSAT bs that you can only jump 5-10 pts from your original score score. I studied as hard as the OP and jumped 16 points, and I think if I had more time to study and more time to dedicate to the LSAT that I can get 5 more points. I know so many people who decided to study for a year straight to go from the 140s to the 170s. I think it's totally doable. Just depends on how much time you have to study for the exam.

I think OP must have some great softs since he/she got into Berkeley with a 165 and a "low" GPA for Berkeley. I imagine if he/she breaks 170 he/she has a good shot at HYS.

idk, OP, I'm in the same boat. I have no answers for you. Good luck!

you really think i would? i honestly don't think i can score THAT much better. my first diagnostic was a 139 -_- and for the first few months of studying i plateaued at 155-160. i dedicated a lot to this test. RC is my issue. RC is a skill you acquire over many years and i just miss between 14-6 questions on like every section...

also, my softs aren't thhaaaat hot. not HYS hot. if the 157 is going to keep me out anyway, i dont know...i see everyone's points and i'm still unsure. thanks a lot for everyone's input though. much, much appreciated.